Husband playing mind games - please help

[Samantha28]

Back story - 6 months ago, H announced out of the blue that he was leaving ( married 15 years , 3 kids ) . He told me he'd found a house and wanted me to sign documents that released money from a business we both own to buy it .

I was in state of shock , came on MN. Everyone said " agree to nothing until you've spoke to lawyer . I assumed there was OW but couldn't find any evidence and Dh denied it .

Lawyer said - don't agree to anything, try to keep everything stable for the kids , get him to wait for a couple of months until teenager sits exams ( well she said a lot more but that's the relevant bit ) .

Dh agreed to wait a few months , he moved into the spare room under a pretext for kids and we are in the process of selling the business we own jointly . This will give me enough money to buy him out of the house and to afford to live here without his income .

Teenager finishes exams in the summer and Dh suddenly announces that he wants to stay and " try to make it work " . I'm a bit shocked and don't know what I want . I assumed he had been dumped by OW. So talked to a counsellor and decided to give it a few months to see what happens.

Dh does nothing different , just goes on living in the spare room and leading his own life. Only difference from 6 months ago is that he does his share of child taxi duties ( which as very onerous are our kids do a lot and we live in the country ) . He does NOTHING that I would think of as " trying to make the marriage work " .

He has given every appearance of having OW. Has gone on a diet and lost weight . Started exercising . Talking about getting an op to fix his bald spot . Has had several operations on his eyes so he " doesn't have to wear glasses in bed " .

Last night he informed me that there never was anyone else - it's all just " a game " to shock me into realising how hard life would be without him .

I am just incandescent with rage . He's put me through 6 months of pretending he wants to leave , believing that our marriage is over , trying to sell the business . Worrying about the kids, seeing a counsellor and lawyer AS A GAME ??? a fucking game ????

What the hell do I do now ?

[BolshierAryaStark]

I am quite simply amazed that you wish to attempt to 'fix' your marriage to this cunt, why on earth would you?!

[NanaNina]

I'm not sure OP does want to fix the marriage. I think that was several months ago. And "self sabotaging" yourself - FFS! Attila I always see you on these threads and others who are intent on getting the woman to leave the bloke. Yes in many cases it's the right thing to do but all we know is a few lines of text on a screen and so none of us (in my view) are in a position to make definitive statements about what someone should do.

I can't help but wonder if there is a lot of projection in these posts.

FWIW OP I hope you can make the break with DH as he doesn't seem able to make you happy, but at the end of the day it's your decision.

[summerwinterton]

Getting someone to leave a bloke - well he has already emotionally left, so that is a bit of a moot point don't you think?

[BolshierAryaStark]

Nana OP posted yesterday to say she'd like to at least try & fix it...
& I don't think there is a more apt response than LTB on this one. Staying through shit for the kids or because you meant your vows is foolish, more so with a slippery fucker like this particular man sounds.

[Dipankrispaneven]

I must say, I'm wondering if he has some sort of social communication disorder, his behaviour seems utterly illogical and he seems to be totally lacking in any capacity for empathy.

I get it that you can't do much till the business is sold, but if you manage that in the near future then if I were you I wouldn't hold off starting divorce proceedings any longer. I suspect that a large element of your teenager's stress arises out of the horrible atmosphere at home, and s/he would probably feel a whole lot better if that is removed.

[Samantha28]

I must say, I'm wondering if he has some sort of social communication disorder, his behaviour seems utterly illogical and he seems to be totally lacking in any capacity for empathy

I've thought long and hard about this comment . Because I can see its completely right. No one with the slightest bit of emotional intelligence would actually believe that is how you fix a broken marriage .

Obviously someone doesn't just develop these issues aged 50, so either he's had them all along and I've not noticed them or he's faking them .

I think he's faking . This is why it all feels unreal , he's acting like a completely different person . It's like he's been abducted by aliens and they've replaced him with someone who looks like him but acts like someone else . I can't think how else to explain it .

He has a history here - he's spent years faking " memory problems " ( which only affected his family responsibilities and never his work or his social life ).

Twenty years ago , when he was married to his ex, he told his GP he was suicidal and he admitted him to hospital. Of course , he soon discovered that this wasn't any fun and he didn't know enough to fool the staff. So he was discharged after two weeks and miraculously cured .

I now realise that this was an attempt to manipulate his ex, who was cheating on him at the time , and later left to be with her affair partner . She wouldn't even visit him in hospital . I used to think she was a heartless bitch, now I realise she wasn't colluding in his games .

