DD has hit DH

[SpeccyBat]

DD is 9 and whilst being a sweet and caring kid, she's developing a pretty volatile temper. She gets frustrated and impatient easily, hates being in trouble and doesn't handle it well. Her temper recently is more explosive. Last night, she tried to take a bit out of DH's food - he was ravenous, she had eaten already, she'd asked, he said no and she still tried to take a bite. I think she assumed he'd laugh it off but he exploded. She was hurt and rushed out of the room. On returning my he called her a 'prat', several times, she responded that she wasn't a prat and I could see her temper rising. He said it again and she snapped, stormed over to him and thumped him as hard as she could in the small of his back, then legged it.

I felt pretty useless in the whole sorry situation - I could see it escalating and felt powerless to help. I got her upstairs into bedtime mode and when she calmed (albeit not much) I calmly told her that what she had done was totally unacceptable and that I would be thinking of a consequence ASAP. She went to bed angrily. DH is hurt and upset, but I really, really resent the way he calls her a prat. He also says things like "you're a nasty girl" repeated ad infinitum when they've had a ding-dong and I have asked him time and time again to not do this.

I feel that DH is partly to blame for provoking here somewhat. I'm far from perfect, but I try and avoid escalating any situation with DD whilst he seems to have to goad her. I foresee a terrible relationship between them in her teens if things continue as they are.

She adores his company at times - they share the same interests - cycling, gardening and it's as if she cannot handle any disapproval from him.

How do I handle this situation - I've barely slept and I don't want this to be a pattern we fall into. DH has been known to accuse me of taking sides and always backing DD up, but when he calls here these names, he's making it virtually impossible for me not to support her.

Please advise.

There are two entirely separately themes being conflated by some people here: disciplining children effectively to teach them right from wrong & adults behaving like abusive bullies.

Yeah OP disappeared.
Annoying

No wonder the op has disappeared. She knows the situation better then anybody and she probably finds it hard to see her family under the microscope.

Those who have commented that the child wouldn't have hit had she not been goaded.. ridiculous. So when she grows up and has any sort of disputes is it acceptable to hit?! She's 9 not 3. I suspect a lot of women on here are looking at this one sided as per. Funny really as it wasn't long ago a lady posted a out her son been a man child and abusive to her, he was 18 and she was told to throw him out. So when this girl is 18 is violence suddenly unacceptable. Or is it just women projecting their own history onto the little girl and fortune telling that she will end up like them in the future, hence the not so impartial judgements. Would you tell a woman that it's ok her husband hit her because she goaded him into it with words. Violence in my opinion is never acceptable. We must protect our children emotionally but we must also nurture them into learning how to conduct themselves and respect others.

My parents emotionally abused me at times, I never once hit them as I was terrified of the consequences. This isn't a scared child, it's a child who lacks boundaries or respect and an adult father who escalates it all rather then teaching her right from wrong

OP could be back on here in her lunch break, or be in a different time zone.

Bloody hell, some people do have a life outside of MN you know!

just not me

Her father is a bully, how dare he call her repeatedly a prat and how dare you as her mother not stand up for your flesh and blood.

I bet all her problems would fade if she was not learning from her father. Poor girl but she is a product of her upbringing. She will never forget any of this op and she will remember all of this.

a 9 year old is still learning to deal with there feelings her dad was 100% to blame

Op I'm afraid you need to do something - anything - to improve things. Could you show him this thread? Explain in words of one syllable how his behaviour affects dd?

I had a dreadful relationship with my dad. He was always at work (shift work where, even though he was scheduled for 1 weekend off a month, he always worked overtime). When we did see him it was his way or the high way. He was verbally and physically threatening. I knew if he got angry I'd have bruises. I didn't love or respect him, I feared him.

Towards he end of my time at "home", I'd come home from the pub, bit tipsy (as teens often do) and he jumped up off his chair and went for me. I was feeling brave, and I kicked him hard in the face, with trainers on. To say he was shocked was an understatement. For me it was a culmination of all the years of hurting and I was at the end of my rope and I couldn't take any more.

He never touched me again. He realises now how his behaviour affected me and broke down in tears when, at 28, I had a panic, shook and cried as I thought he was going to hit me (he was angry at himself for something he did). But the relationship didn't improve until I'd moved out. Now he has his first grandchild (ds) I think he realises just what he missed out on. But his time as a dad to a little girl is gone - I'm 32.

So to get to the point of my post.

9 is very young for dd to come to the end of her rope and lash out. It is also a hell of a long time before she potentially moves out and the relationship may or may not improve.

She is mirroring his behaviour. If he wants to have a poor relationship with his dd then he is the one missing out - he will never get this time back. But please, please support your dd, protect her and explain to DH why this is so utterly unacceptable. Because I can tell you from experience, if things don't change then there will be a hell of a lot of resentment and fear in the coming years.

Don't forget the rules of mumsnet: women and/ or poor people can yell, shriek, swear and otherwise bawl out their kids and you Must Not Judge unless you Walk a Mile in Their Shoes.

But when a man says prat it's abusive.

I gave my DS hell yesterday for nicking my food, he's four and he knows he isn't allowed to do it. I want to raise a considerate child not an entitled pain in the arse. Also I was pissed off, which I've noticed women are mainly allowed to be. DS was all over me like a rash afterwards as he always is, our bond is unbreakable and we always kiss and make up.

Lock me up, huh.

" We must protect our children emotionally but we must also nurture them into learning how to conduct themselves and respect others". The best way to do this is by example. Showing not telling. Providing a model of values & applying them consistently. The original scenario posted has been a complete failure in respect of this. The evidence is the OP's own words & description of what happened, not projection or speculation.

