Are the "rules" different if DH is a "genius"?

[EquityDarling]

name change for this one...

I have been together for 8 years (married for 6) to a DH who is generally acknowledged (although not by himself) to be a "genius". With a few details changed to avoid outing but convey the essence, he is a renowned artist (in a very specialist field), a widely published faculty member at a top university and a leading campaigner on a particular political/social issue who is often interviewed in the press/asked to give evidence to select committees etc. His intelligence and talent was obvious from an early age, making him something of a freak child, which his lower middle class aspirational parents did not deal with well - they were embarrassed by his "weirdness" and constantly put him down so that he is utterly lacking in self-confidence and can have trust issues and react in a very hostile manner to anything he perceives as criticism. He has an incredibly strong sense of justice and fairness, hence the campaigning work in an area which is often difficult, unpopular and makes him lots of enemies.

I am definitively NOT any kind of genius, just an averagely bright professional from a happy, stable family.

DH and I in many ways have a really fantastic relationship - he is so fascinating, massively enthusiastic, really interested in my views on everything and flatteringly attracted to me sexually. But when he goes through a period of extended stress, which is happening at the moment, due to various issues of principle related to university politics and the wider issue on which he campaigns, he can be very difficult to live with. I have no problem with the things which are upsetting him - he is quite justified to think they are shockingly hypocritical and corrupt and I share his concern about them - but his anger and upset has simply taken over our lives to a degree which is really driving me down. He has immense energy, hardly sleeps and wants/needs to talk about what is bad and wrong and how down it is making him, around the clock. I feel as though the only place I can get any peace is at work.

We have had some counselling (both joint and separate) and I have found that my best coping mechanism is an approach called "radical acceptance", whereby I have to let him talk it out without trying to 'solve' the problem, accept that if we go out with friends he will often spend the evening staring angrily at his phone, posting furiously on various specialist discussion boards, or ranting about how awful something is until it fills up the whole of the space. The same happens if we go to see my family or if he and I go away for the weekend. Basically I accept what I can't change and draw a few agreed boundaries where I can, for example he no longer calls me at work for long rants and has mostly stopped waking me up in the middle of the night to tell me things. I (sort of) knew this was what I was getting into when I married him and I know he genuinely cannot help it, but I am beginning to doubt my ability to see this through in the long term, particularly since the issues currently enraging him aren't going to go away.

I do not believe this is emotional abuse as it is not calculating or manipulative, he is simply overtaken by the strength of his emotions and finds it very hard to self-sooth, but I am wondering whether I am letting my own needs slide to a degree which is damaging. Please be gentle lovely Mumsnetters but advice would be appreciated...

It is a bit like that cleanmyhouse, except that although he alienates some he attracts immense admiration from others and recently campaigned successfully for a major public policy change (can't be more specific - but you would have heard of it) so everytime I feel incredibly frustrated I think maybe this is the kind of persistence you need to really make change in the world.

Have never heard of BPD - is there a suggested therapy/medication for it?

My first thought was aspergers (and this is something I know quite a lot about). Don't know so much about bipolar, although my best friend from childhood was diagnosed quite recently.

Sounds very difficult for you. My first husband is undoubtedly a genius, and I have realised since also undoubtedly aspergers. I loved him so much but found him such hard work. He is a lovely man, and very successful indeed in his chosen career. There's not an abusive bone in his body (unlike my second husband! )

Have you talked to your Dh about possible assessment?

AnotherEmma - he very rarely wakes me up now and only when he is really frightened about something. The other night it was to check I knew the signs of a stroke as he had heard that news story about more men in their 40s and 50s dying of stress-induced strokes and was terrified.

AnyRailway - the possible bipolar assessment was given to him by a psychiatrist. A couples counsellor we saw once raised Aspergers with him but he was really angry and she backed off quickly.

Bloody hell. He sounds absolutely exhausting OP.

Yes he is. But I feel that I would be a proper hard-hearted cow to be cross with him in that situation :(

If he woke me up to ask that I think I'd tell him to get a grip. But then I am a grumpy sod

If he is genuinely worried about the impact of stress on his health, he needs to put some serious effort into changing his behaviour.

Does the psychiatrist know about him waking you up at night to rant? Or the falling out with a lot of people? It sounds like this (whatever it is) is having a major effect on his functioning in daily life.

Bipolar disorder and autism spectrum disorders aren't mutually exclusive. It's possible to have both.

grrr cross-post. Sorry Emma!

Geniousness apart, he does sound like someone with a mental issue of some kind... and many can be medicated to make everyone's lives easier (not least the sufferer's and his wife's).

Gosh geekymommy - that's a terrifying thought! I'm not sure what the psychiatrist knows as he saw her on his own. But she had three hours with him and from the sound of it he talked for most of it (there's a surprise) so I imagine she had ample opportunity to form her own view........