My SD spent years faking mental illness . Which only affected her studies ( so she got extra time and money for her disability ) and not her social life and then was instantly cured when she got a job in which it would have been a disadvantage . Then it started again when she used it to manipulate her partner but it was cured when she had a new partner who had no time for it. She has two separate GPs under two names to facilitate this - one to write medical reports etc and one to prescribe the meds. She had to stop for a while because they wanted blood tests and they would have shown up that she wasn't taking the meds.

So anyway, back to husband . I think I'm being gaslighted - this is what is making me so confused . I'm listening to his words " I want to fix this " and looking at his actions " I don't give a flying fuck about you " and it makes no sense .

So I feel guilty wanting him to leave when he's supposedly trying so hard to fix it . So either he's stalling for time , so that he can leave when he wants . Or when OW is ready .

Or he's trying to keep the status quo, which suits him .

Thanks for letting me use this thread to think this all through . Your comments have been so helpful , even those I don't like ;-)

[DuchessofAnkh]

I would be very tempted to get a tracker on his car just to work out if the OW is real to give you more cards to play with when the time comes!

[Samantha28]

I've not been able to find any proof of OW, he's very smart with the technology . He could easily have another phone and other email accounts , he's not daft enough to do anything dodgy on home PC, work phone etc .

I only found out about last OW because we all worked together and she put things on her work email .

Lawyer says I easily have enough evidence to divorce him for unreasonable behaviour, so I've not put a lot of effort into finding out about OW. I know this seems weird , I see from threads here that finding out about OW is very very important most wives , I don't know why I don't really care now ,I wonder if I'm normal ?

Anyway , I know a lot of information about work that he wouldn't like in the public domain. Basically I have evidence of dishonesty and he's in a career where this matters a lot. So he wouldn't like a divorce to go to court, it's in his interest to agree.

So think I have a reasonable prospect of a fair financial settlement . What I won't get is ongoing maintenance for the kids , he will be able to manipulate his declared income by going self employed . So I've only got one shot at it . I've probably got another 15 years before the youngest child finishes education, I want to be able to put them all through university ( if that's what they want ) .

He's very clever, very manipulative , completely ruthless and obsessed by looking as if he's in the right.

[mummytime]

I've not put a lot of effort into finding out about OW. I know this seems weird , I see from threads here that finding out about OW is very very important most wives , I don't know why I don't really care now ,I wonder if I'm normal ? **
I think this is more a sign that you'v already checked out. In fact an OW could be useful if she puts him under time pressure.

I think you need to make a list of the things you have over him and use them to get him to get out of your life. Threatening him with evidence of his dishonesty could help keep him on track for selling. And you have enough to divorce him anyway.
Just stop doing his laundry.

[FredaMayor]

He's very clever, very manipulative , completely ruthless and obsessed by looking as if he's in the right.

If that's the case then his ego could be his weak point. He will be seeking validation somewhere from someone, not necessarily an OW. My own experience taught me to always stay one step ahead of such a person, which is not too hard when they are convinced of their own righteousness. Very pleased to hear you are lawyered up.

Btw, I too have experience of pretence of mental ill-health running down the generations - maybe they learn the strategy at their mother's/father's knee?

[Muldjewangk]

Not sure if another pp has suggested this but I like the idea of your h keeing the business and you getting the house as your share and split any other assets you have.

[springydaffs]

I asked how this was fixing our marriage and he said before he could love me , he had to love himself

This guy is a complete joke. He's bat shit. He has an enormous love affair with himself and he is besotted.

Something is influencing him - whether it's an OW (poor woman) or some kind of philosophy/credo - book?. He's getting his ideas from somewhere. .. Or am I falling into the trap of thinking he is too thick to come up with this himself? Have I got it right that he got himself admitted to hospital claiming he was suicidal but it was all a con? Fuck. In. Hell. Batshit!

Somethings got to give. It's all very well wanting to come out with everything you deserve but life, especially life with a con artist, doesn't often go like that. I'd start preparing yourself to lose some big stuff. Not fair, certainly, but I can see him dragging this on for years.

I mean it: look at the big stuff and be prepared to lose at least some of it - or you're like the monkey with its hand stuck in a jar bcs it won't let go of the nut. NOT bcs you're greedy but bcs he's the big fat Buddha baby taking up all the space and you're all squashed to the edges. The kids are suffering, no doubt about that

[Samantha28]

Springy - the hospital admission was years before I met him . His first marriage was on the rocks , his wife was having an affair , though I'm not sure if he knew at the time . He was depressed and he told his GP he was suicidal . I'm not sure if he was doing it to con the GP or just because he's a hypochondriac and a drama queen . Anyway the Gp had him admitted .

