AIBU to leave DP because he's not very bright

[williaminajetfighter]

It's brutal I know but I just don't think I can stay with DP any longer because I find him quite ignorant and not very bright, and it is causing huge problems in our relationship and communication.

I know DP had a pretty poor education, left school at 15 and so is lacking in traditional educational knowledge. Grammar, spelling are very poor as is his general knowledge of maths, literature etc. His parents did nothing to foster a love of learning.

But then there is 'learned knowledge' since then and he isn't intellectually curious, hasn't really picked up a book since school, barely reads a paper (except the Metro) and thus has a fairly limited worldview. He actually shows disdain for knowledge, IYSWIM.

Finally I just don't think he's very sharp so he doesn't pick things up quickly.

It sounds incredibly mean when I write it all down but it causes huge problems on an everyday basis. For instance things I've faced this weekend in our conversations:

(a) I tried to talk to him about politics but the conversation blew up because he's so uninformed and got angry when I used the word 'libertarian' (really);
(b) I tried to have a conversation with him about household finances (which I lead) but he hates numbers and got cross;

(c) I tried to have a conversation with him about some elements of childcare such as more natural ways of dealing with baby eczema or limiting paracetemol but he thinks whatever I read is nonsense because all parenting should be 'assumed' and
(d) I tried to talk to him about about being a vegetarian and having veggie-only nights for the children but he scoffs at me because he's read nothing about the merits of vegetarianism.

These are just a few things I dealt with over the weekend and a reflection of my day to day. The other day I made a reference to Pip from Great Expectations - a pretty well known tome - and he just looked at me blankly. It sounds trite but it's pretty wearing.

When we got together I found him 'light and fun' and the years after were heavily 'operational' focusing on getting a house and having young children. Now that time has passed and we have more time for each other I am finding that we are just not a meeting of the minds and his ignorance and lack of intellectual curiosity is really offputting. I would like to grow older with someone who I can have engaging conversations with and although he is a fine father and a supportive partner who has never cheated and is really loyal, I just don't think I can be with him.

It sounds so harsh but AIBU? Has anyone else experienced this? From his POV I suppose it's not really fair to stay with him if I think he's not bright!

I don't think the OP's husband is overdosing the children on paracetemol, more that she wanted to talk about the research that shows it's not great to always reach for the paracetemol, whereas her husband would just shovel it down.

I think there's lots of things going on here- even if you are intellectually well matched which I am with my husband in some ways, things like differences in parenting styles will occur- I am the paracetemol giver here and I even gave it to the children secretly (infrequently) because I know he disapproved.

I know quite a few couples who are not intellectually well matched, interestingly two where the women are cleverer and better educated than the men, in one it is a huge problem and the woman struggles with staying in the marriage and in the other, the husband is not particularly clever but he is very interested in his wife, supportive at home, so although he's not Brain of Britain, he's good company for her and their life together functions pretty well.

Your problem here, if you believe John Gottman, is not that your husband is a bit stupid, but that you have both started to despise and dislike each other over it- your posts are verging on contemptuous to him. It is this that is undermining your marriage rather than the fact he doesn't know who Pip is in Great Expectations (neither would my husband as he is not from the UK).

Very interesting thread - I know a female Noa btw...was this Noah written down e.g. Was spelling visible?

I'm more 'intelligent/ educated than my DP, and there are some things I'm interested in that he's not. But he's very intelligent with food and with music and in bed (I call him the Professer!) and is funny, and likes a good chinwag, and can discuss lots of things, so I don't mind. I read a lot but I don't discuss literature with him, as he never reads novels.
Is he really willfully ignorant or insecure about certain things? Do you still enjoy sex with him? Have you got an emotional bond, or do you think you could get it back if it's gone?

If you're not matched intellectually then of course you might not be happy long - term and should question and perhaps end your relationship.

But don't pretend it's because he's 'not very bright'. You've always known that but previously, you were willing to ignore that because he gave you what you wanted or needed at that time and were willing to overlook the negatives.

End it because you're not compatible or grown apart or whatever - everyone is entitled to end any relationship. However, don't claim it's because of this flaw in him. You've always known about that but it served you well to ignore it in the past.

