Are the "rules" different if DH is a "genius"?

[EquityDarling]

name change for this one...

I have been together for 8 years (married for 6) to a DH who is generally acknowledged (although not by himself) to be a "genius". With a few details changed to avoid outing but convey the essence, he is a renowned artist (in a very specialist field), a widely published faculty member at a top university and a leading campaigner on a particular political/social issue who is often interviewed in the press/asked to give evidence to select committees etc. His intelligence and talent was obvious from an early age, making him something of a freak child, which his lower middle class aspirational parents did not deal with well - they were embarrassed by his "weirdness" and constantly put him down so that he is utterly lacking in self-confidence and can have trust issues and react in a very hostile manner to anything he perceives as criticism. He has an incredibly strong sense of justice and fairness, hence the campaigning work in an area which is often difficult, unpopular and makes him lots of enemies.

I am definitively NOT any kind of genius, just an averagely bright professional from a happy, stable family.

DH and I in many ways have a really fantastic relationship - he is so fascinating, massively enthusiastic, really interested in my views on everything and flatteringly attracted to me sexually. But when he goes through a period of extended stress, which is happening at the moment, due to various issues of principle related to university politics and the wider issue on which he campaigns, he can be very difficult to live with. I have no problem with the things which are upsetting him - he is quite justified to think they are shockingly hypocritical and corrupt and I share his concern about them - but his anger and upset has simply taken over our lives to a degree which is really driving me down. He has immense energy, hardly sleeps and wants/needs to talk about what is bad and wrong and how down it is making him, around the clock. I feel as though the only place I can get any peace is at work.

We have had some counselling (both joint and separate) and I have found that my best coping mechanism is an approach called "radical acceptance", whereby I have to let him talk it out without trying to 'solve' the problem, accept that if we go out with friends he will often spend the evening staring angrily at his phone, posting furiously on various specialist discussion boards, or ranting about how awful something is until it fills up the whole of the space. The same happens if we go to see my family or if he and I go away for the weekend. Basically I accept what I can't change and draw a few agreed boundaries where I can, for example he no longer calls me at work for long rants and has mostly stopped waking me up in the middle of the night to tell me things. I (sort of) knew this was what I was getting into when I married him and I know he genuinely cannot help it, but I am beginning to doubt my ability to see this through in the long term, particularly since the issues currently enraging him aren't going to go away.

I do not believe this is emotional abuse as it is not calculating or manipulative, he is simply overtaken by the strength of his emotions and finds it very hard to self-sooth, but I am wondering whether I am letting my own needs slide to a degree which is damaging. Please be gentle lovely Mumsnetters but advice would be appreciated...

Gosh OP, I really don't think he needs to carry on like this. I lived with someone slightly like this once, I recognise being the 'audience', and in the end I just thought - 'well what makes you more important than the rest of us, really?' I'm a bit about this radical accceptance business, I must say. Why is it just you who has to practice this? Can't he moderate his behaviour, really? I don't suppose he caries on like that at work?

Like many PPs and you too, I would be very worried about his mental health. How long can anyone sustain this level of outrage and agitation? I have stopped being such a passionate campaigner because I was getting so depressed and anxious about my failure to save the world.

Actually I think it is your DH who needs to practice a bit of radical acceptance. He can't fix the injustice and hypocrisy out there, and if he keeps taking it all on like this, surely he'll go mad? Can he learn to pick his battles? It's great that he has had successes, but maybe even that is dangerous - compulsive gambling comes to mind - just one more push...

I can see that this caring and fighting and lobbying is essential to who he is, but is it all he is? Can he really not switch off? Because if he can't, then he isn't giving himself space to be a husband. And if he isn't being a husband, can he expect to have a wife? And space to be a human being. Who is he fighting for, if not humanity - shouldn't he try to remain part of the rest of us?

Probably one of the things he loves you for is your emotional intelligence. Its his turn to listen to the clever one on this!

He sounds very like my STBX husband. Although mine was also angry towards me as well as angry with the world when it didn't go his way, and could be quite abusive.

Mine was also considered freakishly intelligent from a young age, but had a fractured childhood with a critical and unloving mother. It's a bad combination!

I'm not sure if it helps but my STBXH was tentatively diagnosed with BPD. He also suffers from anxiety and depression. He suffered particularly with the ranting/railing against the world/institutions/"The Way Things Are"; particularly at work. He would often stay up all night trying to 'right' the situation by working away at potential solutions, even when to others it was plainly obvious it was futile.

A male friend told me once he sympathised with him, because my friend also thinks he has this inability to digest the fact that the world isn't the way he wants it to be - but that ultimately my friend, despite finding it agitating, is able to absorb this and move on. My ex really honestly finds it next to impossible to accept an outcome that he does not believe is true/just/logical/rational. (I won't tell you what it's like divorcing a man like this other than to say that it's not pretty. Or cheap )

I don't know what to advise really other than that I feel your pain. As others on this thread have pointed out, it really doesn't sound like much fun. In my experience it's tedious and draining in the extreme, and you feel like you're being buffeted around in the dark worm-holes of their brain. The day we separated I felt like an enormous weight had lifted and haven't looked back.

