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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Being married to a 12 year old.....

230 replies

Pinkpeter · 31/05/2015 11:17

Regular but name changed.

This is my second marriage. First was short and I'll advised, no kids. His second marriage too. He has three kids from previous marriage and a relationship before marriage. We have two kids together, 8 and 5.
I am generally quite unhappy. I am very conscious that I don't want another failed marriage but conscious that we have done marriage guidance twice but we still keep on having issues.

His good points: he works hard at work, does overtime, very involved with his other kids and fought for all the contact he has, which is standard now, every other weekend and half the hols. Lots of issues there, but they would be deal able with if we got on better. Lots of the issues there were probably caused by our very argumentative marriage and how he treats me in front of the kids.
He takes the kids out, parks etc, he pays all the bills, apart from food and clothes, shoes, birthdays etc, I pay all those. He moans I don't pay enough but I earn less than a quarter than him.
He used to be funny, kind, loving and pull his weight and be clean.
Bad points: he often shouts at the kids in a very aggressive manner. He can't cope when they are running around just being kids, he has a hobby that dominates a lot of his time and keeps him glued to the PC. He is often unkind, shouty, and makes jokes at my expense . If I do this back, he can't deal with it but thinks as long as he finds something it is ok to hurt my feelings or take the piss out of me.
He has put on a lot of weight and often smells, so much the living room stinks. If I say nicely, please can you have a bath, he makes such a fuss and is offended. He belches constantly, big loud belching, I mean, several every minute. I have asked him to stop but he just ignores me. His default reply to anything I say or ask is in a nasty tone or sarcastic. He speaks to me like dirt a lot of the time, even first thing in the morning when I can't have done anything to upset him. If I do upset him, he can sulk for days and won't speak. Then when he is ready, he can't discuss anything and I am expected to just get on and forget about it and never discuss anything. A big bad point...he never accepts he has done anything wrong. He always has a reason, an excuse, but he never accepts responsibility for anything. The house often has a bad atmosphere when he is around. He shouts at the kids, is unnecessarily mean to them, will not implement any discipline techniques, just shouting. They are not bad kids at all, quite well behaved but naughty sometimes, like all kids.
This morning I couldn't understand why the milk had been decanted into a glass in the fridge. I am never allowed to sleep past 8am or he will come into my bedroom, (we sleep apart as he snores and twitches terribly, plus sometimes he smells) . I ask him why and he said I didn't need to know. Very hypocritical as I have to answer any question he asks me. I then find out he took the bottle to the bedroom so he could wee in at night! And when I ask why, he says so he doesn't wake up our son !!!
I am utterly disgusted with this. He goes to the loo often in the night and I have said he should go to the doctors but he refuses. I just can't believe how disgusting this is and how he thinks it is acceptable behaviour. I already have to deal with his 12 year old sense of humour, typical tits, arse, fanny jokes.
I don't know what to do or what I want to happen. As he never takes responsibility , he never admits anything is his fault. I don't want to break up our family , I want him to just grow up and act like a man. I don't want to be married to a 12 year old, as I tell him frequently. I want adult conversation, he seems incapable of it at home, but can at work. He just gets home, and turns into a 12 year old. He has a responsible job, think accountant etc.

any suggestions cos I don't want to break up our family.

OP posts:
saythatagain · 01/06/2015 16:01

Is not a case of measuring one persons situation to yours and coming to the conclusion that that person is suffering more, so mine isn't as bad and I should therefore put up with it.
Truly, what I've read so far from you,is that your situation is bad; really, really bad.
PLEASE MAKE PLANS TO LEAVE

iHAVEtogetoutofhere · 01/06/2015 18:02

PinkPeter - I read your post and felt empathy for you too. ((()))

I think we are BOTH in rotten situations -
'differently bad' for sure, but bad all the same.

Having had some good counselling in the past (might need some more to get through this part of my life!) I have learned that there is no point comparing sadness / suffering etc.

If it is bad for you / your kids then it is bad.
Might be better or worse for someone else - doesn't matter.
It's YOUR family that matters.

I'm going to head off with my capital letters and take some of my own advice Wink

My tribe are back from the trip so I have already had one eyerolling grump from H. He was trying to explain one of my ds's sensory issues.
I have been explaining it to HIM for some years now, but it was like he was doing me a favour explaining it to me.
I just said: 'yes, I KNOW' and that was enough to produce a martyred eyeroll. And so it begins...