I think he saw it as a way to put pressure on his wife , to make her feel guilty / sorry for him . And it worked to some extent because she didn't leave him for quite a while after that . He then had a couple of years of psychotherapy .

He's a bit of a drama queen . about five years ago he told me that he thought he was depressed again. So we went through a list of symptoms and he admitted he had none . He had decided that he was depressed because sometimes he feels a bit tired mid afternoon . He seemed genuinely suprised when I said most people feel that and they have a coffee / biscuit.

He also thought he was depressed because that sometimes he feels a bit fed up, whereas other people feel happy all the time. Which made me realised that he's never actually had clinical depression , which is nothing like "feeling a bit fed up sometimes " .

I'm very interested to see that freda has experienced a similar thing. After I had written it down it looked so weird . I was expecting someone to call me a troll . Which I'm not, I'm a very long term MN who is name changing Because the details are very identifiable and I don't want this linked to all my other posts.

[middleeasternpromise]

I think Samantha you know well enough you can't change him and this protracted period of increased selfish behaviour and withdrawal made you focus on the relationship where previously you might have been ignoring the fact that your needs were not met. I do think you have to make a decision for yourself - are you out now no matter what? It feels like you are undecided but in a 80:20 way. This is going to cause you ongoing confusion because he throws you the odd bone - 'I'm trying' and it rocks you. The fact that he has a therapist 'on staff' is a problem for you - he admits he's lying to her but in fact he's probably telling the story of a life you wouldn't recognise if you knew. The therapist will be unwittingly arming him with strategies for managing your relationship based on what she's being told about you - that on its own would take a lot of energy for you to manage.

Personally OW or just being a pig wouldn't matter to me I would be deciding if this behaviour had crossed to a level of no return. Of course in that you will re-evaluate the whole relationship with a different eye - that is painful as you can feel a fool and wonder how you let it happen. Try not to spend too much time on this - the reflection is needed but can detract from the energy you have to give to navigating day to day life. The joint business is the worst kind of nightmare as it intertwines everything - for many facing the prospect of divorce/separation work can at least be a retreat. You have nowhere apart from those days he works away.

Even the most acrimonious splits can settle into a respectful working relationship if you don't engage with the bitterness - however that only comes once all the loose ends are tied up and joint aspects completely severed. Children are affected either way - living with parents who are miserable; dealing with parents who are no longer together - its how you make those situations work that makes the difference.

It feels like you are holding out for the business to sell to help you make a decision - you may feel less conflicted if you make that decision for yourself and then you can decide how you manage the outcome depending on the different options. When I was going through this I just pictured a time in the future when this conflict would no longer be part of my life - no time frame attached (but I did see it before I needed a walking frame).

I am there now but I am also 9 years on and even on my toughest personal days the peace I have compared to the stress of the life you describe, always comforts me that I definitely don't have anything to be miserable about.

[sakura]

I had to respond to your first world problems comment, because it minimizes your suffering. I see that "first world problem" meme used a lot in the context of telling women they don't have it as bad as other women... Elsewhere... Somewhere...

The murders you talk of are end of a continuum of all the domestic abuse that women around the world have to deal with. Being white or rich does not preclude you from experiencing life as a woman or being treated badly precisely because you are a woman.

Take your suffering seriously, it is real.

And finally, plenty of third world women would have kicked your husband to the kerb by now. He'd be out of their hut.

[Intheprocess]

Samantha28,

You have to get this guy out of your life as much as possible. You need to be living on this planet and not the one he inhabits!

Have you considered going on strike? It seems to me that your H is quite happy where he is - he has access to his kids whenever it suits him, doesn't have to take on the sole responsibility of house ownership, doesn't have to be solely responsible for his income and has someone on hand to bail him out if he's ill or his car breaks down etc. Yet he still has his own life and can look for a new relationship. Leaving a relationship which isn't working means giving up the good as well as the bad, and he has clearly not done this. You need to light a fire under him and the only way you can do that is to threaten the one thing he relies upon you for - the business.

Give him a deadline and simply tell him that if the business is not sold by then you're going to down tools permanently. You'll still be getting your share of the income because it's still 50% your business and so he can't sack you! The mortgage is still in his name too, so he needs to keep up payments even if you stop paying your share. If the business can't survive without you, all the better. He's using the fact that you are tied to him through the business as a way of manipulating you, but that tie is a double-edged sword and you can use it to your advantage.

