AIBU to leave DP because he's not very bright

[williaminajetfighter]

It's brutal I know but I just don't think I can stay with DP any longer because I find him quite ignorant and not very bright, and it is causing huge problems in our relationship and communication.

I know DP had a pretty poor education, left school at 15 and so is lacking in traditional educational knowledge. Grammar, spelling are very poor as is his general knowledge of maths, literature etc. His parents did nothing to foster a love of learning.

But then there is 'learned knowledge' since then and he isn't intellectually curious, hasn't really picked up a book since school, barely reads a paper (except the Metro) and thus has a fairly limited worldview. He actually shows disdain for knowledge, IYSWIM.

Finally I just don't think he's very sharp so he doesn't pick things up quickly.

It sounds incredibly mean when I write it all down but it causes huge problems on an everyday basis. For instance things I've faced this weekend in our conversations:

(a) I tried to talk to him about politics but the conversation blew up because he's so uninformed and got angry when I used the word 'libertarian' (really);
(b) I tried to have a conversation with him about household finances (which I lead) but he hates numbers and got cross;

(c) I tried to have a conversation with him about some elements of childcare such as more natural ways of dealing with baby eczema or limiting paracetemol but he thinks whatever I read is nonsense because all parenting should be 'assumed' and
(d) I tried to talk to him about about being a vegetarian and having veggie-only nights for the children but he scoffs at me because he's read nothing about the merits of vegetarianism.

These are just a few things I dealt with over the weekend and a reflection of my day to day. The other day I made a reference to Pip from Great Expectations - a pretty well known tome - and he just looked at me blankly. It sounds trite but it's pretty wearing.

When we got together I found him 'light and fun' and the years after were heavily 'operational' focusing on getting a house and having young children. Now that time has passed and we have more time for each other I am finding that we are just not a meeting of the minds and his ignorance and lack of intellectual curiosity is really offputting. I would like to grow older with someone who I can have engaging conversations with and although he is a fine father and a supportive partner who has never cheated and is really loyal, I just don't think I can be with him.

It sounds so harsh but AIBU? Has anyone else experienced this? From his POV I suppose it's not really fair to stay with him if I think he's not bright!

I think I left all my previous relationships because they weren't very bright...I'd never put up with it again.

Being intellectually compatible is massive. It's nothing to do with education, nothing to do with interests, nothing to do with culture, its to do with finding the other person interesting, and respecting their mind.

in out case gralick dh is aware that I've become much less confident over time and we are trying various things.

I don't think it's very bright getting tied down to a guy with a incompatable intellectual outlook if that is important to you.

Not very clever of the OP.

I do enjoy the company of clever men. It wouldn't get to the second date unless he could stimulate me in that department.

I think its understandable not to want to have conversations about them at home all that often.

It's not clear that he wants to talk about these things ever. And it's not remotely reasonable for a father and a member of the household to expect never to have to think about childcare and household finance.

For that matter, it's bloody absurd to set the standard of "informed" as having degrees and making academic contributions on every subject you might ever want to discuss. What the hell are you meant to talk about in a relationship, if bringing up any topic in which you're less than degree-educated merits your partner shouting you down for having intellectual pretensions above your station?

Do you have a degree in relationship counselling? If not then by your reasoning you'd better stop thinking your advice is worth the time it takes to read, right?

I don't think you'd be unreasonable to leave him because it doesn't sound as if you respect him. In fact you sound rather as if you despise him, and I cannot imagine how you'd get back from that feeling.

However, I don't think it's fair to call him ignorant just because he doesn't know the same things as you do. Or lacking in intellectual curiosity because he doesn't want to talk about the benefits of vegetarianism (or similar).

You're incompatible intellectually, and that's about it.

I think he seems a bit close-minded, and that would bother me, irrespective of educational achievement.

I am a sapiosexual (I just learned that term the other day), meaning one who finds intelligence a huge turn-on. I gotta have it, and luckily my husband is very bright.

What I will say, though, is that I am ignorant in the areas in which my husband has broad knowledge, and vise versa, so we forgive each other's areas of dumb-as-a-brick-ness, and respect each other's areas of strength. Are you sure he has no areas of brilliance?

I am extremely intelligent (and modest) and find your examples of his supposed lack of intelligence and your desired conversations wanky.

Leave him for whatever reason you like, but don't try to justify it by being so rude about him. If you were a man saying this about the mother of his children you'd get flamed.

What will you do if your DC are like him? Criticise them too?