SwanneeKazoo · 01/06/2015 18:40

Pink, you said ..whether the children are being damaged by it, cos if they are, then It would strengthen my resolve to leave
What signs are you waiting for that would confirm to you that they ARE being damaged by his behaviour? You know your relationship is not typical, why would you think they are NOT being damaged?
My mum waited 14 years before finding the courage to throw my father out, I was 13 when she did so and am in my fifties now, but those years have affected the whole of my life.

PoppyField · 01/06/2015 20:40

Hi OP,

Just read AF's posts. You know she is right. This man has nothing but contempt for you. There is no strategy that can help you change this. There is no 'approach' that will allow you to have a reasonable conversation about his total unreasonableness.

The most difficult thing for you to absorb and understand in this situation is that he does not give a shit how his behaviour is impacting on you. He knows exactly how you feel - this is not a problem about how you communicate your feelings. He knows exactly how upset you are by his disgusting behaviour and he really doesn't care. You are still bamboozled by the idea that he 'loves you really'. This old chestnut can keep you on a string for years. This situation only adds up if you digest the fact that he has no love or respect for you.

I say this with as much kindness and sisterly feelings as I can muster - and as someone who went through this 'what can I do to solve this?' herself.

You cannot make him treat you properly. This man is laughing in your face and enjoying the cruelty he inflicts on you. That is the only conclusion to come to. He doesn't do this to anyone else. He charms other people quite easily. He manages not to smell disgusting in a work environment. No, it is all directed at torturing you (and your children).

See it for what it is. Stop trying to mend things. He is a nasty, nasty excuse for a husband. End it.

p.s. And don't let the fact that this is your second marriage make any difference. You put this right at the front of your OP as if you should be ashamed that you have a second failed marriage. Well don't be ashamed. You have absolutely fuck-all to be ashamed of. Stand proud and let the shame land where it should - on him.

Pinkpeter · 01/06/2015 21:09

Poppyfield, and others...you are right, he doesn't care as I have been crystal clear about what my issues are. He wouldn't be able to say, well I never knew we had issues or I never knew she was unhappy with anything. I have repeatedly asked him to not makes jokes at my expense, to not call me names, not to shout at the children, not to say belittling things to them and me, to not smell, to stop belching all the time, to respond nastily when I have just asked him if he wants a cup of tea....and more. I have brought them up again and again.

Yet, he would say that he loves me. But I know that he loves himself more. He considers his amusement at his jokes more important than me not liking them, he considers his needs and wants far outweigh mine. His lies don't matter because they suit him. I remember when his son was about 3 and we were in the garden and he had a water pistol. He pointed it at his son and his son said, no don't squirt me, I said, no, don't squirt him, he said he doesn't want you to, but because he wanted to, he did it, and his son cried and he laughed. I've always remembered that. He called me a cretin practically every day until I brought it up in counselling and made him promise not to call it me as I found it so demeaning, he said it so disparagingly.

But I still think, I don't know that he realises the enormity of what he has done or what he is like. I told him he was abusive and he laughed it off, said I was too. He just doesn't take on board what I say about the children, about how we need to nurture them and build them up, not knock them down. He just has no emotional maturity. It is what I meant by the 12 year old boy...he just doesn't get it. He can't understand it. He can understand mortgages and his work and how to run a small business and how to manage lots of projects on the go and pension etc..but he cannot understand the impact of his behaviour on me and the children.

I teach our children table manners, he demonstrates bad manners and thinks it is amusing when they copy him. He pulls faces and sends photos of himself to his daughter, that is his level of fatherhood. I ask him not to swear in front of the kids and he does.

But what I can't work out, and none of you guys really know, only he knows, is how much is deliberate and how much is he can't help himself because he is so immature.

OP posts:
Cancookdontcook · 01/06/2015 21:17

Reading that he called you a cretin every day has literally just turned my stomach. Honestly that is not normal or in any way acceptable, even once.

AnyFucker · 01/06/2015 21:32

deliberate or unknowing

what does it matter ?

he is still treating you and the kids like shit...that is all you need to know

tying yourself in knots tryign to understand the whys and wherefores does you no favours at all

you will never get an answer

all you will ever conclude is that he behaves like this because he gets something out of it

stick around for more if you wish, but it will never change

Handywoman · 01/06/2015 21:42

AF is right. Whether it's deliberate or not is utterly irrelevant.

It suits him to be like this.

He will not change.

I'm so sorry.

EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 01/06/2015 21:53

Of course it's deliberate. He's an adult man, he knows how much his actions upset you and the children and he chooses to do it anyway because he wants to. Can't get more deliberate than that.

KetchupIsNearlyAVegetable · 01/06/2015 22:40

Why bother working out what is deliberate and what is immature?

Use all that mental energy to work out how to get rid of him instead.

shameonme2 · 01/06/2015 22:41

I've just read all of this and your DH sounds painfully, worryingly like mine. The inherent selfishness, the name calling, the never knowing whether things are good and you'll suddenly so something wrong. Like tonight when I was feeding our child, bathing, putting to bed and then cooking dinner. He kicked my work bag with my laptop in it as it was annoying him smd always in the way. why not just move it, or realise I hadn't had time to as I was parenting on my own because he was stuck on his PC. Im now hiding in my bedroom, after arguing back missing dinner as I can't face his company or name calling. Turns out it's not normal is it? you just get used to someone telling you you're worthless and always being wary of whatever the next thing is that you may have got wrong. it's exhausting too. Sad

Cocosnapper · 01/06/2015 22:48

Suppose it's not deliberate? Then what? He can change? How? If he's not doing it on purpose.

OP you're in a double bind because your husband is either cruel or stupid.

Pinkpeter · 01/06/2015 22:50

Sorry Shame, it stinks doesn't it?

I appreciate everyone's replies and I am thinking about them. Am going to see how he is in the next few days/weeks. Now I know people think it is bad and wouldn't put up with it. I need to see what I won't put up with...

OP posts:
AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore · 01/06/2015 22:59

Of course it's deliberate. Does he treat everyone this way? His clients? Everyone? I bet not.

He knows exactly what he's doing.

And be honest with yourself here. Even if he hadn't known what he was doing - you've told him repeatedly. Anyone with a teaspoon of brains would realise that the behaviour was wrong when told repeatedly not to do it. Toddlers get it. Small children get it. And you think he doesn't? Of course he does.

And again, I say this only because I've been through this with my ex. You go ahead and watch the act he puts on with others and then how the mask drops with you and your dc. You need to put aside the idea that you know him. Throw out all the things about him that you "know".. look at him like you would a complete stranger, seeing him for the first time. Really look.

something2say · 02/06/2015 00:21

I agree with coco snapper.

He is either mean or stupid. He sees the damage and does it anyway, or he is too dense to see it.

I expect that when you do leave, he will tell you he didn't know. But as you have said yourself, he did know and he did in anyway.

It reads to me as tho he tortures you all actually. Seeing your faces saying please don't daddy and then choosing to do so anyway.

I am infuriated on your behalf and am actually packing your bags for you. What he says is immaterial.

I think you are very brave to face up to this. Does it feel any better to air it out? Of course, the next steps are the practical ones, but at least you will be taking action and I cannot TELL you how good life is going to become in six short months xxx

Momagain1 · 02/06/2015 00:41

Pinkpeter: the moment he put his hand round your neck and threatened you, your family was already completely broken. It probably was before, but absolutely was in that moment.

You are married to a very sick man. You must escape.

Momagain1 · 02/06/2015 00:50

*I teach our children table manners, he demonstrates bad manners and thinks it is amusing when they copy him. He pulls faces and sends photos of himself to his daughter, that is his level of fatherhood. I ask him not to swear in front of the kids and he does.

But what I can't work out, and none of you guys really know, only he knows, is how much is deliberate and how much is he can't help himself because he is so immature.*

It is all deliberate. He is mocking you, and belittling you in the eyes of the children, with the end goal of making your life even more difficult. As they get older, they will begin treating you like shit, just as he does, in order to get his approval. They can see how he treats you, and they dont want to be treated that way, so will jump through whatever hoops they can to avoid it, including turning on you. Raising teens is hard enough in families where mutual respect is taught, what do you expect your life will be like when he expects you to have raised cooperative obedient teens, but you are wrestling with teens who have been taught it is OK to disrespect, denigrate, and ignore you? How will he take that failure out on you?

When they are adults, they will do whatever they can to get as far away from home as they can/or else never be able to treat others well and move on in the world. In either case, they will choose cruel partners to be doormats to, or be cruel partners in search of doormats.

ColdTeaAgain · 02/06/2015 01:31

There is no point me repeating what others have said but honestly OP this relationship is like flogging a dead horse. It won't get better, you know that. He has no respect for you and that is not a reflection on your character, it is because he is a selfish prick.