I think your "radical acceptance" is fine and is actually what most people do in a relationship. It tends to be more accute in a relationship where one of the couple has an interest that is almost obsessional whether they are athletes, musicians, novelists or whatever but it occurs in all relationships to some degree or other and is why we compromise. We all have things that our partners don't like so much (and we them) and we agree to set that aside in the context of a wider, positive, equal relationship.

However, there are three things I've noticed here:

1. It's only you setting anything aside.
2. The boundaries of what is acceptable are far, far too broad. Being out at a social function and banging away on social forums related to his interest is not on. That's not even conforming to social norms.
3. It doesn't sound like a positive relationship for you or one of equals.

I am a big believer that giving additional allowances to people beyond the social norms is unhealthy not just for the put up person but also for the person who is being allowed to get away with abnormal behaviour. Boundaries are important for everyone but they need to be more closely drawn from what you have said.

I'm not sure I could live how you describe. I'm sure there are many benefits from being with someone that is perhaps in a league of their own ect ect. I'm very proud to be associated with my wife and get the odd perk in the form of a ball here or a weekend there.
But if the negatives out weight the positives then it would be a problem for me.

We meet up with a couple about 3 or 4 times a year, they are very high brow and intellectual, it's very tiring being around them. My wife and I can hold our own with them and we like a good intellectual discussion as much as the next man. However eight hours of it can grate a little, sometimes you just want to chat about what that chap from towie is up to!

Genius doesn't trump kindness

I practise radical acceptance - for a different reason - and I want to talk about your scope. FWIW, I do think your husband is disordered in some way that isn't explained by being a genius. Disordered minds often achieve great things, if some talent is there, but such achievements come at a social & emotional cost.

But this isn't about him; it's about you. You're doing a brilliant job of acceptance where your husband's misbehaviours are concerned, but what about your needs? How long is it since you last took the time to evaluate who you are - your strengths, flaws, hopes & dreams, ambitions, needs, desires and plans? Have you a clear idea of your life trajectory for the next 2/5/10 years? How are your self-direction plans coming along? Do you love your self enough? How can you love you more?

Radical acceptance is most useful when our life circumstances do not fit well with our inner selves. For me, this means accepting a life-limiting illness (I cannot change it) and also my obligation to find ways to fulfil myself even so. Being married to your husband isn't something fixed - you can change that if you decide to - but you're currently choosing to accept that he's part of your life, therefore to accept the way he is. You seem to be achieving this most admirably! And you don't seem to be as accepting as you could be, concerning your own individual self and your role in your own life.

You've said a couple of times that if you do XYZ (according to your own lights but against his preference) it causes a row. Accept this. One person can have a row all by himself, and it takes a bit of Zen to let that pass, but there's no real need to join him in it.

Not 100% sure this will have made any sense to you, but I hope it has!

Interestingly enough, women academics are rarely described as 'geniuses' or 'intellectually brilliant' even if they are top in their field.

The idea of the male 'genius' to which all other has to be sacrificed is a powerful one.

(I am not a genius, I managed to post this on the wrong thread!)

I am not a genius, I managed to post this on the wrong thread!

YYY to all those pointing out the gendered genius differentials.

It seems the real question is whether the rules are different if DH has mental health issues/ possible neurological disorder...

They're your rules OP, only you can say.

There have always been women who sacrifice themselves to support a male "genius". It never ends well.

Too true napoleon

Lots of posters saying they are married to a genius. Not many saying they are one themselves.

I'm not sure I'd care enough about his art form or the social change he's effecting to put up with this. Another way to bring about good outcomes in the world is to be a decent partner, loving parent, good friend and neighbour. But this doesn't get you called a campaigning genius so it's less appealing.

I'm sorry OP you sound lovely but what you are living with is not sustainable.

Whether he has 'issues' or is a genius is irrelevant. Do you want to live like this?

I'm sure Vengerov isn't this much of a pia.

OP just re-read your post and noticed that he "can't cope with anything he perceives as criticism". Well maybe he can't, but the end result is a bit like someone who abuses/bullies their partner for speaking out on her needs. If he genuinely doesn't want to bully you but genuinely gets upset when you try to talk about these matters, he will try to overcome this obstacle in counselling, and learn to let you speak out.

Otherwise he is accepting that he will always go on effectively bullying you into silence until he's "ready" for you to express your wishes. Which is not on. If he really can't understand (once he's been helped to hear)how this makes you feel, then he's not much of a genius IMO. (Or he is a genius but doesn't care, but I hope its not that).

I know I sound like I'm coming down a bit hard on him but I have been very intolerant of "what I perceive as criticism" in the past (as has DP), and am still learning to deal with it constructively and learn to be a better partner.

OP, I have a very close friend who fits very closely to the description of your DP.

She is beyond talented (household name spoken in hushed tones. Even those who don't like her work, generally accept that she is a true genius).

