Vague question

[KnockMeDown]

Sorry for the vague question, but I would be grateful if you could indulge me.

If you saw some photos of a man and a woman, in bathrobes at a spa, taken of each other, then close together in a spa pool, then a photo of their feet entwined in the spa pool, would you suspect that they were sleeping together, or were just mates?

Thank-you

[AnyFucker]

does it take a whole week to prepare for a children's party ?

there is Xmas after that...

[withalittlebitofluck]

I too would hold off till after my child's birthday. Op want to say you appear to be really thinking of your children.

[Vivacia]

I'm going to advocate the long game. Get everything lined up, and I mean everything, and on the last day of the GCSEs present him with your fait d'accompli.

[Vivacia]

But without any ds or 's

[Cloudhowe63]

Protect yourself, OP. Make sure he can't empty bank accounts, etc. Do you have a handle on full financial situation? I would make sure he has no inkling until you're ready.

[StaceyAndTracey]

I'm womdering how the talk will go

" are you having an affair with jane ? "

" of course not, we are just friends, why woudl I have told you that she was staying at our holiday house if there was anything going on ? you are so difficult and controlling, No wonder I need my time away from you . do you want me to give up all my hobbies and free time and spend 24/7 with you ? You are so demanding and unreasonable . "

" well I saw the photos on your FB Page "

" how dare you snoop on my iPad, you are completely paranoid , I bet you have bugged my phone or are having me trailed by a private detective .

" So what do you want - a divorce ? You want to destroy our marriage and our children's lives ? You could never cope on your own. I do everything for you . I think you are mentally ill , you imagine things , I think i should have the children and you shoudl leave . Do you want to leave now ?

No, ok then . I think you should see a doctor, you are obviously losing your mind.

[StaceyAndTracey]

Or do you think you will confront him with your suspicions and he will break down and say

" Yes , you are right , ive been having an affair for the last 6 years . But now you have found out I will end it and work on our marriage . She means nothing to me , you and the children are my life. I'll give up all my hobbies and invest in our relationship . I've been wrong to deny you sex for 6 years . Please forgive me "

[Fearless91]

As soon as another woman gave that sort of gift to my boyfriend I would have alarm bells ringing! I would think it was a huge joke.

Your husband went off for a spa day with another woman. I just can't get my head around that.

And then to upload photos like that?

Sounds like they're up to something....I know I'd be thinking that I'm also likely to say she uploaded those photos because she wants you to find out..

[KnockMeDown]

OK - so, all this cloak and dagger stuff is not my style, and DH is not really the type to empty bank accounts and leave me and the kids financially bereft.

AnyFucker I like you and your style, however, I will not apologise for handling this to my schedule and not yours. However, if this IS still going by Christmas, you can come over and kick my ass! And for the record, A party will take this week to organise - I work during the day, and have Wednesday evening out at the theatre with the girls, so that leaves me with not many evenings to make a huge pile of cupcakes, fill a shed-load of party bags, and buy and make the food.

Quite the reason we don't have sex is long. It started probably after we had DS 16 years ago - he was early and it was all very traumatic and DH did not cope well. It also took me a while to get to the point where I thought it would be nice to get to together again, and then realised that he wasn't keen. There followed many years of me alternately leaving be, and pushing for a resolution, neither option being very successful. Mixed in was the realisation that all was not right with DS, and his subsequent diagnosis with AS, and DH going through hard times with the business he had set up. Things improved very slightly before DD was conceived, even though that was a nigh on miracle of timing, just before my 40th. And nothing since, and she is now 5. When she was 3 I found out he had been having an affair since before she was born. This ended in nasty circumstances, and I stood by him and took him back, with promises of us getting back and closer,but nothing happened. Probably because this OW was on the scene.

Some of the issues for DH probably also started in childhood for various reasons, and he has had a significant amount of counselling, but I do realise this is no excuse.

This is just a snapshot in an nutshell, but hopefully gives you some background. I have held back from posting in the past due to how complicated this all seems, so please bear with me.

[StaceyAndTracey]

I wish I had a tenner for every post ive read on Mumsnet where someone said " My Dh isn't the type to ...

Have an affair
Take all our money
Throw us out the house
Rip off his own kids

In fact I believe it's referred to as " not my Nigel !"

I understand that you and your husband have been through a lot together. Are you saying that you would rather " turn a blind eye " to this affair ? Woudl you prefer an open marriage ? It's not my thing but I belive it works for some couples .

[StaceyAndTracey]

Can I ask how you found out about your husbands last ?? 3 year affair ?

And how did he work to rebuild your marriage and regain your trust afterwards ?

[KnockMeDown]

Stacey I don't want to turn a blind eye - I want the truth, and if it is that this another affair, then that will be it. But over the years I think I have been conditioned into feeling unreasonable for questioning him, so I want to be sure of my facts.

