DP- is he tight or am I just a princess?

[CotswoldQueen]

I have been with my DP for 2 years, we have a great relationship, I fancy him rotten, he is kind and caring, we get on great and he DOES make me really happy. I don’t know whether I’m just being a princess, trying to self-sabotage or what but sometimes it just seems like….well I don’t really know.

I guess I could start by saying that my long term ex was fabulous, we were together for 6 years, he was everything my current DP is but also generous and I was never in any doubt that he absolutely adored me and was my no 1 fan. Unfortunately, for me, the relationship just wasn’t what I wanted, I felt like we’d become more like best friends, I just didn’t want him sexually anymore, I absolutely loved the bones of him, but I was no longer in love with him so I ended it.

When I say he was generous, he would sometimes buy me random, thoughtful presents just because he thought I’d like them. He would always insist on paying when we went out and I would literally have to put the cash for my half into his jacket pocket etc when he wasn’t looking. He would love to celebrate our anniversaries, birthdays etc and would book surprise weekends away or take me out to dinner.

Don’t get me wrong, because he was generous to me, I wanted to be generous to him too and was, I used to spoil him on his birthday and on our anniversary’s etc. It was just nice, I know it’s materialistic but we both just enjoyed treating each other.

Cut to current DP, he has a very good, professional job, earns a lot of money and has a lot of disposable income. He, however, is a saver not a spender. He kinda counts every penny and just, I don’t know, I can’t really explain it but it’s like he resents spending anything on me?

We don’t live together, he has his own (large house) and I currently rent a cottage off a family friend. After paying for my rent, bills and paying off some debts and the animals, I don’t have a vast amount left over each month, enough to have a couple of nights out a month etc but not loads.

Whenever we go out for dinner, it always has to be split, down to the last penny. If I can’t afford to pay half then we (generally, there have been a couple of exceptions) don’t go. There is hardly ever an offer of ‘let’s go out to dinner tonight, I’m paying.’

I stay at his 3, occasionally 4 nights a week, but on the majority of those evenings I bring dinner for us both and wine for myself if drinking it. I clean his house (he is generally tidy but a typical man and can be a bit messy) help to look after his 2 dogs.

The other evening he made a hinting comment about how much toilet roll is being used lately with the 2 of us there, so I said I’d bring some round next time I’m there. A few weeks ago he was going to Tesco and I asked him if he could pick me up some make up remover wipes and deodorant as I had ran out of both, he did. They came to a total of £4.90 and he reminded me about that £4.90 within about 15 mins after getting back, I was going to give him the money FGS but it’s £4, I’m sure he’s not going to go bankrupt if he doesn’t get it within the hour.

I will often pay for things if we go out and he’ll say ‘I’ll transfer you half when we get back.’ And I say ‘It’s fine, it’s only £10 FGS’ The other week we went to the cinema, there was a massive que and I said ‘I’ll get the tickets, why don’t you get in the que for the popcorn.’ He said ‘No it’s fine, the film doesn’t start for another 15 mins yet, we’ve got plenty of time’ So, we finally get to the front and it’s so awkward as before I can say anything he goes ‘Ticket for one please to see XXX.’ The cashier looked really embarrassed, looked at us both and repeated ‘Just the one ticket?’ to which I jumped in before he could say anything and said ‘YES and one for me please too after he’s paid for his.’ We then went to the que for food, I stood in front of him and said ‘I’m going to get a medium, mixed popcorn.’ He then said ‘So how much is that, £3.56, I’ll give you the £1.78 when we get home.’ I had had enough at this point as the couple stood behind us (same couple that had stood behind for the tickets too) I could tell were aghast and snapped IT’S FINE, I CAN TREAT YOU TO SOME BLUMMIN POPCORN!! He looked a bit sheepish but said no, I owe you it, I’ll pay half, which he did!

We had a talk when we got home that night as he could tell I was annoyed, I said we are in a relationship, I do not want to quibble over £1.78 etc, and count every penny, it’s ridiculous and embarrassing. He said okay, let’s take it in turns to pay for things. Fine, but it really is mostly rigid with that and he even keeps a ‘diary’ of who has paid what, it just feel so…… unromantic?? I don’t mind blummin paying for him and treating him to things because I love him, I don’t expect half back etc or for him to rigidly ensure he treats me the next time.

