Daughter sleeping in the same bed with father

[mountainlake]

My 9 year old DD visits her dad on Sundays and usually stays there overnight.
She sleeps with him in the same bed.
Now, it was OK when she was 6 or 7 but now I think she is getting too old for that. She looks older than 9 and already is very interested in all that teenage phase stuff, dressing up, make up. I find it just not appropriate to share a bed with a grown up man, even her own dad, when she starts changing into a teenager.
One more reason is the fact that ex sleeps in the same bed / bedding with his OW. When I discovered him cheating last year, I realised that I must have slept in the same bedding at least couple if times and it made me sick. To clarify that: we lived in separate houses then but were very much together, however didn't move back in together as ex didn't start addressing his drinking problem properly, which was my condition for full reconcilliation.
The thought of my child sleeping in the same bed where he f*s OW makes me cringe.
I tried to talk to him, using arguments that she is getting older and does need a separate bed, but he just laughs it off and says he is not going to change anything. He thinks there is nothing wrong with 2 of them sleeping together as she can have daddies cuddles then and that he is her father, not some pervert. He says I am ridiculous and only suggest it because I am still jealous of the OW.
I find it disgusting tbh, the fact that my girl uses the bedding with OWs body liquids... but her getting older and still sleeping with dad is my main concern.
He has a space in the bedroom to put a little sofabed for her. He also has another bedroom but took a lodger now as he needs extra money for his 'travel and entertainment'.
Am I being unreasonable?

[NameChange30]

"She told me recently she is not happy with certain things but doesnt want to make daddy upset!"

This is also a bit of red flag to me, but no one else seems to have picked up on it. OP, what are the things she's unhappy about? How does he react if she says she doesn't like something?

[BastardGoDarkly]

Where did the op say she wasn't sure if he would abuse her?

[ExasperatedAlmostAlways]

My parents split up when I was two and I went to my dad's every weekend and slept in his bed till I was about 12. Then i just stopped myself. I missed him so much during the week and felt safe and protected when I was near him.

I don't see it as a problem and I think the body fluids thing is silly.

[differentnameforthis]

AnotherEmma OP has not mentioned abuse, the possibility of it, nor is she concerned with it, it seems, because she didn't think warranted any drastic action, she just wants her ex to stop sharing a bed.

Others have decided
that his lodger is male (she is female)
that because he has a male lodger, her dd isn't safe sleeping there
because he gets erections, he is going to start abusing her

When I was about 7/8 I saw my step dad naked in the bathroom because the lock on the door didn't work & I walked in...guess what...nothing happened. He didn't start abusing me, I was perfectly safe & my mum didn't feel at any time that I needed to be protected from him, because his penis was aware that I existed.

Yes, men abuse children.
Yes, fathers abuse their children

No, men don't suddenly decide that they need to utilise their morning erection on the nearest female in the room. Again, IF he is going to abuse her, he will do so in spite of the fact that he shares a bed & gets an erection in the morning. Not because of it.

[Pleasemrstweedie]

My very toxic mother used to make me share a bed with my DF on holiday when I was your DD's age, because she wouldn't.

I don't think anything untoward happened, but I hated it.

Based on my own experience, I'd say it's not on.

[ExasperatedAlmostAlways]

Okay just caught up, no she shouldn't be noticing his erection. Its not something I ever noticed. Blood, that is minging.

Time for her own bed for sure! Buy a z bed for her to take.

[differentnameforthis]

And again, his erection in the morning is involuntary & isn't caused by any contact with his daughter, and isn't sexually driven.

Oh & I went camping at 13 with my step dad. I have never been before, my mum & sister were not interested, so we went together. I had a blast. We obviously shared a tent, separate sleeping bags.

You could also look at that and say I was at risk, but I wasn't. Because he was a respectable man, which lots of men are!

[TheStoic]

And again, his erection in the morning is involuntary & isn't caused by any contact with his daughter, and isn't sexually driven.

You know this for a fact...how?

Because he was a respectable man, which lots of men are!

And some are not. With disastrous consequences.

Are you saying the OP has absolutely nothing to worry about, that her daughter will not be abused by her father?

If not, what exactly are you saying? #Notallmen abuse children? Yeah, we know.

But what about the ones that do? Can you tell the difference? I can't. Not until it's too late.

