I am interested in advice especially from men

[midlifehope]

I have a problem in that I feel I am pulling the weight of 2 people in my family. I have ds aged 3 and am pregnant. I work 3-4 days a week. Ds is in nursery or with dp when I work. However I also end up doing 95% of domestic stuff. Dp doesn't work having
recently taken voluntary redundancy and bought a yacht! He has way more leisure time than me and I am feeling incredibly resentful. Howdo I get him to change. I don't want to ltb Jesuits

Everybody's own situation is different depending on work pattern and other caring responsibilities

There is a simple formula

If you are in a relationship with children, each partner's leisure time (that doesn't still entail keeping one eye on the kids while reading a book, for example) should be equal

it is is as simple as that

It's never been an issue with me and dh. We do what needs doing. We don't have set jobs, we just both get on with it. We have equal leisure time.

I don't require any more personal hygiene than him either. We both shower daily.

Is your DP particularly smelly OP?

As others said, both partners should get equal free time. It's ok if one has more than the other, but not if it creates resentment. And each should have some free time, if they want to.

Furthermore, if one is at work, and the other isn't, then they should cover the household chores in the same proportion.

The last part may not be clear.
If one partner works for 8 hours, then the other should take up 8 hours of household chores (either at the same time, or different times), and split the remaining time.

Out of interest, Lweji, when you say "work" do you feel it's the same deal with sahp? Only it can be perceived as quite hard to separate when you're working and when you're 'having fun', especially when you see girls sitting around chatting in coffee shops. Is that work because they have toddlers ad babies with them, or is it time out because they're sitting down and enjoying a social.

I'm not talking about sahp with school age children because that's an entirely different situation in my mind.

That's a good question. If I'm seeing mates and just taking the children out because they happen to be with me, I would not consider that much work (depending on how much child care is actually involved), but if going out with the children only for their benefit, and meeting other parents there as a coincidence, then I'd consider that mostly child care (the social and coffee part being similar to what happens at the workplace).

I don't think it's in anyone's interest to split hairs about an hour in the park with mates and children, though. The same question could be asked about business lunches and dinners.

You could make the same argument about any job that someone enjoys.
I think that the fact that you may enjoy part of your job I.e. having coffee with friends doesn't stop the fact that you are still on call.
You are still responsible for the children and therefore still 'working'.
You are teaching them social skills, how to behave out of the house, changing nappies, feeding them, providing comfort when they inevitably hurt themselves.
It's no different from having a team lunch where you can't be totally relaxed.
For me free time is being free to spend time doing what you want.

X posted

When I was in your position with my ex I gave him some options

1. Up his game and contribute 100% more
2. Leave and live in his own mess
3. Pay for a cleaner and gardener to come weekly out of his money, but still load dishwasher and out washing out when needed .

He chose 3 and having a cleaner and someone to keep the garden tidy helped massively. But with hindsight his lack of wanting to put personal effort in around the house was another sign he was checking out of the relationship.
So you could ask hi to pay for a cleaner which may help you workload wise but maybe not help your marriage overall.

Rather than try to measure 'work', it's better to measure 'free time'. Which means completely free to chose what you do, free from childcare responsibilities.

I was hoping that would be the response, as I struggle with caring for 2 small children as well as doing the housework at the same time. There are days when I can get away with it, and days when everything I do gets undone just as fast.

I put a pile of washing at the top of the stairs and it gets strewn around the floors so it has to be gathered up again.

2 year old decides to do antics on the stairs while I attempt to carry washing downstairs, resulting in washing getting ditched (again) for the safety of the child.

Items get loaded into machine and as I reach into the cupboard for washing powder, the machine gets emptied out.

Everything gets reloaded and I swiftly place the ball in the drum and slam the door shut. Oops, forgot the colour catcher. Back to cupboard. Meanwhile, door is open and washing is back on the floor, now with a cleaning up job as the liquid ball is now spilled over on to the floor.

Eventually everything assembled into the machine and switched on. Meanwhile, toddler is quietly busy posting clean socks down the toilet.

And that's before trying to change beds, vacuum, dust, put clean clothes away or hang them out on the line to dry!

Then people have the cheek to suggest I had plenty of time to clean the house from top to bottom, at my leisure, all day

I swear I didn't work this hard when I was doing full time 12 hour hospital shifts!

