He's not a bastard but he's behaved like he is. Confused.

[ComeDownToMe]

DP and I have been together nearly 2 years. We live together and it's great. We get on fantastically, he's witty, engaging, kind, supportive. The sex is amazing and we enjoy each other's company.

It started out as a casual relationship and I had a lot stronger feelings for him than he did me. But we ended up spending a lot more time together and grew a lot closer and our relationship turned serious.

The thing is one of my closest friends recently discovered her DH (now STBXH) was cheating on her and I've seen at first hand how broken she has been. Her ex has been an utter cunt and makes my blood boil.

My DP cheated on his then wife and she slung him out so I know everything I've said about my friend's ex I could equally say about my DP. I didn't feel good about this before but it's even worse now.

Can men really compartmentalise to such a degree they don't think about how much hurt they would cause someone they love.

I will probably be criticised for this and rightly so but I wasn't particularly judgemental on men having affairs before as long as no one got hurt. Now I've seen the hurt it feels a bit different.

I don't think of my DP as a bastard but he's done a lot worse than my friend's ex and I've called my friend's ex every name under the fucking sun.

How do I resolve this in my own mind.

I think after two years, she is beginning to see some things that are challenging her world view and her view of herself, which is very important to her, and actually i think that's the right direction to go in. To develop empathy and self-criticism, without it tipping in to this arrogant masochism, which is really just a sign of the level of esteem she held herself in before and how far she has fallen from it.

I also think the guilt might be more complicated than she thinks it is. If in some part of her she is judging her partner, and even considering leaving him, then she has to deal with the fact that she has destroyed this woman's life for nothing, which is a very hard thing to deal with, and means sometimes people stay in relationships much longer than they should do.

The reason I talk about self-forgiveness is that it clears the mind of all of these self-image issues. If she forgave herself, she may find she doesn't actually want to stay in this relationship long-term, and would be quicker to leave it and work on herself. Or she would work to make the relationship worth all the pain and upheaval. As it is she is stewing in her own rather narcissistic juices. Often forgiving ourselves allows us to see much more clearly what we really want, rather than clouding things with guilt, shame and self-punishment, and means we waste the time of other's less.

Nah. I am clinging to a bit of faith in humanity which says that a real human being wouldn't be dense or cruel enough to post on Mumsnet of all places with her story of stealing a husband and how guilty she feels.

It's come to something when people hope for a troll to restore faith in humanity!

I do like your clear, cogent style of writing though Blood

Aw thank you! Hoax or not, you can only ever hope that someone reading or replying could be helped by something, so maybe nothing's ever really wasted.

Ah I hate to see a woman so taken down by a man, who on the promise of a 'spontaneous' relationship, sinks so low as to say that she was delighted to come home to a tidy house (why did he so conspicuously tidy it...?) and that it makes it all perfect. Did you bring him home some cookies? I so hope you did.

Let's hope whilst you read this you are massaging his feet whilst he feeds you some chocolate.

YY to Blood. There should be an applause emotion.

I remember reading this thread when it first appeared and thinking there was something 'off' now from reading last couple of op's posts I know. Should have realised.

Assuming it is genuine and if not then for the purposes of anyone stupid enough to consider shagging a married man:

'He's not divorced yet so we can't get married' my ex (wrt ow no 2 he had 3 of us on the go at one time which 13 years later she still doesn't know) told her I was sitting on the divorce papers, I wasn't he was. He did this for 2 years. She had a dig at me about my jealousy stopping them getting married once and I put her straight. Papers appeared. He still managed to convince her the divorce took another 2.5 years to complete, fact - divorce was complete 6 months later. He patently didn't want to marry her. I again had to put her straight when she bemoaned how long it took while pregnant with their 2nd. Offered to show her the decree!

'Our sex life is non existent' we were TTC and at it like bunnies, plenty of variety and 'interest' for him so that was bullshit too.

"Classic cheater's script: not only little sex, no cuddles! The poor wee man!" Exactly.

'I tried to fix our marriage but she was having none of it' we went to marriage counselling twice. Both times he sat with arms folded and refused to speak.