Sorry x-post. I do feel for you OP. It seems that he is either in angry, ranty mode - in which case you have to patiently and calmly wait until the storm passes - or he is in sad/scared, vulnerable mode - in which case you have to be sympathetic and supportive.

Is he ever in "normal" mode (whatever that is) when he takes an interest in you and your moods, listens to and supports you?

What's the balance between these modes?

Do you think you could raise his MH as a topic of discussion with him?

A lot of posters have mentioned manic phases etc and going by what you have said I think he does have some issues that need assistance.

Would he entertain the idea that he might be slightly manic right now?

It's very unusual behaviour to wake your partner through the night to discuss Stroke symptoms........

He needs to learn how to switch off but then again he may not want to.

I think you offering to move out is rather accommodating, I don't think it's right that you need to do that in order to get away from his behaviour........he sounds like he is sucking the life from you..........at least he is addressing it but we all have our limits.

I suppose if you do move out, it will give you time and space to truly think and discover who you are and could be without him.

Good luck

I should probably also disclose that he doesn't want to take medication for fear it will "flatten out" his performance - there is an ongoing debate about beta-blockers etc. amongst classical musicians and DH reckons he can "hear" if a performer is on them.

I'm an aspie and used to rant on for hours about topics of fascination to me....I have mostly-managed to stop myself doing that now. It's doable- if you want to do it!

I have also been known to wake partners in the middle of the night when the anxiety and obsessions get too much .

YY to the lack of sleep, and anxiety.

Went to visit some friends yesterday- the DH has Aspergers, and was telling us about his worries about having kidney failure last week (he didn't, but people like us need to know when to stay away from Google ).

Funnily enough, I have both worked and studied in arts academia, and totally get where your DH is coming from there, too- you wouldn't imagine how some so-called professionals could behave....

But none of this is an excuse for behaviour that you find unacceptable. Even people with AS can change their behaviours- if they want to (it seems that aspie women are more ready to change their behaviour than men though, which IMO has much more to do with societal expectations than how our brains are wired ).

This sounds hard and I didn't want to read and run...Ok, my suggestion is that you source an experienced clinical psychologist who will be able to rule in our out all the possible suggestions AND (more importantly) unlike a psychiatrist or counsellor will help you and your dh come up with strategies to manage them. This will be hard to get sorted via the NHS and if you are in a position to pay I would do. There are plenty of private psychs in London use this website to find one. Mention all the issues/concerns previous proto-diagnosese- a good psychologist should 4-5 sessions to conduct a thorough assesment before deciding on a course of action.

I do discuss the MH issues when the moment seems right Quitelikely. And sometimes he can be lovely and fun - in fact quite a lot of the time - but it can switch in a moment, just when I'm feeling relaxed and that's hard.

I do have lots of understanding and supportive outlets, especially my lovely sister and best friend, both of whom get on very well with him but are under no illusions about the difficulties of living with him and are always there to laugh with me at some of his more extreme "foibles". My sister has even "talked him down" a few times for me when I've been too distressed to do so.

Btw, I think it would be totally reasonable for you to be cross with him in most of these situations. It might not help, and he might not like it, but it's a perfectly normal human response. And if he is on some kind of spectrum he does need to understand the impact of his behaviour on you. I wonder if your "perfect" responses (calm, sympathetic etc) might be enabling him in some way. You can't be a martyr to his moods for ever.

I work as an academic, my husband is an academic, I work all the time with academics and attend events of the type you mention. Although we are a bit workaholic at times, I couldn't live like this, because it would be too exhausting. Anyone that woke me in the night to tell me their ideas would get very short shrift indeed.

I'm not surprised you are wondering if you can carry on, because the way you are describing it, you are basically an audience for him, and it sounds like you have started to regard him almost like a very clever toddler who talks all the time, in a distant way rather than as a proper partner. You are like a mother, not only to him, but his 'friends' (students, researchers) who he then expects you to put up with round your house.

It seems like you can't have any needs of your own, he is taking up all the space and energy.

I'm guessing you don't have children, I wonder if that was a mutual choice (which it might well have been).

The problem is that I suspect his ranting behaviour is actually exacerbating the unfairness/people not listening and so on and ramping up the stress at work. There are often complicated and difficult political games to be played to have influence at the very top, and dealing with angry ranting people, even if they are ethically 'right' can mean they use all their energy on being angry and don't achieve the changes they want.

Could you look into getting a second opinion on his diagnosis and the best way forward?

The 'rules' are what you make them.Obviously some people can live like this, as essentially a sacrifice for their partner, but others can't. Living with angry ranty men is deeply unpleasant, my husband has to only be like that for about a day or two before I start thinking about divorce, it is horrible.