Fascinating thread. I appreciate your frustrations. He isn't getting your cultural emergencies and that must be irritating but are there things that he is good at or intellectually curious about? Science, art, cinema? In other words, can you focus more on his positives enough to just shrug it off?

I also think the key problem here is not the mismatched intellects but the fact that your DP is being obstructive when you try to engage him in certain discussions. That said, I do think some of the things you talk about (in your examples) are sort of fuelling the fire.

I sense a very deep disconnect between you two. Is there any way at all that you could join forces, e.g. A shared hobby or interest? And then save those types of intellectual discussion for your other friends? It is difficult to have all of our needs fulfilled by just one person. He might then be a little relieved and be more open and less obstructive when your shared ideas again.

It's said a lot on here that The grass is greener where you water it. Plus, this is not to say that if you split with your DP you will find somebody who you are perfectly intellectually matched with that doesn't have some kind of other major incompatibility.

I think...do your best for a year or so. Sit down, talk to him about it and try to re-engage in a way where you are both on a level. Look at all the things you value about him and focus on the positives. He will then begin to feel more positive and may start to react differently. It's got to be worth a try.

My father is very much more intellectual than my mother but they have been married 40 or so years. He doesn't bore her with the minutiae of archtectural history for example but they have shared interests like gardening and he goes off and does his own thing and she does too. The key is mutual respect for each other's interests and mutual respect for each other not really being interested in certain of each others' opinions or academic interests or feigning interest when they ally have to /being willing to engage!

I'm not saying you can definitely work this out. I can see you certainly have a problem. But I do think it's worth re calibrating the relationship and giving it a try.

By the way, I'm educated to post graduate level and have a modicum of intellectual curiosity but I don't know what a libertarian is, wouldn't want to discuss vegetarianism and haven't read great expectations! I wouldn't react how your DP did....but just thought it was worth saying.

Good luck!

*cultural references, not "emergencies" !

at cultural emergencies!

Only you can say if your marriage can be saved OP. But I just wanted to mention one thing that stood out to me. You said that he even asked what a pronoun was. I was very good academically but I was still well into my thirties before I knew what a pronoun was. But it is not his ignorance of it that caught my attention, but that he asked. You ask, you get an answer and then you know. It can be hard to ask.

He doesn't sound thick to me, he sounds uneducated and a bit proud. My dgd's father behaves similarly re reading about childcare and paracetamol. He can be very interesting and is good at what he does but I think my dd can be a bit much sometimes and he just sticks his heels in.

Oh and I like your advice Bryony.

Good point. I'm a teacher and I have had to learn grammar as I went along; it wasn't taught when I was at school.

The Calpol reference "He would literally dose her with calpol everytime she cried.".

"Literally"? I'd call Social Services!

There are a lot of claims of superior intelligence on this thread. Many of them are made by people who can't spell simple words or who seem unable to use them correctly.

Just saying.

Awww thank you charley50

I think modern life creates so many variants in relationships that previous generations (1960s and prior) didn't really face.

Society is more democratic perhaps, in the sense that we socialise with many types of people and not just those in our "class" whether that be social or educational. Women also have much better access to education, allowing themselves the privilege to develop to their full potential intellectually. So we fall in love with people who may be very different to us intellectually or socially.

But variety is also the spice of life ands while recognise that this problem may not be surmountable for the OP, it is worth trying to make it work and sharing interests and exchanging ideas with her DP that they both can relate to. OP, you fell in love with this man for a reason and you also mention his very very good qualities, time to look at those again, see if that softens his attitude, and look to fulfilling yourself intellectually outside of the marriage.

Well, is he funny?

If he's funny he must be somewhat clever.

But, anyway, if he's funny, kind and good looking and you're still this concerned about his intelligence, ditch him, because he's not right for you. If he isn't any of the first three, I'm not sure why you're with him anyway.

And....I just googled what a pronoun is...

Yes, is he funny? That is key for me and definitely shows intelligence. Personally, my favourite type of intelligence.

Also, OP, if you fell in love with your DP in the first place you must be the type of person who appreciates people who are different to yourself. Otherwise you wouldn't have entertained this guy, let alone had a family with him. I think therefore you do have some capacity for being flexible here and you should analyse that and see if you can plumb it's depths!

Poor you, will!