Hi everyone and thanks so much for all your useful comments. I want to stress that the examples I gave were just examples of recent instances in order to create a picture of what life is like. I don't go around constantly making references to literary characters or purposely trying to use big words. And while I do value education - or else I wouldn't have spent a long time in it - there is a difference between doing your time in education and being sharp and clever.
To those people who wondered how we ended up together and stayed together so long - my pride I suppose. Head onto the divorce pages and you'll see similar.

To the dad complaining - the alternative is to stay with man out of pity, possibly a more emasculating option tan leaving.

To the other posters -- he's not funny or sexy either. It's really not good, is it?

Sapiosexual- yes that's me too!

This is interesting. I used to be engaged to someone a bit like this. He was much older, we met when he was in his final year at uni and I was in the upper sixth. He was doing a very technical degree and, although he didn't read fiction or know much about history, I took this to just be differences in our interests (I did sciences / maths so I'm not a humanities specialist).

By the end of our relationship, it was exhausting. He found my wanting to read fiction in bed baffling and would stare at me and say things like "Good...book? What's it about?"

I think part of it was that, growing up, he never had a desk or table to work at, he would do all his homework sat on his bed. I was studying for exams and asked if there was anywhere I could work for an hour and his parents cleared a spot on the dining room table but clearly thought I was being quite weird. I get that most people don't have massive bedrooms and libraries etc in their houses but his dad was a teacher and I would have thought giving his kids somewhere to work would be a priority.

He would also pick fights about politics etc which was exhausting. But perhaps that was him being abusive rather than stupid. I had the general feeling that he always wanted to clip my wings, it was a relief when we split up.

Haven't read the entire thread...

But this chimes with me as my STBXH and I are similar to this. Don't want to appear pompous or arrogant and I know there are different ways of measuring "brightness", but he also has a similar lack of curiosity about the world and it started to grate on me.

I'm slightly upset by/shocked at the posters who are saying "what did you expect?" though.

For my part, I have always known my H and I were mismatched in that department.

When I met him I had had a long history of relationships with tortured intellectuals who for various reasons couldn't commit/bring themselves to be nice to me. I had very low self-esteem. Still do.

My H came along and he was, above all, nice. And straightforward, and loving and supportive. He's not now, but that's a whole other story.

Sometimes that is what you need -- or think you need. And the lure of someone who accepts you and loves you and is kind to you over-rules the concern about intellectual compatibility. I took a calculated decision at the time that it was worth sacrificing this for someone who was caring and supportive. He turned out not to be. But had he remained the caring and supportive person I thought he was, I would have stuck with him, regardless of his lack of interest in books.

For those of you who are lucky enough to have met your intellectual soul-mate, lucky you. Bully for you.

Bear in mind that for some of us its just not that easy.

This thread has reminded me of the time when we stayed with an old school friend of DH and his new wife. He's a bright man and fancies himself as an intellectual. She is perfectly capable but not terribly academic.

Over dinner he announced, in front of us all, that he wished he could have an 'intellectual affair' in order to give him some conversation on his level. DH and I were both horrified but his DW didn't seem to see the humiliation.

They're still married and by all accounts are very happy. However, I suspect that he rather enjoys having somebody to patronise, while she genuinely doesn't seem at all bothered by the situation.

Op, if you do spilt up please let him see the children regularly. others posters have pointed out you seem to hold your partner in contempt, do not punish your DP by treating him unfairly.

Yeah its a taboo subject. I hope this doesn't come across as a brag just trying to explain my prospective but i've been noticeably (well to myself atleast) more intelligent than most people around me like talking nuclear physics in primary creeping the teachers out kinda level. However I went to bad schools and grew up in a pretty poor area so while I did meet some pretty amazing working class intellectuals the majority seemed to abhor knowledge so i've always kept it fairly well hidden. So OP I know how frustrating it can feel to have your brain caged up.

But what I realised as I got older was people didn't knock me down because they hated learning they knocked me down because they was insecure. Your oh probably is feeling just as frustrated as you, likely that he isnt good enough etc.

Also remember that cultured and intelligent are not exclusive
I used to work at a metal fabrication company and the men there could tell you literally anything you needed to know about carbon steel, stainless steel, aluminium, titanium to a very high level but they'd still rather spend their friday in the boozer comparing tits than campainging or visiting an art gallery. Not every intelligent person holds liberal views or is burguoise middle class.

glidingpig For that matter, it's bloody absurd to set the standard of "informed" as having degrees and making academic contributions on every subject you might ever want to discuss.*

That's inaccurate. I didn't set such a standard. What I am saying is that calling someone "not very bright" on such scant evidence is all too easy, but not necessarily accurate. Its too easy to throw around insults, I notice this a lot on mumsnet - calling people thick, a bit dim or not very bright, simply because they don't fall into a very precise notion of how a person should behave. Which, unless you are personally a brilliant person whose employment record reflects that, is incredibly arrogant.

