What if...

[tuppenneth]

..somebody had it in them to change positively, to work harder on a relationship , to open up more , share their feelings better and to make their partner who had previously felt neglected or unloved , feel cherished and wanted again , but never got the chance because of the one sided advice picked up from some of the posters on here?

What if someone had genuine depression and suicidal thoughts as the result of a relationship breakdown , but the ex partner completely ignored the warning signs and pleas for help because the same section of posters that show up on all of the threads of a similar nature , warned the poster that it was 100% just another example of the emotional abuse script? What if the thoughts / pleas / god forbid, actions , turned out to be bona fide?

I get the feeling that far too many posters are a little trigger happy for one reason or another. Why does the stock answer more often than not , have to be to run away?

I can predict some of the suspicious responses that I'll probably get to this before i've even finished typing.

[NettleTea]

I too would have been interested, but I suspect that the OP wanted to be told that the ex was throwing it all away on a whim, due to the meddling of MN, and if they killed themselves it would be All The Ex's Fault because they didnt take the threats seriously.

[AccordingtoMe]

I agree and its very sad the OP seems so angry and blaming the supportive posters on here; AF being one who supported me not very long ago.

The capacity to look inwards and questions ones own behaviour in a relationship breakdown seems to have passed this one by I think.

[AnyFucker]

I think you have it spot on, NT

[AnyFucker]

and AtM

[AnyFucker]

incidentally, a rather cryptic post on another thread may have revealed OP's real issue

I can't link on my phone and the thread was due for deletion anyway, rather interestingly

[GoatsDoRoam]

Which would make this a TAAT, and therefore also deletable, yes?

[AnyFucker]

and possibly an offence that HQ would frown upon

[tuppenneth]

Nettle - Perhaps I didn't address your series of points as they were largely rhetorical ,extremely presumptuous and at times very condescending?? The last 3 lines aside.

[iwashappy]

OP if "..somebody had it in them to change positively, to work harder on a relationship , to open up more , share their feelings better and to make their partner who had previously felt neglected or unloved , feel cherished and wanted again" can I suggest why they didn't bother behaving in a positive way to start with then there wouldn't have been any need to post on here in the first place.

Most people in a healthy relationship feel their partner loves them and doesn't neglect them even if there's a few ups and downs. So for someone to feel neglected and unloved the other person must have been treating them pretty badly.

If someone has it in them to change then why haven't they done so already? Promising to change and actually doing it over a period of time are two entirely different things.

If a poster comes on and says that their partner has changed and shown through actions over a decent period of time rather than saying their partner has claimed they will change you might find the response is slightly different.

Why would you suggest someone stays in a shit relationship where they feel neglected and unloved. There might be some occasions where LTB seems a bit extreme but there's also plenty of occasions where someone doesn't and then posts a lot later on to say the partner didn't change and they should have LTB when it was suggested the first time.

[AmyElliotDunne]

I also thought Nettle's post was excellent and more accurately describes most of the posts I have read on MN than the OP.

There are 2 types of LTB. The one where it's a new relationship and the guy is displaying dickishness from day one, but the poster is trying to excuse it away because she is enjoying the good parts, but everyone else, without the emotional involvement, can see it for what it is. She owes him nothing, she owes herself a happy and carefree relationship with an emotionally mature man.

Then there's the one where the OP's partner has treated her like shit for years, but sadly the OP is so worn down that she (I'm going with she not she/he and I don't care) can't see the wood for the trees. That was me btw, and of course AF and many other wise posters helped me to see that nothing I did could change him, the relationship was doomed and that I could be happier without XH.

He had been given 14 years to be a better DH but chosen instead to be a selfish emotionally abusive arsehole. I wasted all those years trying hard, giving him more chances to be better, grinding myself into the ground trying to be a perfect wife. Fwiw, we now get on well and are actually friends, but he is still not happy and I have a wonderful DP.

If I get the chance to warn someone not to waste their life when they could be loved and happy, I'm going to yell LTB from the rooftops and I won't apologise for it.

[tuppenneth]

AnyFucker Wed 13-May-15 23:12:16
incidentally, a rather cryptic post on another thread may have revealed OP's real issue
I can't link on my phone and the thread was due for deletion anyway, rather interestingly

GoatsDoRoam Wed 13-May-15 23:31:09
Which would make this a TAAT, and therefore also deletable, yes?

AnyFucker Wed 13-May-15 23:42:15
and possibly an offence that HQ would frown upon

Dear Me

You mean the 'cryptic'** comment that I made on a thread where someone had accidentally .................................................................................................................................................and quite comically changed name to"....................................."and then started a thread called ".................................................................................................."

I had typed all that out but as the poster is trying to get the thread deleted I don't think it would be fair to publish it again.

Sorry to disappoint you, Columbo, but that isn't me the poster is talking about. I was merely commenting on the ingenious name change , given what had happened. I'm guessing you don't do Irony AF?

I started this thread of my own free will and have had some people agreeing with my points, others with reasoned responses , a few sceptical raised eye brows - which I knew would happen , and a healthy scattering of outright rude and accusatory popshots.

**not at all cryptic

[Coyoacan]

OP, I suppose I read too fast, but haven't noticed the people agreeing with you. The power of the written word is marvellous to be sure, but people don't leave good relationships just because someone like the wonderful Any Fucker tells them to.

I wish mumsnet had been around when I was young, the advice here is often brilliant.

