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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What if...

114 replies

tuppenneth · 12/05/2015 22:38

..somebody had it in them to change positively, to work harder on a relationship , to open up more , share their feelings better and to make their partner who had previously felt neglected or unloved , feel cherished and wanted again , but never got the chance because of the one sided advice picked up from some of the posters on here?

What if someone had genuine depression and suicidal thoughts as the result of a relationship breakdown , but the ex partner completely ignored the warning signs and pleas for help because the same section of posters that show up on all of the threads of a similar nature , warned the poster that it was 100% just another example of the emotional abuse script? What if the thoughts / pleas / god forbid, actions , turned out to be bona fide?

I get the feeling that far too many posters are a little trigger happy for one reason or another. Why does the stock answer more often than not , have to be to run away?

I can predict some of the suspicious responses that I'll probably get to this before i've even finished typing. Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm

OP posts:
Joysmum · 13/05/2015 08:08

I totally agree.

I've often posted that if DH or o had been on here in the eay years of our relationships we wouldn't be happilly married now.

I do like to post to explain how we've overcome various problems at various times because quite often I'm in a minority doing that.

It's not always been easy, we've had quite a bit to work through although outsiders looking in think we have charmed lives!

I'm not saying all can be fixed but I am saying that before a LTB a tgeres a process that needs to be gone through where you need to satisfy yourself that all hope has gone before you can move on.

singleusenick · 13/05/2015 08:28

If someone is going to commit suicide, there is nothing anyone can do to prevent it. Of that, I am (sadly) very sure.

I wouldn't ignore suicide threats either. If someone made them to me, I would take appropriate action - which is to phone the police or ambulance service in a crisis situation, or advise them to seek help themselves from A&E or the Samaritans.

Anyone who tries to deal with a suicidal person themselves when they are unqualified to do so is a dangerous idiot. What are you trying to suggest people should do?

In my experience of suicide, there is nothing you can do stop someone determined to do it, and that the more threats and noise someone makes about it after a relationship break-up, the less they like having it taken seriously.

I remember years ago going out with a friend one Saturday night. She had recently broken up with her boyfriend but was still living with him. He would regularly threaten suicide and that night he started texting her to say he's drunk a bottle of something and taken pills and was writing goodbye notes. Instead of rushing back, which is what she wanted to do I convinced her to call 999 and let the police and ambulance deal with it. (If it was genuine, we were too far away to check first before phoning). Boy, was he fucked off to have to deal with police and paramedics, but he never threatened suicide again and 10 years later he's alive and kicking.

Ellie88 · 13/05/2015 08:42

LTB! Oh sorry wrong thread!

Waltermittythesequel · 13/05/2015 08:50

An alternative of course, is to not treat your wife so badly that she leaves and then follow her around an Internet forum like a bad smell that won't fuck off.

ToastedOrFresh · 13/05/2015 09:03

Annie - don't criticize AF. That's a fast track to a site ban you know.

Skiptonlass · 13/05/2015 09:04

Well, the problem is that when you see the same thing happen over and over again, you see the pattern. Spouse a treats spouse b appallingly. Spouse b (and it can go both ways, men can be the targets too, although the majority of it seems to be male invited) gets ground down. Spouse b's friends say 'he's a shit, leave.' Spouse b denies it, spouse a keeps on bullying.

It's depressing, predictable and it just keeps happening. Why should the partner you abused stick around for your attempts to change? If I cheated on my husband, broke him down mentally and threatened him, he'd leave. He wouldn't stick around listening to me snivel about how I'd change.

If I transgressed once, begged forgiveness and genuinely changed, maybe he'd stay. I hope he would. Marriage can be hard work, you have ups and downs and it's well worth battling through the tough times together, with help if needed.

But there's a huge difference between working through a rough patch together, and staying through ten years of abuse, laziness, affairs etc. the stock answer isn't 'ltb'. It's 'is this something you can work through or is it a pattern of abuse which won't change, in which case ltb.'

So: lost job/child's illness leading to snappiness, arguments, loss of sex life, drinking too much = counselling, work through it, etc.

Any emotional, physical, sexual or financial abuse = run for the hills.

Which one are you, OP?

Anniegetyourgun · 13/05/2015 09:09

I tend to say "run away" myself when they've only recently started dating and she really really likes the guy EXCEPT... Should she stay and help him work them out? Should she hell. Support someone who's already taking steps to help themselves, by all means if you have the time and energy (depending on what the problems are). But a boyfriend is not a project.