"I should probably also disclose that he doesn't want to take medication for fear it will "flatten out" his performance - there is an ongoing debate about beta-blockers etc. amongst classical musicians and DH reckons he can "hear" if a performer is on them."

This is crazy. I would also ask him what's more important: his health, and your relationship, or an imaginary tiny difference in performance? Is he willing to sacrifice his marriage for that tiny difference?

But I agree with the PP who suggested a clinical psychologist. He needs a proper diagnosis and then advice on coping strategies including medication if needed. I am sure they could discuss possible side effects. If he is as intelligent as he's supposed to be, he might heed the medical evidence (maybe!)

Thank you stubborn and hettie for the really helpful posts. stubborn I agree with you about the societal expectations element being a big thing - it has occurred to me more than once that if DH was a woman he would be pretty lucky to find a man who would put up with him! I will look at those recommendations hettie - it was a private psychiatrist he was referred to by our private therapist, who has given the preliminary diagnosis after 3 hours and wants to see him again. So I will probably see where that goes for now but am keeping options in mind. We are not rich enough for two London properties but are lucky to be able to pay for this kind of thing.

I'm incredibly touched by all the support here - has lifted me when I was feeling quite low. Need to run now but will check back later.

Thanks everyone x

Completely u deer stand the situation OP. I am married to the same situation.,IQ size of solar system but quite hard to live with. I put up with it so long before insisting on GP visit and consequent psychiatric referral. Only he was surprised by bi polar diagnosis. We have come to a happy compromise of 'light' medication which both takes away the extremes but leaves the essential person I love in tact. It has taken a lot of work and understanding on both sides but as the positives far outweigh the negatives, it has been a journey worth taking. As the psychiatrist says - at least this is one area where there is a host of different medication to try, gone are the days of ' Librium suits all' thus destroying the innate nature of your dh personality. I wish you all the best. If you go down this road, for my part it's been well worth it.

I found your post tiring to read, OP. God alone knows how you put up with this, you'll be wrung out like a dishcloth soon enough.

I don't think him being a genius somehow makes his behaviour more understandable/acceptable. A miserable ranter is simply that.

He CAN help his behaviour. He has a partner, its his choice whether to take your state of mind in all this into account or not. He has chosen "not".

I think what some posters have said about bi-polar is helpful. Something for you to think about...perhaps its something you can face and solve together, hopefully he is willing

He's driving himself into a state too and nobody wants that...

If he could sleep, do you think its likely he would be in a better mental place?

I'd get a second opinion from another psychiatrist, if possible. Bipolar is not something you want to screw around with. People die from it- the risk of suicide is much higher for people with bipolar. Kurt Cobain is a famous example (for people my age, at least). Robin Williams may also have had bipolar disorder. There may well be a link between creativity and bipolar disorder. People with bipolar are overrepresented in creative fields.

Just because he talked to the psychiatrist for hours doesn't mean he necessarily talked about his fallings-out with people or his waking you up in the middle of the night.

DH is very similar. Maths prodigy whilst still at junior school. IQ tested at 178 whilst at secondary school which was a top boys' grammar. Had an eidetic memory.

Met him at university and he was a bit of a legend on campus for his hard partying. He was intensely sociable and pathologically loyal to his friends and family. But very black and white. He either loved you/hated you, or you simply didn't exist for him.

He was very popular and physically very attractive but hadn't had a serious girlfriend until we met. Then he sort of 'imprinted' on me. It was all consuming. On our first date he told me we would get married! There was a very intense physical attraction which has never gone away to be honest. He is still very passionate. Gets in from work, pushes me up against a wall and snogs me like a teenage boy. It can be great but it can also be overwhelming.

He is incredibly impatient with those who don't have a brain which processes like his (which is basically the rest of us). He is highly opinionated and will happily argue his point in the face of mass adversity/disapproval. For those familiar with Coleberg's Morality Principle he is a 'chaotic' personality.

He runs his own business but only because he could never bear to take instructions from anyone else. He immerses himself in incredibly techie research and creation and has half a dozen great ideas per day. He's often extremely successful. But can also be incredibly unsuccessful due to his refusal to 'deal with the details'. His poor staff trail round after him trying to keep up and get him to focus on 'dull' staff like signing a cheque for the PAYE. He has despised every accountant he has ever used 'because they're crap at maths'

I do sympathise OP. It can be exhausting and exhilarating all at the same time. But I knew what I was signing on for. I accepted that we would likely never live a calm, mundane lifestyle. We've had amazing highs and some crushing lows.

I think I have (mainly) happily accepted our relationship because the highs definitely outweigh the lows and the sex is still amazing