People can be very bright indeed, but not interested in domestic stuff. Some people can be very good at maths and sciences, but hopeless at arts and literature.

It may well be that the OP's DH is thick as pig shit, but what she has described is incompatibility.

FWIW I do think theres something to be said for those who stimulate others to expand their knowledge, or to increase their ambition, and those who stifle it and shut them down.

My remarks are totally general and not aimed at the OP specifically - I have no idea what her personal situation is. I'm just not comfortable with this lazy dismissal of people as not being very bright because they don't conform to some strict norm.

My remarks are totally general and not aimed at the OP specifically - I have no idea what her personal situation is

How extraordinary, then, that you chose to expound your general views on her thread, about her personal situation.

I take it empathy features fairly low among your extensive competencies.

Will, the instances you've described boil down to him ridiculing your words, your ideas, your interests and even your attempts to discuss family decisions. I'm not entirely sure his intellect is the main problem here - although it clearly is a problem.

I agree that the problem isnt necessarily intellectual incompatibility but that he puts you down. Why would he do that?

However, at the first reading if your op the word prig came to mind. But then I realised that describing the minutiae of daily relating can sound picky and trivial. But I do think non-meat days don't necessarily have to be called vegetarianism - the phrasing does seem to be intentionally isolating?

It sounds to me that you are describing incompatibility, intellectual or otherwise. Or you're in the sick of each other years...

I have a lifelong schooling in dumbing down due to growing up with someone who is intellectually challenged (and bullied me to death for our 'incompatibility') so it's a very painful area for me and I sympathise if this is indeed the crux of the difficulties between you. Though it must be more than just this, you've been together too long for it not to have surfaced before now?

The 'prig' thing could well have been my stuff btw

(a) I tried to talk to him about politics but the conversation blew up because he's so uninformed and got angry when I used the word 'libertarian' (really);

Maybe he's not interested in politics?...did you think of that?

(b) I tried to have a conversation with him about household finances (which I lead) but he hates numbers and got cross;

He might have missed a lot schooling due bad health, teachers not liking him/him not liking the teachers...have you asked him I wonder what maths qualification level your DH managed to get?

(c) I tried to have a conversation with him about some elements of childcare such as more natural ways of dealing with baby eczema or limiting paracetemol but he thinks whatever I read is nonsense because all parenting should be 'assumed'

Would your DH knowingly harm the DC...does he play with them?, make things for/with them?, talk to them, "take his turn when you're busy"?

and

(d) I tried to talk to him about about being a vegetarian and having veggie-only nights for the children but he scoffs at me because he's read nothing about the merits of vegetarianism.

Why? just let your DCs decide whether they want to eat meat or not, because you sound very militant about being a veggie.?

From his POV I suppose it's not really fair to stay with him if I think he's not bright!

HIS POV? HA!, NO! THAT'S YOUR POV & YES YOU ARE PROJECTING.

The more I read and think about your OP, this thread is more & more about you, you, you, you & what you alone want. Also <strong>I THINK</strong> that you're being fucking selfish. 

[open sarcasm mode]--No doubt you've already got someone (who is your intellectual equal) lined in the shadows to replace your DH[/close sarcasm mode]

Also, how many real life Girl Friends have you slagged him off too? And how many have said "LTB"?

P.S. Yes you are BEU. I feel sorry for your PSTBXH.

I'd probably say you were the dim one

Posted too soon. I'd say you are the dim one for getting as far as having children with someone before realising they aren't very bright. How in the hell did that happen?

How did it get this far!! How did you manage to breed with someone that you can't even hold a conversation with about similar interests (OK, i get a one night stand and one child, based on him being gorgeous and you drunk, but two children! In the words of Lady Bracknell....)

Given that you and he are in this pickle you;

a) need to either seem him for the charms that he does have (please God this man is Ross Poldark-a-like) and find other friends to share your anti-paracetamol rants with (see point c below)

b) be kind and split up as gently as you can. He has done nothing wrong, he is the same, it is you who were dumb. Share the childcare, do not criticise him, it will do the children good to see that there are different types of people in the world (and give them a blessed relief from you if they turn out to be a trifle simple themselves).

c) join the local branch of some well meaning action group, the Labour Party, save the bees, Veggies-R-Us and vent your intellectual steam with them.

My own husband is ridiculously bright but has never read a book in the past 10 years, can fix anything, sees potential in bits of old scrap and makes me stop doing maths and go outside and look at the sparkly stars (and in his youth would have given Mr Poldark and run for his money).

"People, can you honestly say that you are as bright as your dps? All of you?"

Yes, thanks. A lot brighter, actually.