I know it's late, but anyone there to console me? I am feeling sick to the stomach that I probably won't get justice :( (Trigger warning)

[keepingmum121]

Anyone there? I need to splurge.

Thanks pointing me to that passage in Summerbreezer's link, goddessofsmallthings. (I'm a RL friend of keepingmum, btw, and desperate to help her with this in any way possible, but quite out of my depth, and not local.)

So, if "requests for review of such decisions must be addressed to the relevant police force", does anybody know what form that request needs to take to have the best chance of success? Can it be a simple request or is the onus on keepingmum to "make a case" for her case? (At which point I want to bang my head against a wall at the unfairness and absurdity of it all.)

Re your point about the police not yet having built a strong enough case, sadwidow28 (and I'm so very sorry, by the way, if your screen name refers to you - didn't feel I could use it without saying that), I'm at a bit of a loss as to what more evidence keepingmum can provide. It seems the DC and DI (ERO?) are both convinced by the existing evidence themselves, but aren't optimistic that a jury would be. (More head banging.) And yet those points keepingmum listed that would allegedly go against her in the eyes of the jury seem to me (as someone else said) to be absolutely classic responses to this kind of crime. Surely a criminal trial must be able to accommodate this being explained to a jury, if it might not be common knowledge? (Just thinking aloud, not complaining to you, sadwidow.) And surely, if the police believe a crime has been committed, it's the CPS's job to consider how this might best be proven to a jury in court - not the victim's?

So angry

This is all so wrong.

KM, please don't give up. Fight for yourself. You've got a MN army with you.

It seems the DC and DI (ERO?) are both convinced by the existing evidence themselves, but aren't optimistic that a jury would be.

Hi Samething, MNetters these days often call me SW - but it is okay, it describes me!

As I understand it, the DC and DI are convinced of the TRUTH of the allegation by existing evidence, but haven't built a strong enough case to pass to CPS.

The means for a complainant to appeal a CPS decision are very clear. It is the process for appeal whilst it is still a police investigation that is more difficult. Now didn't the OP say that one witness had not been interviewed? KeepingMum should contact the investigating DI and ask that a statement is taken from the witness she has identified. That in itself might throw up more witnesses that KM herself was not aware of.

If they refuse to do this, KM could write to her local MP (it's easy using www.writetothem.com/ ) and it is amazing how the police will jump!

Alternatively, she can ask for a meeting with the Detective Superintendent of the division. S/he will assess what is going on and assist in moving the investigation forward because clearly not ALL evidence has been collected at this stage. During that meeting, the Superintendent MAY explain that the officers think KM may not be up to being cross-examined on the current evidence (it is a brutal affair - and is based on accusing KM of being a liar etc). Frances Andrade committed suicide after being degraded in the witness box after testifying against child abuse (Feb 2015). Ceri Linden committed suicide after giving her video statement to police as she couldn't face a jury - but her testimony was submitted anyway and her rapist was convicted (May 2015).

My last question to KeepingMum - do you have a solicitor?

By the way, I did say in my previous post: "This is where WE start"

In no way did I want KM to think that I do not believe her -I DO - and I didn't want her to think she was alone in the fight for justice - hence the use of "WE".

I have just read back and see that the other witness is a church minister. Oh dear - dodgey! They can plead confidentiality of minister/worshipper privilege (a bit like confession in the Catholic church). However, I do think that any testimony he might be willing to give falls into 'hearsay' in the strictest sense, so a good solicitor could help on this aspect. (There are some specialists who do pro bono cases)

Samething if ever you want to PM me on KM's behalf, that would be okay. Whatever I don't know, I am pretty good (with links to good people) to find things out.

If I can't help, I am also honest and won't keep you dangling.

With regard to the link given by sadwidow on the previous page, it is my understanding that the CPS will only review decisions they have made relating to cases which have been referred to them. and, from what she has said, keeping's case has gone no further than the police officer who decided not to refer it to the CPS.

With regard to If it has been rejected at police level then they haven't built a strong enough case to put it to the CPS.^
So, that is where we start.
Think about any other evidence YOU have to corroborate your story (a diary, text messages, phone bills, conversations with friends/neighbours)
List any witnesses who have NOT been spoken to by the police.

1. Having investigated keeping's complaint to the full extent of their ability to do so, the police made an abitrary decision not to refer it to the CPS.