Anniegetyourgun · 13/05/2015 09:24

Annie - don't criticize AF. That's a fast track to a site ban you know.

Eh? Sorry if I didn't express myself clearly, but I wasn't criticising AF. I worship AF. If we disagree on a point we're perfectly capable of discussing it like real growed ups and indeed have done so on the rare occasions we weren't on the same wavelength. And I really can't see MN Towers banning anyone for criticising a poster's point of view. Personal attacks are different, you can and will be banned for those and rightly so, regardless of how long either the attacker or the attackee has been on here. (Around seven or eight years for me. I've had I think it's two posts deleted in that time, may have been three.)

What I meant was that saying she must be supremely arrogant for not engaging with an argument is like calling chicken. Nobody is obliged to join an argument unless they want to. "D'you know what, I can't be bothered" is as reasonable a response as any. You can draw what conclusions you like from it, but you can't force 'em to engage. MN posters are not employed to work here. They dip in and out as they please, support whom they please; most will try to be helpful, others like to stir it but fortunately usually stick to AIBU where they can get away with more. It's that way btw >>>>>

hellsbellsmelons · 13/05/2015 09:24

This is just so thick I can't even be arsed
Like this! ^^

And yes AF is ALWAYS right!
HTH

NettleTea · 13/05/2015 09:32

somebody had it in them to change positively, to work harder on a relationship , to open up more , share their feelings better and to make their partner who had previously felt neglected or unloved , feel cherished and wanted again , but never got the chance because of the one sided advice picked up from some of the posters on here?

why would someone, who supposedly loved and cherished their partner, need to 'work hard' to change positively? Serious question. Why have they 'changed' away from the person who wooed and married their partner - what attitudes allowed them to take the partner for granted, to leave them feeling neglected and unloved. If behaving in the new improved way means TRYING or an effort, then it is all an act, not a natural way to be. I doubt that the requests to 'open up' or to engage emotionally in the relationship havent come out of the blue. I am assuming that the partner has expressed their unhappiness many times, perhaps for years, before leaving, especially if they have resorted to coming onto MN for advice. Why have these requests been ignored until now? Why was the 'effort and hard work' to change not undertaken until the OPs partner has actually left, when, to be honest, any love has probably gone right out the window due to having their needs ignored for so long.

What if someone had genuine depression and suicidal thoughts as the result of a relationship breakdown , but the ex partner completely ignored the warning signs and pleas for help because the same section of posters that show up on all of the threads of a similar nature , warned the poster that it was 100% just another example of the emotional abuse script? What if the thoughts / pleas / god forbid, actions , turned out to be bona fide?

It is absolutely normal to be upset/devastated at the breakdown of a relationship. You have lost something, a relationship has died, and you need to go through a grieving process similar to a bereavement. Its horrible and its tough. I think it is wrong to compare the feelings around a breakup with clinical depression, which most likely would have cropped up at a previous point in your life. But, assuming that the depression could be genuine, then professional help should be sought. Its not up to the ex partner to 'come back' in order to cure the depression. If it is a GENUINE clinical depression, the ex partner coming back wouldn't cure it anyway. Why should you feel that your ex, who has expressed that they do not want to be in a relationship with you, should give up their right to free choice because your feelings are more important? And this dramatical talk of suidcide? I hope that any children are not witnessing this, because this is serious emotional manipulation and can have a huge impact upon them. If you are suicidal then you need mental heath support. If you tell your ex that you are suicidal then her response should be to call 999. If facing life on your own is so traumatic that it makes you that mentally unwell then to be honest, you are not emotionally stable enough to be in a relationship anyway, you are co-dependant - looking to pass the responsibility of your life and happiness onto someone elses shoulders. You need therapy. Seriously.

I get the feeling that far too many posters are a little trigger happy for one reason or another. Why does the stock answer more often than not , have to be to run away?

stock answer is not to run away. Stock answer when people who know the signs MAY be LTB, but not without counselling, not without alot of support, not without exploring other avenues if the partner isnt abusive. But when abuse shows up there really isnt any other answer to give.