The thing is, although he’s careful with his money he will OCCASIONALLY be generous with me, i.e get the bill if we go out, or the cinema tickets etc but it will be only be occasionally. He is generous to other people in his life, we had his brother and his wife down a few weeks ago and when they arrived on the Friday evening, he took us all out for a 3 course dinner and paid for the lot, same when his parents and friends have visited, in fact, he is pretty generous with his family and friends? He gave his brother a cheque for £8k when they were last down, to put into his two nephew’s trust funds. I felt an enormous rush of love for him when he did this, it was such a lovely, lovely thing to do.

He also went out and spent £30k on a boat a few weeks ago, so it’s really not like he doesn’t like spending money. He definitely doesn’t mind spending on his hobbies etc, he’s just not into frivolous spending I guess but also, doesn’t yet, seem to want to be generous when it comes to me?

Despite all said above, he is unbelievably kind, caring, supportive, good and generous in bed. He looks after me when I am ill, washes and cleans my car for me randomly when I’m not expecting it, has spent all day when I was on a girls day time cocktail/shopping trip fixing my car and the sole of a boot of mine that had broken, he cooks me dinner, brings me tea and toast in the morning at the weekends, gives me lifts if I need them, supports me in my hobby, is lovely to my friends and family. He is pretty perfect, but, for some reason I just don’t feel comfortable with him re money.

I am aware this post makes me seem like a mercenary gold digger, I promise you I’m not. I really do, I think I have just been really lucky with my ex in that he was an all-round nice guy and generous to boot. I have now met another all-round nice guy but he just tirelessly counts and records every penny when it comes to us and our relationship and I am starting to wonder whether this will continue (given that he is generous with his friends and family) and if so, whether it is a deal breaker for me. He has been vocal about wanting kids and we have talked about the future, I have absolutely no doubt that he would be generous with his children and they would want for nothing…but what about the mother of his children? We haven’t moved in together yet, again he’s hinted but at the moment I am failing to see how it would work, I have cheap rent where I am at the moment, if he expected me to pay half of everything, I would have about £100 a month leftover to pay for things like haircuts, nights out, clothes etc. I would struggle. I would end up resenting him.

I agree Gralick.

These sorry scenes don't just reveal his attitude to money but to the OP period.

I'm not missing your point zigazigah, it's just wrong (as people usually are when they claim a poster is getting a better time of it because she's female). You said if the genders were reversed he'd be getting praised for being sensible and protecting himself. Which would not be the case for anyone who pulled either the bog roll or cinema stunt. As a pp pointed out, you also overestimate the significance of one post saying he could help with her debt. That's clearly not anything close to the majority view. He's not getting a pasting for protecting himself financially and keeping separate finances, he's getting a pasting for penny pinching over bog roll.

That said, even if he manages to get over his use of misogynistic terms like gold digger and inability to wait more than 15 minutes to get £4.90 back, they're so different financially that it could be very difficult for them anyway. OP is on a much lower income and has debt, so that means either he significantly reduces his standard of living to what she can afford to pay half of, or he pays the lion's share. Either could be difficult even for someone who didn't have a completely warped attitude to finances. I'll be honest, I'd worry about having children with someone who says their ex is a gold digger, simply because I'd worry about them resenting contributing more when I was on ML.

I just think you are too mismatched OP.

I agree that it is lovely of your friends partner to book a weekend away as a surprise, I'd love that too and that doesn't make you a bad/mercenary person at all!

But to expect a man who buys his own fecking cinema ticket when you've been going out for 2 years to magically become 'take my girlfriend on a surprise trip away to Paris' man is to live on cloud cuckoo land. He's just not going to change that much!!

The cinema ticket, popcorn, loo roll etc etc, it's just so fucking petty. Do you want to be with a petty man?

Agree with kitty about the cinema ticket except there would be no explanation from me. When he looked round I'd have gone. And I know he wouldn't waste his ticket.

I once went out with a high earning tight wad for a couple of years. We both earned a good income but his was considerably higher than mine. He would never go out for a meal as he regarded that as a waste of money. I, on the other hand, love going out for dinner. I mentioned to him that I really enjoyed it and missed going out so he said he would book a table and treat me to dinner. We had 3 courses and a beer and half a bottle of wine each and it came to about £55. It was a lovely evening.
When perusing the bill he gasped and said "£1.50 for a bowl of olives!"
At that moment I knew I couldn't spend the rest of my life with him. I got up, paid the bill and left. I never saw him again! Best thing I ever did!