1. Other than specific texts or written messages which could be used to corroborate either party's account, any 'evidence' as described above would be hearsay and/or inadmissible. .

The problem is that serious sexual assaults rarely occur when witnesses are present and it therefore comes down to one party's word against another.

In keeping's case there was evidence in the form of bruises and bite marks which substantiated her claim but, because of the 8 day delay in reporting, these injuries were not photographed by a poice photographer while they were still visible.

The photographs that keeping's friend took cannot be used to support her statement. However, keeping says she has 'written comments from him that make it clear he knows what he did' which again raises the question of why the police did not refer the case to the CPS and, more especially, when they have been at some pains to reassure her that they unreservedly believe her account of what took place.

From keeping's account of what she was subjected to, I am 99% certain that he has done this before and 100% certain that he will do it again, most probably in the not too distant future.

As I have no doubt that the police are of the same opinion, I find it inexplicable that they chose not to pass her case to the CPS.

OP - if you feel the investigation has not been thorough then absolutely push forward if you want to. This is your life and we will all support you.

But I know you want him understandably to experience the consequences of his rape of you. Of course you do and he should.

But if you proceed you have to be prepared that those consequences may still not happen. They may do and that would be just and brilliant bit they may not.

If you want to pursue it. Great. If you are willing to go through a potential criminal trial - brilliant, I applaud you and your bravery and your quest for the truth and justice. We will support you.

But there are no guarantees he would be convicted. Go for it if you can and want to and if the Police/CPS will proceed.

But you have to prepared for the worst outcome. Not because it will necessarily happen but because the reality is that it might.

Do whatever you think is right. But however you feel now would amplified hugely if you felt let down and that justice wasn't served after going through further processes and potentially a trial which could leave you having your life on hold for many more months or even years.

Do what you want to do but to do that, you have to also consider how you will feel if it doesn't result in the outcome you're hoping for.

goddess the photographs that the friend took CAN be used in evidence. However, the digital device (phone or camera) has to be handed over for forensic investigation. Then the friend gives a witness statement stating when she heard about the assault, why she took the photos, and anything else she can remember from that meeting.

Now, it is the written comments from him that is further evidence. That's why I asked if there were texts, emails, FB comments - even evidence of his phone calls on a phone call to confirm that KM had been contacted by him afterwards.

Again, the computer, phone etc would have to be offered for forensic analysis (but not before sending screen shots to a trusted friend!)

If you want to learn and understand about the painstaking lengths that the police go to - and the decisions made regarding referral to CPS, prosecution etc then watch THE DETECTIVES (Shown on BBC1 in May 2015). Not only does it deal with the 2 year investigation into Ray Teret (friend of Jimmy Savile) accused of child abuse, but follows other sexual cases - some positively prosecuted and some unsuccessfully so.

Part 1: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05wh973/the-detectives-1-manhunt

Part 2: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05whvjr/the-detectives-2-interrogation

Part 3: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b05whxl8/the-detectives-3-judgement-day

• evidence of his phone calls on a phone call = evidence of his phone calls on a phone bill

I believe you. I am so sorry this happened to you and you're having to struggle to be heard, it is beyond unfair. Please don't be afraid to appeal if you want to, as a pp says it is their job and they don't take it personally. You are absolutely entitled to ask them to think again and explain again and they will be happy to do so.

An excellent post, goddess, putting into words what I have been thinking much better than I could.
I can only speak from personal experience, and I have know knowledge of Law, but when I reported, there was no physical evidence (none that could be proved to be due to the abuse), and only one person could speak on my behalf. Even then, she could have changed her mind and actually defended him
The CPS did take my case on board, but I was prepared for what I would face in court. I wonder if the police think it would do more damage than good, then they won't pass the case on. I don't know this, I am wondering.
It really is a massive, massive deal. I wonder that so many are convicted, because it is horrible. It is saying things out loud, things that I would never say to anyone that was scary for me. The abuser isn't bothered, he will get a kick out of hearing/seeing you say those things.It just carries on.
He will also get a kick out of saying things about you. The police really laid it on thick about what it would be like in court.
The police can be 100 pc sure he is guilty, but it's not enough.

Well said emmelinelucas

The police have a duty of care as well as the right to forward for prosecution.

However, I think The OP has some RL friends on this thread and we need to be guided by the OP's 'TEAM'. We can join in as and when wanted if we can help.