[coconutpie]

Oh my god OP ... There are red flags everywhere here. This is just disgusting. He's getting erections in the bed which his 9 year old daughter notices? There is blood on the sheets from some other woman and your little girl has to sleep in that? Fucking disgusting. It's also a health hazard. Maybe it's because I am a major clean freak, but that is just not acceptable at all. The erection thing is a major safeguarding issue. I would not allow her to have sleepovers there again unless she gets suitable sleeping arrangements and he realises what a disgusting twat he is being.

[Happytuesdays99]

I would like to hear the other sides to this story. The Op's hatred for the OW is clear and I'm not sure it this is driving this post.

[cantmakeme]

If an abuser stopped sharing a bed with the child, it wouldn't stop the abuse.

Anyway. Agree that she needs her own bed, especially as puberty approaches and she feels the need for more privacy.

[Kewcumber]

Ignoring all the hyperbole - this is a simple issue. Your 9 yr old should have a place to sleep of her own at both parents, I'm pretty sure any social worker in this country would agree.

There is nothing particularly alarming about a 9 year old sharing a bed with her father by choice but with no other bed this isn't by choice.

I would position it with your ex as being her being pre-pubescent and needing a bed of her own and some privacy very soon and ask him if perhaps she would have a blow up mattress and borrow one of your duvets.

The fact you are disgusting by his behaviour with OW and that he has sex in the bed with her isn't really relevant to your DD. Presumably you were happy for her to get into your (joint) bed when you'd had sex in it before he left? And lots of children will be aware of their fathers early morning erections - it's really not the end of the world.

Stick with what is relevant to your DD and leave everything else out to be simmered over on your own and on MN.

So she needs a bed and some privacy if chooses to avail herself of it - the rest isn't important.

[Kewcumber]

If you are worried about abuse the best thing you can do with your DD is to talk to her about inappropriate touching and how to tell an adult (any adult) about it and the underwear rule.

Sharing a bed isn't as far as I know a common indicator of abuse but it's worth having the conversation about touching with all children.

[BastardGoDarkly]

So, with that viewpoint Stoic I take it your partner is not allowed to bath your children? Put them to bed? That's crazy.

And yes, men get erections in the morning whether there is someone there or not.

[GudrunBrangwen]

There are plenty of ways in which this man could interact healthily with his daughter, without any thought of sexual inappropriateness crossing anyones mind.

However in the little time he has with her he is choosing to farm her out to neighbours for much of it, and spend the night in the same bed as her. Not, I should add, in separate sleeping bags, which would change the situation markedly IMO.

What does he think he's playing at?

[differentnameforthis]

TheStoic

Once again, because I haven't said it enough....

I am saying that his erection is more than likely the natural phenomenon that occurs for a large % of men in the morning. Google it. It actually starts utero, believe it or not.

That is it quite possibly NOT tied to the fact that his child is in his bed.

That an erection in the morning is not indicative of abuse nor is it the cause of abuse. Men do have control over where they put their penis, and just because it stands erect doesn't mean he is likely to rape his daughter.

That IF he is likely to abuse his daughter it won't suddenly start happening because he gets an erection in the morning, which a large % of men do, naturally, & for non sexual reasons.

It also won't be because he shares a bed with her.

That IF he wants to abuse his daughter, he will do so in spite of sharing a bed & a morning erection.

That OP HAS NOT ONCE mentioned abuse, she HAS NOT ONCE mentioned that she is concerned about abuse.

I am NOT saying he WON'T abuse his daughter. But if the op had concerns re abuse, don't you think she would have mentioned that before now? Instead of saying that this doesn't warrant SS involvement?

I would say it is way OTT to think of SS in this case, surely he is not doing it on purpose That doesn't sound like a mum who is concerned that her ex might potentially abuse his daughter, and I am sure she is more qualified to make that judgement, than you!

[Fannyupcrutch]

My eldest daughter is 17, my son 16, son 11, and daughter 7. Both I and my ex-husband would sleep in a bed with any or all of them if they wanted to! In fact my teenage daughter, my seventeen year old daughter has been having nightmares and has shared a bed with her dad several times over the last few months ( they live together) .