These sorry scenes don't just reveal his attitude to money but to the OP period

That's it in a nutshell. He's never keeping count, and is generous with others...just not her.

I personally think it's fine to keep a general 'score' on spending in the early days to ascertain the sort of person you are with, this is a 2 year old relationship!

"1.50 for a bowl of olives"

Ooo I think you made a wise decision there.

Very tricky one. The fact that he does his Mr Generous act with relations and friends is telling.

This is never going to change unless he wants it to so in your place I would have a very hard hitting conversation because as pointed out above you do not want to be dependant on this chap without an income. My DH and I always had a salary gap and in the early days we both chipped in but he naturally paid more simply because he could. Later on it became much more so and now I'm almost completely non earning and that's just fine. He does like it if I occasionally pay for something and so do I.

Thanks for all the replies,

I will start by saying that at this moment in time, I am not going to ‘LTB’ simply because he isn’t one.

I did genuinely mean everything I said about him, I know it’s easy on here to have a certain picture painted of people and it’s difficult to see anything else, but he honestly IS a brilliant DP. He is my best friend and has been there for me and supported me through a lot of crap over the last 2 years. He is generous with his time, he makes me his no 1 priority, he is generous with his love, he is generous with his house (I always feel at home, never a guest) he gave me a key to his house after only a couple of months of dating and told me to treat it as my own.

The only thing that he hasn’t been generous with is his money, but as other people have said we are not yet living together, married or with children so our finances are totally separate, my money is mine, his is his.

The cinema thing is the only thing he has done in the 2 years we’ve been together like that, I was absolutely seething and he’s not stupid, he knew he’d upset me. When we had a chat when we got home I should’ve really been more explicit as I didn’t even bring up the ticket, I should’ve done. What I did bring up was him insisting on paying me back the £1.78 or whatever it was for the popcorn, whilst it’s very sweet, it’s £1.78 FGS, I wasn’t going to make him beholden to me for that, if it was £178 that would’ve been different. He said that he just wanted to pay me what he owed me, that he had eaten half the popcorn so why shouldn’t he pay me half? I said that’s fine but it doesn’t always have to be like that and this nit picking over pennies I couldn’t be doing with. It was THEN that he said ‘You’re right, let’s just take it in turns to get things then.’ Which HAS happened and has been fine, but like I say, he is pretty rigid with it, in terms of it benefiting me as much as him, if I have got dinner/cinema whatever the last time then he insists on getting it the next time, yes that’s great but I honestly don’t mind if I ended up paying for something again, so long as that didn’t keep happening it’s no biggie, it’d all balance out I’m sure. If he ever happens to pay for an outing twice in a row, I don’t want him getting the hump about it, it would make me feel like spending a few quid on me was a massive chore.

The loo roll thing, well yes, that is ridiculous, but like I say, it’s been a long running joke in my family for years that I use a lot of loo roll and I do use more than him, so I genuinely don’t mind buying a pack of loo roll now and again, but if he was to get arsey if I didn’t, that’s another matter.

Re my debt, I will openly admit that apart from a major car repair and vet bill, the rest of the debt just accumulated through me being frivolous, he HAS stated that that does worry him, we HAVE talked about my debt. However, like I have said, I am paying it off and the last year especially have changed my spending habits for the better, however, I will ALWAYS be more of a spender than a saver, I can’t help it, it’s the way I’m programmed. This could be an issue in the future, but so long as I’m not being stupid and peeing someone else’s money down the drain I don’t see an issue. This is the 21st century and I am still fairly young, I don’t know many people my age that don’t have some sort of debt tbh, be it overdraft or CC. I am not excusing it, it still doesn’t make it right but a lot of people now do have debt. So long as it’s managed and cleared and you’ve learnt from it as a person then it needn’t be the end of the world.

I think the biggest factor/worry for me is that we will always be worlds apart in terms of earnings. I am not on a bad salary, but his salary is nearing the top earners sort of salary, mine is just an everyday salary. Therefore he is always going to be wealthier than me. I have kinda broached this tentatively with him, he has said he doesn’t care how much I earn, but in reality, I think he does/would.