'He'd never cheat on me we're different' ex was trying it on with me up to and Inc day before their wedding. Was still shagging ow1 when he got chance till she moved away. He's currently on affair no 3 since they've been together.

I'm not going looking/asking as it would hurt and at this point wouldn't change what happened but I wouldn't be surprised to discover he'd cheated throughout our marriage, I was just blind/stupid/lacked MN at the time!

Oh and 'good fathers' don't cheat on their kids mum!

"And he is bloody not a good father. Who has told you that he is? Good fathers share time and household jobs, prioritise and spend their time and energy with their families. This one - in addition to being is a workaholic - is a serial adulterer: hardly father of the decade he was shagging around."

"She changed when they had kids" EVERYONE DOES! it's part of life.

I can assure you my dd feels very much that her dad cheating was as much a betrayal of her as me. Plus she loves me and knows how hurt I would have been and that bothers her too. I know many children that are of divorced parents and the only thing worse for them is if there was abuse.

"he did do his fair share with the kids..." You can't POSSIBLY know that you've only the word of a very experienced and skilled liar!

"he didn't want to fuck up his kids life" then he should've kept his dick out of other women! Plus gone home instead of shagging other women and put the time and effort he put into shagging other women INTO HIS FAMILY!!

"He put his own physical gratification above the needs of his children because he's a selfish bastard."

"My DP has had issues with his kids and he now has a very strained relationship with his eldest." Which at some point YOU will get the blame for because this guy never takes the blame for anything!

"you happened to be the one he was shagging when he got found out." Let me guess...he moved in with you rather than have to find and pay for a place of his own PLUS you do most of the housework!

Your friend from the first post, if she remains your friend consider yourself very lucky.

"BTW, that feeling you're having, it's guilt"

"I don't have reason to end it with him. I love him and we have a great relationship" 2 years, one of which you were just the bit on the side is nothing! I could do with some cash. Wish I could lay money on him cheating on you the first time you hit a bump in your relationship.

Just had a thought re no divorce yet, I take it you only have his word that wife never knew of other affairs? That there's never been a previous separation/him moving out? Possibility of them getting back together? (Though I hope not for her sake). "we both want to [get married] when it's a tad easier with his family." Means he's already set you up with the 'its not the right time' excuse!

"This means they don't want to know you" "or the other alternative is that the children know it isn't serious hence no point meeting her." "Or he doesn't want them to meet her as he knows it isn't long term"

Plus dad likely to cheat on you too leading to either you dumping him or him dumping you.

"I bet you anything you like that he's looked around and tried it on with others since being in a relationship with you." Yep, Inc the 'ex' wife who really isn't.

"I'd be more worried about him using escorts once he's too old to pull young 20something women." Entirely possible, hope you're using condoms, and even if you are regular sti checks advised, has he ever had one? With all the shagging around he's done it's definitely an issue. Especially as I'm guessing he uses his vasectomy to justify not needing condoms. Actually I'd be REALLY surprised if he isn't a regular user of escorts already.

Oh and YOU DON'T GET TO CRITICISE HIS WIFE! the comments about noseing at his phone and she should have talked to him are WAY out of order!

"He's self employed and doesn't pay himself too much because he's trying to hide his assets from his wife now it looks like she might divorce him" exactly! Especially as given the length of the marriage she will probably be entitled to spousal maintenance. "He's not tried to screw her over" then why has he still got the same amount of money coming in as before? Doesn't literally add up!

"Has he by any chance said or implied things about financially grasping women / exes?" Wouldn't be surprised.

Another reason you with your higher pay is convenient in case he does get caught out and ends up skint! "He had no intention of leaving her."!!

How old is youngest? Is he paying maintenance? From him having same income as before split that would be a no.

"I don't need std checks as he was careful" OH MY GOD!! you really are very naive. Even condoms don't 100% protect, they don't protect at all re herpes, you've only got the word of and I repeat an EXPERIENCED LIAR, who may well have slept with more women than he's admitted to possibly escorts too. You're so deluded you're willing to risk your health, fertility (you've still not answered if you want kids) even your life!

