Who gets the snip?

[feministwithtitsin]

Hi ladies (and gents)

Me and my DH have just had our 2 DC. We are both still relatively young (I am 30, DH is 29). We have both decided that 2 children is enough for us, our family is complete. I want to retrain and focus on my career in a year or so, and, although my DH probably would like more children, we have decided that 2 is enough as we would be better financially, and I would keep my sanity!

I have had 2 caesareans, the first was a nightmare as I had an infection and the recovery time was a nightmare (5 days in hospital, alot of pain etc) the second was textbook.

As we are both young, neither of us would be looking to get the snip for at least another 5 years, just to be 100% sure, as by that time out fertility would have dropped and I think it would be too disruptive to my career, and life in general, to be having a newborn after that.

So for the next 5 years, I will be on some kind of hormone contraceptive, as condoms are too much of a pain.

The question is who should get the snip? I think my DH should as I have had 2 caseareans already and the op itself is easier, he thinks I should because the risks of vascetomies scare him (long term ball pain etc)

So, mumsnet jury! What is your verdict

Most men get this procedure done without enough knowledge about the common permanent problems. Had we both known this I would have refused. It was sold tome like a trip to the dentist and no more than a little bruising. Longterm problems were denied. That same GP is still, three years after me, still telling blokes it's a walk in the park.

Pain aside this surgery has left me impotent without injections.

I no longer support any surgery for contraception. I went for it as female surgery is more invasive. If GPs told you the risks you won't find many couples wanting to take the risk.

I suggest you check out patient.co.uk, nhs choices and vasectomy pain.org. It's full of unhappy fellas after being fed miss information

Would you want to risk your sex life and marram with a 1 in 10 risk of pain.

It's shocking thefuzz. Even NHS suggest that 20% of men will end up with chronic pain.
It's no risk worth taking.

The NHS have updated the figures since the cat is out of the bag. I have a copy of a report from the British Society of Urologists that says upto 30% suffer chronic long term pain.

I got the report from a Urology Consultant. It's not available to Jo public.

So here we all are merrily popping in to the GP for a quick op being told it's all ok.

I think not. There is no cure for the pain. Once the cut is made the line is crossed.

Look fuzz, I already know about it. I have a number of doctors in the family. The thing is that if that is your issue it is for a different thread. This is not a thread about the NHS giving poor information so that men and women are not able to make an informed choice.

It's a thread about discussing contraception which has been derailed because some people assert that any discussion with a man about vasectomy equals pressure.

That simply should not be true if a man behaves like an adult in the relationship.

It is relevant though. Should adults not be making an informed choice about these procedues?
some people assert that any discussion with a man about vasectomy equals pressure. No one is asserting that.

On my second op I was told it's 50/50 whether it works or not. I was also told I could lose the testicle, hence why they wouldn't do both. It didn't make much difference to the pain and I ended up with extra scar tissue. But the Urologist told me and 50 50 was better than nothing. We haven't bothered to operate on the second.

It was touch and go with the first op and I ended up back in A&E with severe pain and swelling. My Urologist did call me at home having heard I'd been in and arranged an ultrasound.

My GP did nothing when I ended up in A&E a few days after the snip with a tennis ball or two. I even had to pay private for an ultrasound to check they hadn't atrophied You get no aftercare from the snip

Well yes it would be relevant if people were not aware of the risks. People have not said there are no risks on this thread.

And yes, people have said talking about vasectomy is pressure. The op is proposing/is talking about sterilisation (including vasectomy) and is being told she is pressuring him.

But I don't think people are aware of the risks. Thefuzz has outlined this at length. There are others on this thread considering vasectomy in their relationship- and you think it's not relevant?
I think if this thread has done nothing else it has made some people aware that vasectomy is no light undertaking.

Having a "number of doctors in your family" does not make you an expert I'm afraid.
Medical knowledge is not an osmotic process.

I never said I was an expert. I never advocated vasectomy either. I simply said I am aware of the risks and why I am aware of the risks.

Many people are not aware, yes, but we may as well have a discussion about all of the poor care women get from the NHS in pregnancy and how risks of female contraception are never explained to them/their partner's.

It is not relevant to whether the op is allowed to discuss things with her partner beyond - 'make sure you both read up about and understand the risks of all your options' if we get into the fine detail of everyone's personal experiences with poor outcomes of all the different types of contraceptives available perhaps that would be useful to the op, I don't know, I think she and he partner are not asking for help assessing the risks of all different forms of contraception or for anecdotal evidence of bad experiences either...

People may not be aware of your experience the fuzz but that says nothing about whether or not they are aware of the risks.

Personal experiences of what it is like to live with the consequences when things go wrong can be really valuable. I'm just struggling to see why mentioning the op's experiences of childbirth with complications are pressure but personal experience of vasectomy with complications are not - I know that's not what you personally said.

I had it done 23 years ago aged 32. DH did not want the snip but was happy to use condoms. I thought this too much of a pain and also as I got pregnant just by looking at DH thought the risks over a 20 year period too great!

Never regretted it.

This is for the OP!
I've skim read some of the post on here but just wanted to tell you what happened with us;

After our second we decided it was time to do something different about contraception. My DW didn't want to take the pill anymore, we definitely didn't want anymore children so we looked into sterilisation.
As others have said on here the procedure alone is far easier to carry out on a man so that's the route we took.
Having said that it took me about 2 years to go to the doctor and get referred. Not because I was scared, I'm a typical guy and couldn't be arsed to go to the doctor. I eventually ended up in the surgery for another reason and asked him to refer me then.
I had no idea about any risks, didn't research them, just went for it!
I barely felt a thing, had no stiches and was back riding a motorbike 3 days later. On the day it felt like I'd taken a football in the nuts but nothing a couple of pain killers didn't solve. Other than that there were no problems.