I adore her company. But could I be married to her? Not on your sweet fucking life! That would be exhausting. That constant swirl of ideas (however exciting, and often they are) would do my head in. I love to stay up talking about the intersection between history and narrative structure...every few months...

Again thank you everyone. I came home from work tonight to a calm, happy DH who gave me a big cuddle after I moaned about the stupid guy at work who had "made" me snap at him and is now sitting next to me on the sofa happily laughing at silly jokes on twitter. And in a minute he is going to wash up and bring me wine. So it can be lovely and it is times like these when it is too easy to forget about the difficult stuff and perhaps that's why I don't persist with trying to get him to take steps to resolve things in the difficult times.

But you are all giving me loads to think about - we are seeing our couples counsellor separately next week and I am going to go through the ideas raised here and plan my discussion with her.

Also it appears I am not the only one dealing with a "mad intellectual" and it is heartening to hear of fellow sufferers/travellers.

This can be an amazing place sometimes x

Agreeing about the gendered genius admiration. I went for an official MENSA test and scored 170, while I was at secondary school. Admittedly short of the 0.01% club of 178 or over. Probably explains why I waited patiently at the wrong platform for my train after the test.

I do, somehow (though sometimes with great effort) manage to work with or around societal expectations, though. I do wonder if I would have had to make that effort if I was male.

Equity glad that you are having a nice evening. However, surely the problem is that it is his moods, his calmness or not, his waking you up in the night with health anxiety, his mania (or excessive behaviour), it is him, all about him in your house. I grew up in a similar household myself, not because my dad was a genius, but because he had mental health issues and his personality was chaotic, suffered from anxiety and took everyone else on the roller coaster ride with him. If this seems familiar to you, I strongly suggest going back for more help with the MH issues.

It is all a balance though, you don't get everything with one person, but surely there is room for improvement here, you sound like you simply can't keep this up for decades of marriage and I don't think anyone would blame you.

Betablockers don't turn you into a zombie if you are on a lowish dose, after a while your body adjusts to them and you can still get the adrenaline rush you need to get work done etc.

Op, the first thing that struck me was that his behaviour was rather "bipolar" and then reading through the thread others have mentioned this too. If the ranting focuses on some kind of conspiracy I terms of the politics at the uni, then that would strengthen my view. If however the is no "edge" to the ranting, maybe it isn't bipolar.

Why don't you book him in to see Darian Leader who is a preeminent psychiatrist on bipolar. It might be very helpful/insightful.

Best of luck

It might be betablockers aren't the right medication, though. I'm just challenging the idea you can't possibly be a brilliant academic and on this or ADs or take sleeping tablets, I can assure you a lot of my colleagues do!

ouryve that's pretty near 'genius' level! I have never had an IQ test, terrified it might show me up...

Do you have children equity? My DF is like this, though less extreme and less successful, and it has not made me into a happy person. I also think it suffocated my DM in various ways, though she doesn't seem to mind, and ultimately I suppose that is her choice.

Anyway two things jumped out at me from what you said. One was that you decided not to leave because he looked vulnerable not because you realised it hurt you to leave. And the second is that you think it's ok for him to wake you up in the middle of the night because he's upset about a news report??? (Unless I have misunderstood this?). To me waking someone at night because you think you're having a stroke = fine obviously. Waking someone because you are concerned you might have one at some unspecified point in the future and can't wait til morning to tell them how to resuscitate you in that eventuality = megalomanic levels of inability to prioritise their needs versus yours.

Basically my point is that both you and him treat his emotions as more important than yours and accept that you will be doing the emotional care taking. What would happen if you needed emotional support for some reason. e.g. you developed depression? I think you should consider very carefully if YOU are getting what you want out of the situation (answer may be yes). The fact that it's not calculated is in some ways more problematic precisely because it makes it (genuinely) more sympathetic and therefore easier to ignore the fact that you exist too. That's my experience anyway.

Yeah, I am married to a tops in his field type too. Who is INTENSE about his interests, and has strong opinions. But he can compartmentalise. compartmentalising can be bad (when used for evil, like affairs) but it can be good too. For example, in his case, discussion of his interests are mostly confined to relevent people: work colleagues, students, or other hobbyists. Your dh needs boundaries. He doesnt have to understand why you need them, it isnt a subject in need of pondering, he just has to get some.

Now, if we could just get our ds (and in this respect, he is his father's child!) to compartmentalise a little. i am trying the token system mentioned above.

I so see where you are. Its personality type + intelligence at top end and I have struggled with OH with this - but in reality we can be two of a kind and that causes issues too. I struggled and was overwhelmed with the amount of info and particularly when I too was in stressful situations and or depression and I have fought out of it. I have learnt to give him time on my terms and when I want to, I have learnt to say non aggressive things lie, can we talk this through in the morning I need to sleep or I won't function tomorrow. Can I please just focus on x for now. He expects me to remember as many names as he does - I can't, conversations that we had weeks ago that he suddenly without warning or reference continues, I have learnt not to ask certain questions (and incidentally so has our 9 yr old daughter!) and we rub along with the occasional blow up. I thought it was just me, I am pleased I am in good company