Buttering you up with the odd drink when he knows you're really fed up of him is hardly a loving relationship is it?

He won't respect you, but you can respect yourself by not putting up with his disgusting shit anymore. Run like the wind. You and your DC will be so much happier that way. Flowers

FilbertSnood · 02/06/2015 08:51

I totally agree with what momagain says.

I hope you find the strength / resolve to make changes and leave.

rumbleinthrjungle · 02/06/2015 09:15

Oh Pink... Just read your whole thread.

What did it for me was realising the person I loved treated me in ways my worst enemy wouldn't have done, and they were ok with this. they thought it was normal and acceptable and I should just be glad of what crumbs of good they managed to throw in my direction on a good day. The person supposed to love me most in the world. The answer was they didn't love me, they needed what I provided and my lack of boundaries in trying to meet their needs had evolved into their seeing me only as there to meet their needs and enable them with no limits or reciprocation needed. Abusive.

How can you be romantically or sexually attracted to someone who behaves like this to you? Or takes so little thought and care about how he appears to you? He's quit bothering because in his head your job is to provide, to meet his needs, and he has no responsibilities to your relationship. No standards he feels he should meet. He's relying on you compensating for him and compensating some more. Sweetie you can't bring more than 50% of any relationship to the table.

And even thinking about putting his hands around your neck.... My blood ran cold reading that. Red line. Absolute red line. Normal, safe people don't do that. You can't 'drive them to it whatever you do. How many people (his included) have you threatened to strangle?

Duckdeamon · 02/06/2015 10:58

deliberate abuse or down to "immaturity", who cares, the impact is the same. he has had years to change his behaviour and hasn't.

You say you need to see what you won't put up with. Why do you need to wait any longer? For him to use strangling motions again? shout at the DC even more?

you've sadly put up with an awful lot of crap, for many years, which has been bad for you and for the DC. You don't need to stay for further abuse.

Grumpyoldblonde · 02/06/2015 11:12

You know OP, it strikes me that you are hoping someone will come along here and say "Oh, my OH was just like this, but then I Said XYZ, and it worked and he changed" It is not going to happen, you husband based on what you have told us is an abusive, disrespectful, rather dangerous wanker. You can decide to stay and put up with this and the effect on your children or you can decide to leave - but nobody here is going to tell you that he will change and it will all get better which is what I think you are hoping for. I am sorry and hope you make the right decision for you and your kids.

nicenewdusters · 02/06/2015 12:27

You say you're going to see what you won't put up with.

Imagine if your children's teacher treated them like their dad does ?

What if their scout/brownie leader behaved in this way ?

How about an aunt or uncle, or the "kindly" neighbour ?

Surely you'd be shocked, disgusted, and complain, whilst removing them from the damaging situation ?

Imagine how much worse it is for them that one of the people they assume loves them most in the world treats them like this ? You are still the only person that can save them, and you really will be saving them in every way possible.

The person you cannot save is him, and that's ok, it's not your responsibility or your fault. You won't have a failed marriage, and you won't have failed him. He has chosen his course. You didn't marry the man he has now shown you he is. He has effectively lied to you, you thought you were marrying someone else. Where's the shame in being lied to ?

You sound like a great mum; sensible, mature, caring, loving. Show your kids just how bloody amazing you are, that you can make a brave, loving decision that will change the course of your lives.

plainjanine · 02/06/2015 16:27

Am going to see how he is in the next few days/weeks. Now I know people think it is bad and wouldn't put up with it. I need to see what I won't put up with...

At what point are you going to consider how much your children are going to have to put up with? You might be willing to sacrifice your own happiness to avoid "another failed marriage", but why on earth are you willing to sacrifice their lives?

I guess the answer will be the same as it has been right through the whole thread: "I just want him to change".

I hope your kids can forgive you, Pink.

Good luck.

xx

saythatagain · 02/06/2015 18:13

Pink
When you're ready to do the right thing, be that the next few days or few weeks, the people on here who know so much of what you're experiencing, will be at hand to give you the best advice available.
Your decision to see how things pan out is absolutely up to you to make, but, deep down, I think it would be fair enough to say, you already know what is the right thing.
All the posters on here, myself included, are willing you to be be strong and deal with this correctly; for your and your children's sakes.
With all the will power I can summon, I am am sending you strength.....and more strength to cope.
Perhaps, whilst you're thinking things through, you could keep to the forefront of your mind, that there is an alternative to this 'life' you are living? A way out where you get to be the marvellous person we know all know you are?