So my advice, get it done and don't look back

"I'm a typical guy and couldn't be arsed to go to the doctor. "

I'm curious - was your DW still going in for pill checks etc at this time or were you using condoms?

I do wonder if one of the reasons women are on average more engaged with the healthcare profession is the fact that their contraception largely requires fairly regular contact with an HCP and also things like cervical smears kick off regularly in early adulthood as well.

fuzz we are aware of the risks. My.DH has been reading forums etc where men have terrible.experiences. We are not being flippant about it.

drew thanks for sharing your experience and all other posters who have positive and not so positive experiences.

Can we PLEASE move past the pressuring thing. Its boring, has been mulled over a million times, and simply not relevant.

four NFP is not for me. May work well for you, but it is not reliable enough for me and too much of a faff. I am not religious, i couldnt deal with the worry of maybe being pregnant etc.

feminist, we read about the risks too, that is all you can do. Inform yourself and find someone who you have confidence in to do the procedure.

I almost died with one of my miscarriages, remnants of a missed miscarriage became stuck in my cervix and I almost bled to death. That was a risk too (sort of in the same dept in my book)!

Obviously things can go wrong, all of the men in my family over 40 have had vasectomies, all 100% fine including DH.

I did NFP for a few years ... at the time when I couldn't decide if I ever wanted to go through the (what was in my case) horror and illness of pregnancy again, worked fine for three years until I became pregnant, which we didn't mind at all.

You sound like you know what is right for you (and more importantly what is not right for you).

100% fine track record of vascectomies in my family too. As I say, DH had his three weeks ago, drove home and we had sex within 48. He didn't even have any post-op pain.

There are risks associated - nobody but nobody is denying that. But there are risks associated with everything fertility related, and obviously fatal risks associated with childbirth.

NFP has been duly suggested and I think we can let that one lie now. It is not a solution for the vast majority of couples who are 100% sure they do not want any more children, but who wish to continue with an active sex life that includes PIV.

And I'm still slightly gob-smacked that a list of contraceptive choices were presented as 'risk-free' for a couple that does not want any more children. I actually think that's irresponsible.

With PVPS I suppose all I've got to look forward to is being traded in for a working model. Who wants to live with a fella that doesn't feel like sex for the next 40 or 50 years due to pain and drug side effects.

Just waiting for the boot really. No wonder my pain specialist warned me.

On the scrap heap.

FWIW I went to my GP this morning and discussed sterilisation (for me) and she rightly pointed out that with a general anaesthetic it is still an operation, so although keyhole, it isn't a simple procedure and carries its own risks of infection, perforated bowel etc.

Her point was that although vasectomy carries a risk, female sterilisation is not a risk free alternative, just because it's unlikely to cause sexual problems - it can still cause a whole host of other complications, as with any serious medical procedure.

She has convinced me to try the copper coil instead - can't remember if you had tried/considered that OP? I was adamant that I didn't want any hormonal contraception, so it limits my options somewhat. I will let you know how it goes!

If that doesn't suit then she said she can refer me for sterilisation, but that she needs special funding permission, as the NHS consider it a low priority, due to all the other (marvellous!) contraceptive methods available (including vasectomy), so it might not even be as simple as you two deciding between you, it might not be an option.

And Fuzz, that is not meant in any way to diminish your experiences, that is every couple's worst nightmare when deciding on these things, but it's just another viewpoint, that actually female sterilisation can also have horrible complications, even death I suppose, from the GA.

I always assumed I'd have the snip. After all that's what men do after you've had all the kids you want right? (I agree that there are general expectations in society but not that it's always down to the woman. Before having children, yes, I would say that it is expected for the woman to 'take responsibility' but when you've had kids then it's 'the man's turn'. Both of these attitudes are wrong, obviously.)

So I looked into it and was pretty shocked that a surgical procedure with such high failure rates is done as casually as it is. And no I don't mean failure as in the chance of still falling pregnant, but any procedure which is medically not necessary but ends up with long term pain and other consequences should be regarded as a failed procedure. 10% chance of chronic long term pain, potential impotence and increased risk of cancer? No thanks.

About 11 of my friends want DH to take their husbands down the pub and convince them to do it too.

All well and good except that the chances are 1 or 2 of them will then have a lifetime of pain as a result.

Of course all things have risks associated. I am aware that the coil (for instance) doesn't get on with everyone, but long term side affects are much much rarer. It is not a case of whining to refuse to have a vasectomy. If it was 1 in a 1000 I'd get it done tomorrow.

At least you had a GP that discussed it. I got 'oh its that time is it' then referred. The GP that referred me won't have it done himself.

I don't think surgery for either is acceptable.

Another 50 years to look forward to with excruciating pain and a wife who is going to be more and more pissed of.

I'd kill for a decent nights sleep.

Vasectomy is cheap. You can get it privately for £300 so I guess it's £200 a shot for NHS referral. Shame the drugs I am now on are costing over £1k a year to the NHS.

I am really surprised that the level if issues with vasectomy hasn't led to greater research into a male pill. Maybe one day the prototypes will come to market.

If you actually think how the male reproductive system works then a pill is going to be difficult. The only way to stop sperm production is to stop testosterone production. Testosterone production is stopped by introducing artificial testosterone. Then you open the flood gates to T abuse. T tablets don't work as the T is destroyed by the stomach.