Well this child was also given hell for stealing food & she hit her father - not considerate behaviour. What do you suggest would unlock decent behaviour? Shouting louder?

None of us are experts - if any parent here can tell me the magic words that get my four year old to be polite and well behaved then I'm all ears.

I'm muddling though the same as everybody else. I do know that if you start a thread about a child showing bad manners, rudeness or other negative behaviour then everybody will tell you to nip it in the bud, they wouldn't put up with it, you need to take control etc.

Yes Morris but 'exploding' and calling a child names is not the way to do it.

Exactly. Habitual name calling by a parent of a child is the opposite of taking control.

No not shouting louder. I prefer to parent with showing my child how to respect others and I don't feel shouting is respectful. If my child had taken my food yes I'd be cross with them and complain, as that's not acceptable. I always try guide my children by teaching them empathy.. so in that situation id have first explained that I was hungry and it was my food, if they are still hungry they can eat some fruit and when apt I always try to teach my children to remember how they would feel if it was somebody else acting that way to them etc. Do I always get it right, no. At times I've raised my voice, probably vented a bit too much. Only last week my son threatened his friend with a sharp object as she was goading him and he got very angry. Totally out of character for him but should I have dismissed it as he was goaded by another child? Absolutely not. I explained that violence is not acceptable and he could have got in serious trouble had he hurt her. He wasn't going to, he was trying to control the situation with threats. I then explained that if a friend ever bullies him to tell me and il send them home as it's not how friends treat each other. However he was grounded as his reaction was dangerous. A good parentime doesn't always take your side, a child doesn't always know right from wrong and we must show them the way.. not sugar coat violence!

In this case the husband was doing the bullying and goading.

Posters are pointing out that this type of shit parenting has psychological consequences for children and their behaviour.

The big issue here as far as I can see is that the daughter has recently developed a temper and is volatile.
This should be investigated and the root cause found. Is she anxious? Being picked on at school? Not yet learned emotional regulation and reacting inappropriately to negative feelings? Feels she is not loved? Being bullied at school? Starting puberty and feeling out of control?

This particular incident won't have helped her deal with her feelings. The father handled this badly so my guess would be she isn't getting much guidance in dealing with negative emotions for a start.

If the OP comes back I hope she talks to her DD in a non angry way to get to the bottom of the temper thing.

Lol, yes I prefer the respectful, no shouting model too. What a shame my four year old fails to change his behaviour in the face of my polite explanations!

Of course kids learn by example, and I try my best to be respectful in all my actions etc, to show him how to behave. But when the bad behaviour is manifesting itself already I find an explanation does feck all to stop him. I don't always have the option of removing him, and he's big enough to fight back if I try. Not a good look - wrestling in public.

So like most mothers I have a good yell. My mum did it. My sister does it. If you start a thread you'll find countless other women yell in their houses, and support each others right to do so. After all, kids do drive you mad.

I think it's just a shame that this does not seem to extend to fathers - the slightest raised voice from them can be seen as harmful or even abusive.

Perhaps it is abusive, I'm not privy to the background. But I do know that if I express my horror or disgust at hearing a young mum on a bus telling her kids to shut the fuck up, I'll be accused of pearl clutching, snobbery, and being judgemental.

But prat is unacceptable.

I don't agree Morris. If a woman came on here and said:

'My 9yr dd hit me. I reacted by calling her a prat several times. In previous arguments, I have repeatedly told her she is a nasty girl.

I think my DH would like to say something, but I am quite intimidating and he will just keep quiet to keep the peace'

she would be told, I'm sure, that that style of parenting is shit.

Where IS the OP?

OP - if you are real there, your H is CREATING the issues your child is exhibiting. Her not liking being told off, her volatile temper and lack of boundaries and barriers. Because he is not respecting her, nor you.

The ONLY thing you should have said to her was that HITTING someone is wrong, and there was no excuse for it. NONE whatsoever.

It is not right that she ask/demand/pester your H for some of his food, but it is kind of usual with kids of that age. a strong and final NO is enough, you should have repeated it to her to back up your H.

That said, the namecalling is so wrong it's untrue. it has to stop now, this second and no, you will NEVER support him in what he is doing to your dd. I suggest you speak up and make it clear that name calling doesn't happen in this house, and that if you can't speak to each other with respect, to keep quiet until you can.

I would also tell your H that he stops this shitty parenting right now and that you will undermine him every single time he calls your DD names.

I meant to add. Your OH deliberately goaded her into reacting, you know it, he knows it and she even knows it, but is only 9 so has very limited ability to prevent herself from falling into his trap.

I have never seen anyone defending a mother telling her kids to shut the fuck up on a bus. What I have seen is posters describing the dodgy behaviour of a parent they've seen in public and other posters saying "you don't know what's going on there." Which is true - if you see a parent once, in public, you don't know what's going on. However, the OP knows exactly what's going on here. She knows exactly what her DD did, which was annoying but not exactly world-endingly bad, she knows her DH exploded, she knows her DH called her DD a prat and has in the past called her a nasty girl. With all of that background it seems like the situation has got out of control, some properly shit parenting is going on and something needs to change.

All parents lose their rag now and again. Good parents try to learn from it and change and they apologise for being heavy handed. Bad parents keep doing the same thing over and over and justify it in some way, which seems to be what's happening here.

star I don't believe words are harmful - grow a backbone if you get hurt by words.

Words in the form of blatant or insidious insults do wear people down in all sorts of ways. Especially if habitual, and uttered within an unequal power dynamic.