Absolutely, SW I agree.
If, God forbid, he did it to someone else, would Keepings report be able to be brought up in court, if the CPS decided to prosecute ?

Thanks so much for your reply and offer of help, SW. And thank you everyone for the supportive posts. My only expertise are in knowing and caring about keepingmum in RL, and it's beyond awful to witness what she is going through from a distance (I'm not in the UK), so I'm really very grateful.

Dear keepingmum, how are you this evening after your appointment? Thinking of you.

I am fully cognisant of the painstaking lengths the police go to and the decision making process regarding referral to the CPS, SW, but I would be interested in utilising any link you can provide which relates to a crime of serious sexual assault where injuries have been documented by a friend of the victim in the manner you have suggested and the resultant photographs were deemed admissible in court.

To my mind, proving that a certain camera took a certain photo on a certain day at a certain time is one thing, but proving that said camera didn't lie is quite another.

In addition, the defence/the jury may reasonably ask why the victim chose to have a friend photograph their injuries shortly after the alleged attack when numerous tv programmes, possibly including those you've provided links to, stress the importance of early reporting to the police to retrieve as much forensic evidence as possible.

Given the circumstances surrounding the serious sexual assault which was perpetrated on keeping, I would imagine that evidence of phone calls made to her by her attacker after the event would be abscribed by the defence to his desire to see her again or or call off what he would, I suspect, claim to have been their 'relationship', albeit one of short duration.

Oh goodness, I feel overwhelmed (in a good way) by all your kind and helpful messages.

Saw the counsellor today - it was not a proper counselling session; it was only an assessment. She told me that there is a waiting time of a few months and that when I do receive counselling I am not allowed to discuss any details of what happened, just how I'm feeling. This is because IF it did go to court, they could use it against me by claiming that my counsellor put ideas in my head.

Going to read through and answer questions now....

Okay goddess I think I know of 2 cases where the friends' photographs were used. I will ask those two people if I can share details.

Are you the barrister for the defence by the way?

In addition, the defence/the jury may reasonably ask why the victim chose to have a friend photograph their injuries shortly after the alleged attack when numerous tv programmes, possibly including those you've provided links to, stress the importance of early reporting to the police to retrieve as much forensic evidence as possible.

There is much research showing that the victim does NOT disclose initially because of shame and self-blaming. More and more cases are being presented and the Prosecution Barrister will take KM through her answers before trial.

I personally didn't disclose from Thursday to Sunday. But my neighbour saw and photographed my main bruises. (I trusted her). During my initial police interview (in my home), the police asked why I had only reported after 3 days ..... my answer? "Because I had spoken to the Samaritans who said that suicide was not the way forward, reporting was".

A police female photographer came to my home on the Monday - but I still would not allow her to photograph the bruises around my vagina where I had been systematically kicked. I did go to A&E though and allowed a female doctor to see them. (I am sorry - I can't remember if I allowed A&E to photograph my vaginal injuries, but I don't think I did)

I was considered a 'credible witness' even though I was under counselling for grief. (My Husband died in 2001)

I had a great victim-support lady by my side throughout. She attended follow-up interviews with me, she made phone calls, and organised for a screen to be set up when I had to give my evidence in CC. It was first assigned to a Magistrates' Court but moved to County Court by the CPS. As it happened, my perpetrator did a last-minute guilty plea to the court on the day, based on all the evidence (including photographs) so I never had to go into the witness box.

I have heard since that my perpetrator was advised by his solicitor to plead not-guilty at every bail hearing 'because most women don't see it through to a trial'. My case happened in 2004 when the police focused on getting to trial quickly - before the fear and sleepless nights took over. My case came to trial in 5 months! I had no friends, no family - just me and the Samaritans and my Victim Supporter.

My perpetrator got 3 months custodial sentence (released after 6 weeks). It was reduced to 3 months for his guilty plea.

Well done for getting yourself there, honey.

It's ludicrous that at the time you most need to offload what you went through to a trained counsellor/therapist. you can't. No wonder so many victims suffer PTSD years after the event.

There's so much wrong with the system it's hard to know where to begin improving it, but a fast track through the courts for cases of serious sexual assault would be a start.

I am not allowed to discuss any details of what happened, just how I'm feeling.

From my own experience, I also was not allowed to speak about the detail of the abuse.