I'm just catching up with this thread. Captainproton has summarised this very effectively at 7.59 page 6:

society has conditioned men to believe women do this stuff naturally, that we even enjoy it. And I think some women buy into that too. So sad really because I suspect boys who grow up believing this rubbish are going to find it hard in future relationships to maintain happy and equal marriages, and possibly have more chance of divorce as more and more girls grow up not standing for this shit.

I remember having this discussion with my DP when he complained bitterly that he didn't enjoy cleaning the floor and all this housework shit and I said 'neither do, who does, I hate it' He actually looked shocked, like it had never occurred to him. Many men, do believe, deep down, that housework is what women do, and that it emasculates them.

DIY / Gardening - these are not repetitive mundane chores and are mostly enjoyable and rewarding! My DP does the majority of these. I do all the sewing and mending and 'homemaking' in our home.

OP, you have to sit down with him and discuss this. His behaviour is akin to having three children at home once the baby arrives.

As for leisure time, very little in this house as I am a childminder and have young two children and no family help at all ever so it is relentless. I go out maybe once a month, might have an afternoon to myself once a month and take a whole day out including evening every 4/6 months.

Regarding household chores, none are really difficult for most people, just repetitive and dull. I enjoy cooking so do most of the family meals, and when it comes to the ironing I usually put on a dvd or time it so that I can watch football - goes by fairly pleasantly!

It's all about finding a balance that everyone is happy with and keeps everything ticking over, with the understanding that you have to be flexible. The OP clearly doesn't have this and her partner is excusing himself and undermining their family life.

society has conditioned men to believe women do this stuff naturally, that we even enjoy it. And I think some women buy into that too. So sad really because I suspect boys who grow up believing this rubbish are going to find it hard in future relationships to maintain happy and equal marriages, and possibly have more chance of divorce as more and more girls grow up not standing for this shit.

It's hard for boys to grow up like this if their mothers expect better. It's best in a family if everyone pitches in. Very young children can help with lots of simple jobs and teenagers can do everything that adults can do, except drive the car. Don't let boys slack off just because they're boys. Teach them to look after themselves and others and to do it properly and they will be fine when they have their own adult relationships.

After all OP, where did your DP get his attitude from? Probably from a mother that did everything for him and his father. Break the cycle.

I think it is attitude rather than example - my father worked a very physically demanding job, not 9 to 5, so my mum did the largest share if housework. But despite not having a constant example of an ironing, hoovering dad, we did not grow up with the attitude that housework was automatically 'women's work'.

Rather, we grew up with a work ethic that told us that if work needed doing, and you could reasonably do it, you didn't shrug and leave it to someone else. Most men around us worked very physical jobs, so most women did the housework, yet we learned to share this when we had families of our own.

Blimey, who'd have thought that a relatively innocent question would have provoked such a diatribe of All Men Are Bastards (Apart From My Husband, Obviously) comments...

you haven't been around MN much, have you?

Although I haven't actually seen it claimed that all men are bastards.

I lurk a lot and post occasionally.

I paraphrase the 'All Men Are Bastards' quote, but not much. I'm going to regret saying this, but there are - dare I say it - some real men haters on here. Yes, I understand that you may have a pretty dim view of men if you've been in an abusive relationship or your husband/ex-husband is a complete and utter lazy arsehole or had an affair. But we're not all like that. The majority of us are actually nice guys and good husbands and fathers. Yeah, we occasionally forget (or can't be arsed) to empty the dishwasher or leave dirty socks on the floor. That doesn't make us ALL arseholes. 'Leave The Bastard' seems to be a pretty standard piece of advice on here....

Sits back and awaits torrent of abuse about what a sexist pig/complete arsehole I am etc etc

Barry if you want attention start your own thread.

I've not met any poster on here who hates men despite some women having had appalling experiences. We know the majority of men are nice guys, we're married to nice guys, work with them, are related to them.

Some women are married to cunts and they come on her asking for advice.

The message on this thread is actually Some Men Don't Pull Their Weight And You Weren't Put On Earth To Be a Skivvy.

If you are of the immature and frankly paranoid disposition that leads you to infer that women who criticise some male behaviour means they hate men, then I'd suggest you grow up or bugger off, whichever's easier.

Yep, like I said...there are some men haters here...

Not men haters, Barry, just people who dislike twats.

Who always seem to be men. Funny that.

Are you the ops dh?

A considerable proportion of the issues on here are actually relating to women - mothers, daughters, MILs, sisters, friends, OW etc

But hey, if you want a fight find a tabloid website.