I found out about the affair because he lent her a stupid amount of money, and when he asked for it back, she made a serious accusation against him, and he was arrested.This was all proved to be untrue, but he is still working to get the money back.

We did have Relate counselling in the midst of this affair, during which he told me nothing was going on. So my greatest concern is that he will deny, and I will be left with no proof and not believing him. That is why I want to make sure my facts are watertight.

[KnockMeDown]

Oh, and really he did nothing to rebuild trust, which is why I have continued to be so suspicious...

[AnyFucker]

Love, I think you fully understand what my point is

This weekend it was the mini break, next week it's a child's party. Then some exams maybe ? Another birthday coming up soon. Some intercurrent illness foils your ability to take control. An elderly parent has a crisis. The car breaks down. Some work needs finishing on the house. A job emergency. Then yes, Xmas. Who wants to "spoil" Xmas ?

Life is what passes you by while you make plans.

[Melonfool]

You know, I reckon in his head he has made it that you knew about this affair all along and accepted it. And I bet he told her that too.

Silly as fb is, I'd be seething about the 'like' thing. dp had a stalky ex who was always posting on his wall and tagging him in random photos he wasn't even in and it drove me crazy. Luckily he quickly saw my point of view and unfriended her (she has now, years later, tracked him down on Twitter, I'm less bothered by that, it's more public, less personal, plus we're past her shenanigans now, but she must have actually gone looking for him, the freak).

[StaceyAndTracey]

You know that you don't have to be able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt ? It's not a criminal court of law . If you don't believe him andYou want to end your marriage, you can just do so .

Most people woudl consider all these thinsg together to be good evidence of an affair -

going away for a weekend with another woman ,
going for a romantic spa day and dinner together ,
posting romantic photos of you and OW online
lying to your partner about it .
Refusing to have sex for 6 years
Keeping your phone and ipad locked all the time .
Not being FB friends with your partner

Can I ask what kind of evidence you want ? You know your husband is an expert liar and an adulterer - will you belive him when he tells you they are just good friends ?

[DragonsCanHop]

knock did you post about the previous affair, was it with his PA/secretary?

[KnockMeDown]

I did post before but it wasn't his PA

Stacey I don't want any of it to be true, hence my turmoil

[KnockMeDown]

What I mean is that I don't want my marriage to end unless I have irrefutable proof.

[AnyFucker]

knock, have a think about this to yourself and no need to share it here if you don't want to

you would rather not find out anything more and then you can carry on pretending that he wouldn't cheat on you again and that life can carry on as it was before

of course that is possible, but you will need to acknowledge that you are married to a serial cheat. Some women can do that.

is that the kind of life you envisaged for yourself ?

[AnyFucker]

what would you class as "irrefutable" just out of interest ?

[KnockMeDown]

At this point, I want a full confession, or something else like messages between them. I actually think I am in an impossible position, as if he denies it, I won't believe him anyway.

[DogWalker75]

Oh Knock, this definitely sounds like an affair. I can understand that you want concrete proof, but really, I think deep down you already know what he is up to.

Are you happy in this marriage? Because you sound very down trodden and that in itself is reason enough to end things. You yourself say you've been 'conditioned' to feel guilty/paranoid for questioning his inappropriate behaviour. That is not right. You deserve to be with somebody who treats you with love and care, and it doesn't sound like your husband is making any effort to do so.

If you feel you must have concrete proof, then you could always try his iPad again, maybe whilst he's asleep if he never leaves it anywhere? You could trick her into confessing by saying that your husband has admitted everything, and you want to know how long it has been going on for else you'll tell her husband. (Or the reverse and get your husband to confess.) But really, I don't think any of that is necessary. You are free to end your marriage at any time. for you.

[tippytap]

Knock, your daughter is 5. He was having an affair for the first three years of her life! The amount of deceit it would take to keep that going is immense. And now this.

This could also have been going on years. Is this how you want to measure your life? By how long between affairs it's been for your H?

You don't need proof.
You certainly won't get a confession.

What you'll get is a verbal assault on how shit you are.

You need to think. Is this what you want your life to be like? If so, then do nothing. Don't mention it to him. Pretend you know nothing and accept your husband is a serial adulterer.

The other option is to leave and make a better life for you and the kids without it eating you up inside wondering where your H is and who he is doing.

There is not a magic third option where your H realises held been a shit and turns into a great human being. It will not happen.

I'm so sorry.

I've been on the receiving end of this. I know what you mean about proof. But honestly, you KNOW. You dont need proof. You just need courage. Xxx

[AnyFucker]

you will never get your "full confession"

he does not care enough about you to give your that

it suits him very well for you to pretend all is well while providing domestic services/care for his children/keep the home fires burning while he has his "proper" fun life with other women