[Samantha28]

Thank you for your comments, I'm feeling very emotional and I'm so grateful for them, I'm so touched by the kindness of strangers who take time out on Christmas Day to support me

It's been very stressful here, I'm walking on egg shells trying to keep Dh happy so he doesn't ruin the day for the children . Having DSD here has actually helped , because he won't be vile in front of her . She's been on her very best behaviour and now I feel guilty for posting that she is hard work

So he not been actively nasty , although he got annoyed when the main course of dinner was slow ( roast potatoes took an age ) and when I asked him to put two plates on the table he said " if you want the plates on the table do it yourself " ( that was my mistake because I spoke to him when there was no one else in the room ) .

Apart from that he's not spoken to me , except when DSD is in the room he starts this fake " oh what a lovely meal , the soup was delicious , I hope there's more left " which I find very hard to deal with .

As middle eastern promise said , I am looking forward to next Christmas when it will just be me and the kids , with no unpleasantness and constant stress

[lorelei9]

OP, I think you need to push on with divorce, you are wasting life of this idiot and it sounds like the children will be better off too.

I don't see why it would affect the sale of your business. In fact, if it's a good business turning a profit, then saying you want to divorce and start fresh would the reason you were selling a profitable business IYSWIM?

[Samantha28]

Update - Boxing Day was much better as H took the kids ( big and small) to the cinema, so I had peace and quite to think .

Ive gone back through the thread and written down things people have said that really jumped out at me, so I can work out why that is (hope that makes sense) . I'm very grateful for all your comments and advice, I can't tell you how much it helps to have an outside perspective .

[Samantha28]

Also grown up step daughter has decided to stay for a few more days . Normally I would find this stressful but this time it's actually helpful as it makes H behave so much better .

I could feel him drawing me daggers when she asked if it was convenient to stay longer and I smiled sweetly and said that would be lovely , how much we enjoyed having her ( she stays in another country so we don't get to see her very often ) . I suspect he wants to go off to see OW to a work emergency , which he can't do when she's here . Such a shame. Which means he will disppear as soon as she leaves and I will get peace

[LynetteScavo]

Wow! I might be able to forgive him having an OW but I couldn't live with him doing that. He'd have to go to show him I could manage perfectly fine, thank you.

[NettleTea]

ou ant him to sell the business for 2 reasons. firstly so you dont have to work for him. Secondly so that you can buy his share of the house.

so can you offset the house and business - give him the whole business and he signs over the house to you. I know you said the business is worth more than the house, but thats only if you have a buyer. And chances that he will destroy it anyway. Surely a quick and simple split, even if you feel you should have had 'more' is worth it just to be out of this mess.

Your skills sound transferable, you should be able to find work. He sounds as if he is the one with the specific skill set, peculiar to his line of work. You have the potential, by the sound of it, to take any business idea and make it work - Im guessing you are the brains and he is the one with the 'idea'. You created the business for him, because he has no business acumen at all.

[Siolence]

Sounds like he has been on Red Pill forums on Reddit. You may want to look into those to see if you agree.

[Samantha28]

That's right nettle, I have always found working with him quite stressful and it's a lot worse now .

Sadly I can't trade off the house and the business. Even if we didn't sell the business at all , and just closed the company down today, there is more in it than his half of the house .

We have the cash in the bank ( that we need for cash flow) and the work in progress ( WIP) which is the work we have done and invoiced for , but not been paid . And the work we've done but not invoiced . Does that make sense ?

We can't take all that money out , as we need it to trade . Small businesses like ours used to be able to borrow easily from the bank, but these days are gone .its too risky, they can just pull the plug on you .

So we need that money to pay wages at the end of the January , bills, VAT is due soon and we have to pay HMRC even if we've not been paid ourselves.

We have exactly the same problem as anyone who has a small family business and wants to retire . It's not just that they need to find someone else , perhaps a family member , to run it . They need to find some way of getting their money out too .

I'm sorry, I know this is very boring .

Dh does have a very specific skill set , he's very good at what he does. I don't think I'm the brains, it's just I'm prepared to do more of the tedious background stuff. Not because I like it, because I hate most of it but just because it needs done . Whereas he avoids anything that he doesn't like .

In parenting terms , I take the kids to the dentist, make them tidy their rooms and do their homework . He goes to school prize giving and the football match when his child scores the wining goal.

[Twinklestein]

Do not give him the whole business! You have to sell it, I think you need to focus on getting that through asap. It's very difficult to get money out of family businesses.

Personally if I were buying it, the fact that you are divorcing would be irrelevant as I'd fire your husband anyway.

But even if you divorce first and stay in the house you still have to get rid of the business to be shot of him.

Could you sell your half? Although it will be a struggle to find anyone who'd want to go into business with him tbh.