"Surely no one is this clueless unless they are 13?" That's insulting to many 13 yr olds I know who would be stunned at this level of ignorance!

The sex is 'mind blowing' BECAUSE he is extremely experienced with many women! "I don't expect the sex to dwindle" I'll health? Menopause?

There is at least some justice insofar as he has to worry about you cheating as much as you need to worry about him, in fact he needs to worry more as you're younger and presumably physically attractive as mm are so keen to bed you (yet not so keen to actually be with you?). He also needs to be concerned about you passing an sti onto him.

As for
"it's a bit hard to stomach being called a cunt." Don't be one then!

"Not all OW are the heartless bitches you all portray us as" no, but I would wager most of us feel that this is unlikely to be true of someone who's admittedly had several affairs! My ex's current wife was very young, naive and had a very sheltered upbringing. Doesn't mean I think she's innocent but certainly not heartless. Ow 1 on the other hand who was supposedly a friend (to me and wife 2) who I babysat for, did favours, lent money etc yes!

"how I live with what we have done." Because you don't have a choice. You can't change it whether you stay with him or not. Your choices now are:

Stay with him and accept there's an extremely high chance he'll cheat on you the first time you have a major disagreement/illness/suffer a bereavement/stress/work or money worries/drop in sex drive (in other words real life happens) or leave and not give him the chance.

Get an sti test and insist he does too plus use condoms to REDUCE (it won't eliminate) the risk of catching one in the future or accept his likely lie that he's 'been careful' and accept the possibility of not making it to 60 yourself.

Accept not having children (I don't believe you don't want children as you've mainly avoided this issue.) Or leave and have kids with someone else. I don't think he wants more children and as he's had a vasectomy you can't even trick him.

Accept not only you're his housekeeper now but will be his carer in the future with little to no appreciation or leave for someone younger and/or less selfish.

Accept having to be extremely circumspect wrt your finances, marry him to secure them, tie everything including possible future house purchase up tightly legally and hope legal changes don't land you in it, also hope you don't end up supporting him in retirement or subsidising his maintenance payments or leave and be independent or with someone more trustworthy.

Accept his kids will never like or trust you and will probably not want you in his grandchildren's lives or leave and not have to deal with this.

"perhaps you can tell me how I can make things easier for his family because I don't know how to." Bit disingenuous of you, but -

Stay out of decisions regarding his kids or the finances relating to them excepting making it clear a decent father pays a decent maintenance without question.

Don't criticise their mum or feed his criticism of her, if possible get this across to him not to do either.

Accept that they will probably never respect you and don't expect them to.

Guessing you're fairly close in age to his eldest

I think you should also research the following:
Limerence
Cognitive dissonance
Denial
Sti rates in promiscous men over 50
Sti rates with and without condom use

And get therapy.

"I have had sleepless nights as a result of the guilt." And how many sleepless nights have you caused? Not only to wives but children?

OP, I've read up to page 13, but need to post this.

My DP and I have not had sex for various health reasons for the past two and a half years, but we are still intimate and affectionate with each other. I have a far higher sex drive than he does, but I cannot ever comprehend cheating on him. My DP has kept our house clean and tidy through my cancer treatment. My parents divorced because my father cheated on my mother, and tried to convince her she was going mad by hiding things from her.

TBH, your DP sounds like one of my ex's that I dated in my 20's. If be is, all I can say is run away as fast and as far as you can. You think that you can change them, but you can't - I couldn't, and neither could the thousands of women who thought they could either.

OP - Listen to Bacon who is sensible about what to expect if you stay and how you can avoid making it any worse than it already is & Blood who is very fair and compassionate towards you. You may need to go through some pain if you genuinely want to come out of this a better & healthier person than the one who went into it.

"marriage is more than the 2 partners and I think he looked at the bigger picture."

No he did not. He did not give his wife a choice. We only live once and he has stolen over a decade of her life by making her live a lie. He presented himself to her as a faithful loving husband. He chose that the family shpuld stay together whole she was being deceived. She had no such choice.