I'm an armchair (mostly) activist. The groups & organisations I am part of feature a very high proportion of 'university of life' types; the kind who take pride in their ignorance of nuance, background and context in their political arguments. They simply hate everyone who isn't with them, seem incapable of thinking through the processes of change, and they all use the same phrases all the time. As far I can see they're motivated by envy & resentment and don't go beyond that because they are both thick and wilfully ignorant.

I also know some uneducated activists who're incredibly sharp, grasp context & nuance much faster than most, and who can make a breathtakingly incisive argument using ordinary language. They are neither ignorant nor thick, just uneducated.

Sounds like your H is more like the first lot than the second. It's a very dispiriting attitude and I don't blame you in the slightest for wanting to reduce its presence in your family life. Tell him it's due to 'ideological dissimilarities' - his response should remind you why YANBU!

Tbh knowing who Pip is is knowledge not intelligence.

Yeah, Charley, but you can say "Who?" or you can go into an aggressive rant. Sounds like Will's DP never misses an opportunity to parade his ignorance in a confrontational manner.

Basically, he's putting her down every time he does it - not just her education, but the whole of her interests, world view and who she is.

I'm surprised that so many people think this is something OP can just put up with. Must say I'm a bit baffled at how the relationship could have got this far in the first place, but really, these two people sound like they will make each other miserable. His lack of education clearly isn't the problem, she's known about that all along. His lack of any desire to take in new ideas is the problem, and it's becoming very apparent to her now that they're not both busy with house buying and small children. Unfortunate, but what's done is done. It's not going to be great for the kids to watch Mum and Dad steadily losing all respect for one another, is it?

DH and I have totally different abilities. He reads at a snail's pace compared to me, I'm hopeless at maths compared to him - but it all works because we have common ground, we're open to learning and we're just honest about it when we've no clue what the other one is on about. It's fine to go "this is getting a bit out of my depth, sorry" or "can you explain X?", but it's not fine to get cross because the other person used a word you didn't understand. And 'libertarian' really isn't an unreasonable word to use.

Nor is it weird to want to talk about introducing meat-free days at home - obviously he can question it or disagree, but that's not the same thing as sneering because it's a new idea to him and therefore must be bollocks. And he can't just get pissed off when she brings up the family finances, simply because numbers are hard - they both need to know about that, even if she has the greater responsibility for handling it. Plus I would seriously struggle to parent alongside anyone who's not even interested in why paracetamol is not fucking candy to be used whether a child is ill or not. Seriously, there is stuff you need to know as a parent, you can't just make it all up yourself because you think learning is for losers.

Oh, so he feels embarrassed and defensive because he didn't get much education - hang on, why's it up to the OP to tiptoe around the issue for the rest of their lives? Should she pretend not to give a damn about what the kids eat in case she damages his feelings by introducing him to a new concept? He's a grown man!

True Gralick, I was just being facetious. Sorry OP.

DP & I are poles apart in levels of education but we are intellectual equals.

It's so important.

In your shoes i'd try counselling because you have small dc and a long history together - you've stopped having fun together and Dh sounds like he is being overly defensive and you are always on the attack/not feeling listened to. Fwiw my DH is much smarter than me and I do feel it has eroded my confidence & made me more anxious about my intellect over time.

Oh dear, Apple, that's a pity. Sounds like your DH could do more for your confidence. Have you tried counselling to help even things up between you?

Twinklestein So discussing politics, household finances, childcare - including eczema and paracetamol overuse - and vegetarianism is 'pseudo-intellectual'? Seriously?

No, not at all. Calling someone "not very bright" for not wishing to discuss these topics is.

If 'libertarian' is a 'vague term' where does that leave 'pseudo-intellectual'?

A description of a capability dressed up to make the bearer seem more intellectual than they are. Often found in the attitudes of people who lack formal, academic education in an area, but who think name dropping or having very forceful views is an alternative.

We get them in law all the time. Barrack-room lawyers.

Disclaimer: I fully retract my opinion should the OP hold degrees in English literature, political science, home economics, childcare and health and nutrition, and regularly contributes to academic journals on these subjects. For others, unless you are very, very interested in "housy stuff", I think its understandable not to want to have conversations about them at home all that often.