My 2 youngest kids regularly jump in bed with me for cuddles and sometimes all the time I sleep naked. My eldest son wouldn't get into bed with me now and that's fine. My eldest daughter might do and most of the time she too will likely be wearing very little. Her thongs are like lacy pirate eye patches . We have no body shame in this house, that doesn't make it inappropriate or anything else. It makes my piss fizz when people project their own sexual issues and ideals onto innocent, naive children that just need to be children.

[differentnameforthis]

coconutpie Educate yourself. Involuntary erections in the morning are not sexual in nature. It isn't a safeguarding issue at all. Men have erections several times a night, while asleep.

[TheStoic]

I am saying that his erection is more than likely the natural phenomenon that occurs for a large % of men in the morning. Google it. It actually starts utero, believe it or not.

No need for Google, I've been around naked men in the morning once or twice. I was just curious as to how you were so sure you knew the cause of this particular man's erections.

[Battleshiphips2]

My DH wakes up with an erection every morning. It's not sexual and if I touch him he usually says gerrof or I'll pee myself. My 8 yr old ds still gets in bed with us and often asks if he can sleep all night with us not a chance. On the other hand 9 yr old girls are a bit more aware and I would've felt uncomfortable seeing my dads penis at that age never mind a
an erect one! Can't see a problem with sharing a bed though. Maybe ask him to change his sheets before she goes to stay.

[NameChange30]

I'm amazed by some of the responses on this thread. Amazed.

Whatever the cause of the erection, it's still inappropriate for her to see it. Of course if he abused her he could still do so whether or not they share a bed. But this is not the point. The point is the situation is inappropriate and SHE NEEDS HER OWN FUCKING BED.

[differentnameforthis]

Not, I should add, in separate sleeping bags, which would change the situation markedly IMO.

The point being that if my step father was likely to abuse me, it wouldn't have mattered if there was a sleeping bag, or a wall between us. Because the surroundings don't dictate whether abuse is likely to take place. The perpetrator does. If a person is going to abuse someone, they will do it regardless of their sleeping arrangements etc.

It is doing many many men a great disservice to say stupid things that have been trotted out on this thread.

Those of you who seem to think that sharing a bed, and morning erection are automatically "red flags, or causes of, or indicators of abuse" are likely to miss real red flags, because you are so determined to make every action between a father and his daughter/s something to be feared, something that indicates wrong doing. You are looking at what is happening & seeing abuse, because you think it is so obvious, it HAS to be happening! You are not looking at what is subtle, which indicators of abuse often are.

Op hasn't indicated that her daughter was told to keep it a secret, in fact, she appears to talk about it freely, op hasn't indicated that she is concerned about abuse, op did indicate that her daughter was ok with sharing, she hasn't said her daughter is reluctant to go back, stay with her df, becoming withdrawn, moody, hesitant to go, to talk to him, fearing him.

Oh but let's just shout abuse anyway, shall we...and thus as it ever is..the thread is derailed.

Thestoic Are you suggesting his daughter is the cause of his erections? So you do think he is abusing her then?

I can't converse with you any longer, because you are simply not listening.

[differentnameforthis]

Whatever the cause of the erection, it's still inappropriate for her to see it And where has anyone said it is perfectly OK for her to see his erection? I asked how she was seeing it, got no reply.

I share with my daughter, and if dh wakes with an erection he gets out of bed PDQ & it's gone. I would say that she never sees it, because he is pretty discrete...

[TheStoic]

Are you suggesting his daughter is the cause of his erections? So you do think he is abusing her then?

I didn't suggest any cause for his erections. You did.

I have no idea if he is abusing her, or will do so. And neither do you. That is my point.

[NameChange30]

"Whatever the cause of the erection, it's still inappropriate for her to see it And where has anyone said it is perfectly OK for her to see his erection? I asked how she was seeing it, got no reply.

I share with my daughter, and if dh wakes with an erection he gets out of bed PDQ & it's gone. I would say that she never sees it, because he is pretty discrete..."



That's the point, isn't it? Your DH is discreet, this man isn't. Your DH has boundaries, this man doesn't. Does it really matter how the daughter sees her father's erections? The point is that she is forced to share a bed with him and has seen them, we know this because she told her mother. That's all we need to know to be sure that her father does not have appropriate boundaries and should provide a bed for his daughter so they both have privacy and don't have to see any (aroused) body parts they don't want to see!

Argh I feel like a broken record.