I had a grief counsellor (E) and a Hospital Consultant (DrW).

I gave written permission for them to speak to each other whilst I waited for the case to go to court. I recall now that I had to give the police written permission to speak to both of them so they could assess my mental health and well-being. DrW had been an expert witness several times and agreed to be an expert witness to my truthfulness and mental well-being. I wasn't allowed to speak to her as we waited for the hearing at CC.

There are some good people who will listen - without being involved directly in your case:

www.rasasc.org.uk/

They don't do overnight phone calls so use Samaritans if you start to feel the dark hours and MNetters are not around:

Telephone Samaritans:

08457 90 90 90 * (UK)
116 123 (ROI)

Regarding other evidence, they already have:

1. Data from all phones and from his laptop. We had texted and messaged on skype (typed, not video calls)

2. The photos that my friend took

3. Statements from two people: the friend who took the pics and another friend who attended the clinic with me the day after it happened.

I needed emergency coil and ella one because I'd already taken one other type of MAP earlier in the week (after the one and only consensual episode). I feel awful to say it, but I'm not sure how helpful her statement will be because she was not picking up on my distress at all. She had asked me by text the evening before if it was consensual and I was still in a really confused state at that point. I remember (the next day) saying to her things like, "I'm confused" and "I couldn't get him off me" (she answered, "of course you could have") and "He pushed his hand inside me. I couldn't get it out". Anyway, it was not until I emailed SameThing that evening that I properly had it validated that what he'd done was wrong.

Sorry, I'm getting waylaid here. Here is one of the factors that the defense will use against me: When he 'won' the battle (as in, when he succeeded in inserting), I immediately and automatically switched 'modes'. This is an automatic response I have that I can't control. It is a self preservation tactic learnt from the years I was subjected to abuse from my husband. With my ex, submission was not enough. I had to cooperate. If I didn't comply with his demands, I was in danger. Therefore, I went into a zone where I acted convincingly and even deluded myself for quite a number of hours afterwards. Hence the confusion. I literally had temporary amnesia afterwards (of what he did to me in the lead up), and the fog gradually cleared as I remembered details of what preceded the sex.

This is one of the sticking points that the defense will use and something very hard to get a jury to understand.

4. My diary. I write a diary every day anyway, so it wasn't just because of this. I therefore have documented all that led up to it. The DC said that it is not really good evidence because I wrote it myself.

There are various other people they could speak to but the DC said that there wasn't much point because it would just be a repeat of what I'd told the ones they have spoken to. I suppose that is true, but I still wonder why they didn't speak to the minister as he spoke to the perpetrator very shortly afterwards who was very angry, intimidating and cursing me.

I don't think the problem is lack of evidence. Reading his messages to me afterwards, there are comments he made that could go against him. I think the problem is the sticking points that will be hard to explain to a jury. Mostly my cooperation and that I didn't immediately realise what happened (because of the amnesia). I am prone to amnesia in these situations. When I was attacked age 20 (totally different circs), I only know what must have happened because I remember trying to get away and the next thing I remember clearly is finding my clothes on the ground amidst all the fag ends.

Sorry for the essay!!!

In addition, the defence/the jury may reasonably ask why the victim chose to have a friend photograph their injuries shortly after the alleged attack when numerous tv programmes, possibly including those you've provided links to, stress the importance of early reporting to the police to retrieve as much forensic evidence as possible.

Just to also add that I don't own a tv and I have no idea of this kind of thing. I've never watched a programme of that kind. I have a horrible phobia of the word for what happened and it is only very very recently that I can manage to read the word. That is a huuuuge development for me. Still can't write it myself though (or say it). Anyway, as a result I have never been able to even google to try to find out about the police process so when I reported I had NO idea what would happen.

In fact, the DC said a few times to me in the early days that I shouldn't expect the process to be like what I've probably seen on tv. I didn't have any expectations of that kind of course!

Don't worry about the essay - it's good that you're able to get it out and you've got a safe place to do so here.

I agree with you in not thinking the the problem is lack evidence and, from the additional information you've just posted, I'm even more at a loss to understand why the police didn't refer your case to the CPS.

Have you had a response to your email?

I've not had a reply yet but I take it to mean that she'll be thorough when she does. She was lovely to me on the phone on Tuesday and let me know that I can email or call her if I need, when I've had time to digest what she'd just told me.