As we get older, committed couples settle in for looking after each other in old age. His wife has been left single and may not find someone she loves in time for old age. She may spend her time in old age alone, and this will be partly because of your actions and her H's.

If he had been honest with her she would have had more time to recover, start over and find someone to be happy with. You and him have stolen so much from her.

You are are being shockingly naive.

The fact that he can spin you the line "she changed after having kids" shows just how unworldly you are. Everyone changes after having kids. It's tough. Decent men step up.

Fucking about but not leaving has nothing to do with any honorable intentions to do with keeping his family together (although he may tell himself that).

His poor wife deserved to have a choice about who she spends her life with.

The more I read posted by you OP the more I wonder if you have some kind of personality disorder.

... or you're here to cause mischief of some sort

... or you're writing your first book

Because what you're describing, and the inability to take on board what people are saying here, isn't quite normal.

Where I will criticise him if he does anything to warrant it. I meant I would listen to him and not just criticise him. He kept minor things from his ex cos she would criticise him when it wasn't necessary. I don't want him to keep things from me because he won't like my reaction.

I think I am reaching the conclusion living with the guilt is my penance. There is some truth in your suggestion I am returning to the thread to get a kicking cos I feel I need to be punished if you like. I have found some of the posts, such as yours, helpful and thought provoking.

Blood I tend to have a somewhat split personality. I can be selfish in some areas (as clearly shown) but I am very selfless in others. I hate organising things and prefer to follow but at work I want the workforce under me to do things my way.

I have never considered myself a Narc and I am not comfortable with a tag such as it. You have made me think about myself and the type of person I am. It is not what I would have aspired to be.

You say an unhappy relationship does not cause infidelity. I accept there has to be something in a persons personality to cause them to cheat even if the relationship is not good.

Your penance has likely not even begin really. This is a man who can't hack it when things get tough, when you need him.most he may well start to detach, to look for an uncomplicated, enthusiastic sex partner somewhere else. If you are still in love with him it will hurt like hell and you will come out of it very hurt,.more than you can imagine right now. Your self esteem will likely take a massive knock and you won't know who you are for some time.

When the scales start to drop from your eyes and you realise the this man stole some of your best years, including the chance to start a family of your own, then you will realise the guilt you feel now is a mere trifle compared to the pain this man is capable of dishing out to people those he supposedly loves.

Those of us who have seen a bit more life than you can see this unfolding. The more you protest, the more naive you show yourself to be.

The best thing you can do for yourself is get away from this man. Then the guilt will stop. And you will never have to know the pain he dishes out. If you stay you are a fool.

I am not a troll, the consequences of my behaviour are all too real for me with all the pain I have contributed to.

Deep down I know my DP cheating had nothing to do with him being unhappy with his wife. I do believe he was not happy but he cheated cos he wanted to and he thought he was entitled to and he thought he would get away with cheating on her.

It is easier for me to consider he cheated cos he was not happy and if he is happy he will not cheat. If I think he is a fucking bastard who will screw any woman who says yes then it will leave me with a lot of insecurity.

Therefore I am choosing to accept his version of events. I do genuinely believe our relationship is great and I hope he has learnt from fucking his life up.

We will either have a great life together or he will do to me what he did to his wife which will of course serve me right.

Frankly seeing my friend in so much pain is karma for me. Living with it and seeing it and knowing I have contributed to inflicting that pain on another woman.

I may come to rue not leaving him but I will always wonder what might have been if I leave now as we are happy. We both had the opinion it is better to regret something you do than something you didn't.

Hating organising things and preferring to follow are not selfless traits. They are signs of a lack of responsibility, lack of caring for a group over the individual and only wanting to be involved when you are fully in control and otherwise being passive. Preferring to follow when it suits you is what you are doing in your relationship. You will leave when it is no longer beneficial to you. In exactly the way you project onto him staying as long as he is 'happy'. You have a misunderstanding of the inevitability of the waxing and waning of happiness in life generally. And I think you find it hard to imagine that others might genuinely live in a way where they are not always guided by their own natural self-interest and happiness.