I guess I need to know that if we ever were to get serious that he wouldn’t resent having to subsidise me/our family etc and that I wouldn’t be on a horrible shoe string budget and living miserably.

I’m not sure where people are getting that his brother is in debt from, he wasn’t paying off his brothers debts with his £8k, he was giving £4k to each of his (twin) nephews for their trust fund.

Re his ex, he said she was ‘money orientated’ his brother’s wife and one of his best friends wives both told me in the toilet when we were at a wedding after we’d been together about a year that ‘She expected him to pay for everything all the time and after only 6 months of them going out she was saying how she wanted them to move in together and her give up her job and she only worked 4 days a week anyway!.’

So, in fairness, it was his brother’s wife and best friend’s wife (who are lovely) that have been ‘bad mouthing’ her and calling her a ‘gold digger’ to me, not him.

I will sit him down this weekend and have a proper discussion with him about money, his attitude to it, my attitude to it, our future and how finances would pan out. From that conversation, I will make my mind up.

I think you've answer your own question then. You can live with his attitude towards money. It bugs you but he's too good to let go?

I think that sounds sensible. I also think it seems such a waste to leave someone generally lovely over a stupid comment about a toilet roll tbh!

The £1.78 thing has obviously arisen because he wants to be fair to you as well.

For what it's worth even though my current income far exceeds my bfs if we moved in together I would expect to pay more of the household finances and I wouldn't grudge that. That's perfectly fair. My issue with my ex was that while I was doing that he was running up debt. There was then a lot of pressure on us (well,me) to keep our heads above water. So you do need to be on the same page about this stuff. Not saying you would do that btw (in case I am misconstrued) - just pointing out potential pressure areas.

There may come a day when you tell him your baby needs nappies and formula and he will count out exactly the £11 (or whatever) you need to purchase them.
Despite good intention in the future to continue working after a baby or splitting finances down the middle, the truth is that life can change, redundancy, illness and so on and a committed couple support each other.
I spoke to a lady on another forum recently who had to justify why she needed hair conditioner, an intelligent woman.

Does someone who is happy to give his nephews £4k each really seem like someone who would grudge nappies for nappies for his own child? Really?!!

Yes, if he wants her to bring round loo roll and go halves on pop corn

At the end of the day, he is probably never going to be as generous or laid back about money as I would like. No, he probably wouldn’t ever book a surprise weeknd away all paid for by him….do I want that, yes, am I envious of friends that get that? Yes. However, he is an absolute gem in other ways and the husband of the friend that had the weekend away booked for her can be awful in times of supporting her when she needs it, he expects his dinner on the table at 7pm sharp every evening and literally cannot cook so if she is ill or away, he just gets takeways and leaves her to clear up the mess. I couldn’t live with a man like that and my DP is NOTHING like that.

I suppose I feel a bit inferior because I know that actually, he can be a generous person (as he’s shown with his friends and family) and my only reservation is that that hasn’t yet extended to me and I think that could be because he’s wary about me and money. I need to discuss this with him as I never have as It’s embarrassing to come across like a petulant child, whinging ‘but you are generous to so and so wahhhh.’ But y’know what, maybe that’s what needs to be done.

I guess I have to decide what I'm willing to compromise on in a relationship because no one is perfect

A talk about how he sees things in yhe future, is a good idea Cotswold. I hope it all works out for you.

My DH when we first went out together was earning well in the City (smart car, own flat etc etc) and I was a student. We went out to loads of places and I always offered to pay half and he always accepted, or just assumed and was rigorous about splitting. I was practically bankrupting myself trying to keep up with someone who frankly could afford a more expensive social life than me. In the end a friend of mine had a few drinks and gave him a piece of her mind!
Anyway we've been together for 25 years, he is naturally careful with money but also very generous, maybe a little like your DP (not sure about the loo/cinema incidents though) ' look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves' sort of thing. I've been a SAHM with no problems at all.

I'm the poster who talked about my brother helping to pay his gf (now wife's) debts. What I was trying to say was that they were in a long term serious relationship at that point with plans to eventually get married and have children and so viewed themselves very much as a team. I am not saying that a boyfriend or girlfriend should automatically do this, only that there comes a point in a relationship where you stop thinking of yourselves as totally separate and see yourselves as a team.