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

Oh god yes, Coy! If MN had been behind me in my late teens/early twenties, I would have had so much more confidence to listen to my instincts

You see I have a right to leave a relationship for whatever reason I want. Be it "his toenails are a funny shape" or "some strangers on the internet told me to".

If I want to go, those are reasons to. And here's the kicker, my ex doesn't have to agree with my reason! He can think I'm an idiot and throwing it all away for nothing. Isn't that great? I can actually do something just because I want to.

[NettleTea]

I fail to see where my questions were rhetorical, and only presumptious in the last case, in speculating the response/thought you have about Mumsnet.

basically just 2 questions.

Why do you need to TRY SO HARD to be emotionally present within the relationship and make your partner feel loved?

Why do you feel that your real clinical depression/threat of suicide can only be fixed by your ex coming back, rather than seeking a professional to help you deal with emotions which are not a normal reaction to a relationship break up?

[Anniegetyourgun]

In honour of this thread yesterday I re-read the tree parable in "Why Does He Do That?" It takes the offender through the steps they need to make restitution, and one of the points is that they need to accept the offended party may never forgive them and isn't obliged to. Another step was taking responsibility for the consequences of your own actions. Not "those vipers on Mumsnet told her not to go back to me, it's all their fault" but "I loused up big-time and I understand why she might not want to go back to me and that she has every right not to". Unless and until an abuser accepts these points they will never be cured. They can mend their behaviour to a certain extent but the underlying attitude will always be there, ruining any chance of an equal, respectful relationship with the ex-partner or any others in the future.

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

Beautifully put, Annie.

[StaceyAndTracey]

Excellent point Annie, it's both things isn't it

• Inability to see that i have messed up ( won't take responsibility for own actions )
  

• Unwillingness to accept that my partner has a mind of her own and a right to leave it she wants to ( won't accept her full humanity )
  

So the obvious solution is to sort out these vipers, give them a piece of my mind and point out the error of their ways . Rather than do some painful work on myself so I have a hope of making any future relationship work

[cailindana]

If someone has it in them to be more change positively and work harder on a relationship, why don't they do it? Is it up to the other partner to force them to be decent?

The long and the short of it is, if you don't want to be in a relationship you have every right to walk away, no matter what the other person is like and no matter how many threats of suicide they make. Starting a relationship is not a prison sentence that you have to see out to the bitter end no matter how badly you're treated. Neither partner is required to try to make the other partner any different or better. If someone comes on here saying they've been treated badly it makes absolutely no sense to say to that person "it's up to you now to make your partner treat you better." Why would anyone give that advice? It is shit, awful advice. If someone is treating you badly, you talk to them and tell them to stop and then if they won't stop you walk away. You don't stick around and hope that they'll some day realise that they can't walk all over you and treat you like shit. You don't wait and hope that they "have it in them" to not be a shithead. That's just a pointless waste of time.

[GoatsDoRoam]

So, OP is miffed that there is a place on the Internet where women tell each other: "You don't need to stick around for more of this shit, you know," and is rather of the opinion that women owe the men who are making them miserable an eternal supply of second chances, for as long as it suits the man in question, and screw the fact that woman has reached the end of her tether.

What an admirable point of view.

[FuckYouChrisAndThatHorse]

LondonZoo, also a great post.

Isn't it, goats? Women! You are here to improve us! To make us better people! We must be allowed as many chances as it takes regardless of the effect on you! For you should be grateful that I want to be with you, even though you haven't yet succeeded in improving me as a human!

[JohnFarleysRuskin]

That is it, Goats.

With a little - if a man kills himself - it is the woman's fault - and the awful evil woman on the internet who created it all.

[cailindana]

Given how people like tuppeneth portray relationships, I wonder why they expect women to be in them at all really, they just sound like torture.

From what I can see, people who object to so-called 'LTB' advice seem to think that the process of relationships for women is:
Find a man - get treated like shit - hope he'll change - get treated more like shit - ask for advice - be told you need to take more shit and give him a chance to change - lose all confidence - end up a shell of a person. And if she does have the temerity not to want to be in that cycle of torture, then the man has the go-to tactic of threatening suicide. He threatens suicide and, hey presto! she's required to come back no matter how awful it is. She just can't get away, it's a prison. She has to put up with all sorts of behaviour all because he's depressed. He suits himself, just swings his dick around behaving like an arsehole and it's totally her duty all the time to keep the relationship going. Sounds like the shittest deal ever. Why would any woman want that?

In actual fact relationships should be:
Get together with someone lovely - have a lovely time - have a bit of a hard time and realise that you both need to work on some things - work through and it and get closer - support each other - have a lovely time - develop more respect and love for each other - support each other - have a shit time but be better now at getting through it - have a bad time where you're both a bit rubbish - perhaps question things - talk it through - start to see the light again - reach an understanding - forgive each other and let things go - fall back in love again - have a lovely time and so on. Relationships are optional things that should enhance your life. They are not trips to purgatory or exercises in punishment.

[cailindana]

I also think the idea that it's anyone's job to make anyone else better is bizarre. Do people really go through life thinking "I'll find a partner and she/he will make me not shit"?

Actually, maybe they do. Doesn't Michael Buble have that awful song where he says "And I know one day that it'll all work out/And you'll make me work so we can work to work it out/...and baby your love is gonna change me"

Eh, no sorry Michael. It's actually up to you not to be shithead and to come to a relationship as a decent person willing to treat the other person with respect. It's not up to your partner to "make you work."