I can predict some of the suspicious responses that I'll probably get to this before i've even finished typing. hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm hmm

This fairly flippant remark, complete with hmmmmmmssss exposes the contempt you feel for the women on this site. You will get some short sharp replies. But will you be honest enough to answer the questions raised by those who dont tell you to jog on? That will demonstrate whether you are actually capeable of even attempting any of the hard work needed to change. Not for your ex. I suspect the boat has already sailed there - behaviour pattens are too deeply entrenched, even if you genuinely WANTED to change, it would be nigh on impossible with her, as the habits of interaction are practically hard wired between the two of you. But if you want to make you next relationship healthy, if you want it to be an equally supportive experience, then you need to get yourself some serious therapy. We all have demons in our closet. We all make mistakes in relationships, we all carry baggage from our pasts which, without opening the closets and looking under the carpets, can have seriously negative impacts on our interactions with others. Looking at those things, facing our dark side, is not pleasant and is not easy, and it isnt a quick fix BUT it is essential if you want to have a relationship where both people are happy.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 13/05/2015 10:06

Random poster:
For the last two years, DH has been treating me very badly. He criticizes me in front of the kids/friends. We don't have sex anymore. I suspect he is having an affair. Last night he called me a fat cunt and kicked me.

The op here:
Aww. Poor DH. He probably really is trying very hard to change. I bet he loves you very much. Most men love their wives. I imagine he feels very unhappy. How about love-bombing him? Lose weight? Get some sexy undies?

gatewalker · 13/05/2015 10:11

I agree, OP.

Anniegetyourgun · 13/05/2015 10:33

A counsellor once asked me what my reaction would be if XH were to get therapy and change fundamentally and become the kind of man he could/should have been. I said I didn't think he was capable of that kind of change, but if it did happen I would welcome it for his sake, the DC's and any future partners. For myself it was too late to make a difference as the respect had thoroughly gone. I just could not imagine going back into a relationship with him. All the vipers in the world couldn't have caused that change; he did it himself over a lot of years. I don't deny for one minute that we had some good times but they honestly couldn't make up for the shit. Once the eyes have opened it's impossible to just close them again and pretend certain things didn't happen. Had any damned fool tried to get us together again I'd probably have bitten them.

woowoo22 · 13/05/2015 18:13

Take some FUCKING responsibility OP.

Everything is not someone else's fault.

tuppenneth · 13/05/2015 19:57

You know NOTHING about me , woowoo . So you , and some others , can put them pitchforks away and stop proving my point for me. Thanks.

OP posts:
AccordingtoMe · 13/05/2015 20:03

Tuppeneth I would like to read your response to NettleTeas very well thought out and reasoned response to your post please.

AnyFucker · 13/05/2015 20:05

You will have a long wait, AtM

OP ain't here for the "reasoned"

AmINeedy · 13/05/2015 20:31

I must agree but I put it down to the different types of people we are.
Many people give their views and judgements when they have no empathy but guess how they'd react, a big mistake .
Those of us who are a little less trigger happy with more experience reply gently.
I'm guessing MN reach people from 18-100 and being anonymous some people just say it as it is.
It's a gamble which advice to listen to and a gamble on mums net , I know I sought advice , it helps me get a perspective from good advice but there were some last year who seemed to take great joy out of criticising my wimpy thought xx but over all I got lots of good advice which helped me to make the right choice to end my marriage , mums net was there for me when I couldn't talk to anyone close to me ????

AmINeedy · 13/05/2015 20:35

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

StaceyAndTracey · 13/05/2015 20:37

That's a bit of a personal attack , am I needy

AnyFucker · 13/05/2015 20:49

AmINeedy, you have held on to that disgruntlement for "a few years" ?

You have name changed so have the advantage on me. Maybe you could enlighten me by pm and take your beef off the boards where it doesn't belong. Any comments I have ever made to anybody on here have not been hidden by a name change and made openly. I will also apologise with good grace if I go too far.

Estcal · 13/05/2015 21:38

Seems to be a large amount of sock puppetry going on in this thread...

woowoo22 · 13/05/2015 21:43

I know what you wrote in your posts on this thread.

Not rocket science is it?

NettleTea · 13/05/2015 21:44

You know NOTHING about me , woowoo . So you , and some others , can put them pitchforks away and stop proving my point for me. Thanks.

As I suspected, the OP has decided that we are all 'pitching in' and thats them done.

As I suggested in my last point - if they are actually willing to answer the questions, then they may have half a chance to make the changes.

AccordingtoMe · 13/05/2015 21:46

Your post was excellent NettleTea

Shame it didn't evoke a decent response, I was genuinely interested.