My sil really is lovely and is just as generous and kind to my brother. In a couple of years she will gain access to a trust fund and in the earlier days of their relationship her GPs pressured her to use it on a deposit for a house in her name only. My sil said no - that my brother was her life partner and if he was good enough to help her out in her bad times he was good enough to share in her good times. It's about attitude and generosity of spirit for me rather than the actual money.

In my long winded way I am saying that if you don't want to ltb then you need to find out if he is viewing you as a team or just a convenience.

He can spend £30 k on a boat but not pay for a cinema ticket for you. That's awful.

I know you don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water but you don't want to held responsible for every last penny spent on you.

Also very unfair of him to expect you to move in and pay more as a couple than you do as a single person.

Couples usually move in to save money together ( amongst the obvious other things) . He's going to save but you will be much worse off. I'd be saying I can't afford too or is that I can't afford you.

What sort of presents do you get at birthdays/ valentines/ Christmas.

He makes himself sound seriously unloveable by expecting things split to the last penny.

Some serious thinking and talking needed.

Ok I think he sounds very very tight BUT just in case you have skewed things I will give you an example of my friend.

She got together with her now partner, with a fair amount of debt. He paid it off for her, so she never had to face the consequences. They now live together with a child but she still feels entitled to spend his money for him on holidays, expensive baby gear, works part time etc etc. he was always really frugal and the way she lives I can tell makes him really uncomfortable but he says nothing for an easy life.

I feel you trivialise your debt by saying 'a few thousand pounds'. Most people would not be comfortable with that level of debt. I also think you probably got into this debt in part because you and your ex 'treated' each other with money you didn't have. He knows you come from a family that was comfortable in a way you yourself aren't at the moment, so your expectations are out of line with the reality of your income.

If he has been burnt before with regards to money, and he knows you are not great with money, then perhaps he is just making it clear how it will be, that you won't be able to spend his money just because he earns more. Maybe he wants to check before living together that you can live within your means. He also doesn't for sure know your real level of debt I'm guessing?

Trust is earned. I think he will probably have more confidence in your money handling once you have paid your debt off. But saying things like "it's only a tenner" when you are spending right up to the max of your wage each month won't be reassuring him!

I may be far out here as I am reading into things but just another point of view.

The film ticket sounds like punishment for some reason.
Nobody asks for a single ticket if they want to be seating together.
Even with siblings and their families, we often buy it all together and the split it up.
For some reason, thinking about it as punishment makes it even worse than the penny pinching.

The same with the toilet roll. Does he resent you cleaning his place? Or was he angry with you for something else? Because it's such a petty thing.

You said he can be generous with you too, actually. Can you link his generosity and penny pinching to other events than the actual buying/paying for stuff?

Because if it's more than the money, then you have serious problems with him.

I think this is a bigger problem than you want to admit OP.

There are so many men who begrudge their partner not earning as much as they do, begrudge having to spend money on them and the children when but are happy to spend money on their own hobbies and toys, begrudge their partner being a SAHM when they're out earning.

So what you see now could well continue indefinitely. You sound like you're hoping for a point at which you'll 'pass' and be let off.

You say he's your best friend but I would pay for a cinema ticket or popcorn for a friend not even a best friend. To pay individually in that circumstance is just bizarre and inconvenient.

I don't get the sense he sees you as a unit, more as a project.

Does he even understand that women use more loo roll than men and why?

If just find that so disgusting for some reason. A little bit misogynist...

What really stands out in all his nitpickery over Money is this:

Whenever we go out for dinner, it always has to be split, down to the last penny. If I can’t afford to pay half then we (generally, there have been a couple of exceptions) don’t go.

So how and what do you eat? Will he let you go without dinner because you cant afford to eat out?

I stay at his 3, occasionally 4 nights a week, but on the majority of those evenings I bring dinner for us both and wine for myself if drinking it. I clean his house (he is generally tidy but a typical man and can be a bit messy) help to look after his 2 dogs.

You go half half on dinners out, and 3-4 nights you bring food to cook and wine to drink.

And he makes a point about paying you back £1.78, but what about the 3-4 dinners per week that YOU subsidise and cook?

Seems to me that HE is taking advantage of you. He wants to be excruciatingly fair when you are out together, in the guise that he is wants it to be fair for you! And when you are eating in, he lets you pay, and cook the meals. Where is his fairness then?

Do you charge him groceries?