Your personality is not particularly split by the looks of things. Everyone is a mixture of qualities, some of which seem contradictory. I'm sure you have many positive qualities too, they're unlikely to be on show here, though you seem to listen and be thoughtful and non-judgemental of others. What you are is narcissistic (I'm using that in a conversational way, not a diagnostic way, in that you present as extremely self-centred, quite arrogant cloaked in masochism, controlling and have struggled with a level of real true compassion and empathy I would consider natural. this just from your writing style as well as actions.) This isn't pathological or even villainous, it's just a bit immature and I think this is a great opportunity for you to grow. I'm disappointed you don't seem to have already decided on therapy as a start. I don't know how old you are but I'm assuming you're under 35 from the level of maturity. I hope so and genuinely wish you well.

Now take the copious energies you're pouring into fingering yourself (in every sense) here and pour it into charity or community work or anything else actually selfless where you can begin working through the guilt you claim to irritatedly feel.

We both had the opinion it is better to regret something you do than something you didn't.

Because saying that gets you both off the 'hook'. His wife might well regret ever meeting him (other than having her children).

He kept minor things from his ex cos she would criticise him when it wasn't necessary.

So his casual relationship with the truth is also her fault?

And he won't lie to you because you are so special.

Arf

My word OP. I can't put into words that you would understand the emotions I have just been through but I will try anyway.

I logged into MN earlier and saw I had a PM from a poster who advised me to look at this thread. I have mainly flicked through it for now due to it's length, but I have read all of your posts.

I realised very quickly why it was suggested I read your thread as your "D"P and circumstances are very similar to my own circumstances. You didn't mention you were the OW in your OP but it was blatant when you didn't deny it straightaway and from the sickly gushing way you write.

I was, therefore, reading your posts thinking you might be the insert insult of choice woman who has had such a hand in destroying my happy marriage and life. Such is the similarity my threads detailing my devastation of finding out about my ex being unfaithful have been mentioned several times.

I actually thought "it is her" and I felt sick reading your posts bragging about your oh so bloody wonderful life together and your "mind blowing" sex life. Have you any idea what I felt reading that thinking it was the pair of you.

I then panicked that you might read my threads and if it was you and you told my ex all hell would break loose.

I read your posts quite desperately hoping you would say anything about your situation that was not the same as mine. And.then.you.did. You looked at my thread and said it couldn't be you as our situations were similar but not the same.

When I read it wasn't you do you know what I did? I burst into tears with relief that I wasn't reading your version of your grubby little affair and your oh so perfect life.

But there is some woman out there who in theory could read this and feel the utter horror I did reading it because you have still destroyed your "D"P's wife regardless.

I have no sympathy for you whatsoever. Your "D"P IS a bastard and you are no better. I am pleased you feel guilty but if you felt real guilt you would have ended your affair. I think you are trying to kid yourself that you can still pretend you are a decent person if you feel guilty. It does not make you a decent person. A decent person is defined by their actions and yours are about as low as they can go.

iwashappy . This person isn't worth your energy if they respond to you, they really aren't because I highly suspect they will continue their dulsion and self absorption and try to justify again. I would hope not but suspect so.

I think they're enjoying their delusion because it's the only reality it is that they can cling to without seeing all the truth in your words and realise they have saddled themselves with a scummy loser and acted like one themself.

“Delusion detests focus and romance provides the veil.”

Thank you Starks I just wanted the OP to have some idea of how her "D"P's wife might feel not that it will make any difference

As you say it will just be the usual selfish self justification. I don't wish to engage with the actual OW in my own situation so I certainly won't be engaging further with this one!

She is certainly kidding herself in believing all the nonsense he has told her and it is very clear from her posts that she has no idea of the reality of bringing up children while still trying to do the housework and work as well.

And she's never going to. He's had the snip and she's deluding herself if she thinks a man heading towards 60 would entertain getting it reversed. Not that he'll ever say that, of course. It'll be all procrastination "maybe next year" "when we can afford it". Lie after lie.

She'll believe it of course. Its just not the right time, she'll say. We've talked about it. We want things to get a bit more settled....blahdeblahdelusion.

But silver lining - never having kids leaves more room for all the sexysexysex!!