Have you ever come across a Sociopath / Psychopath?

[Bursarymum]

I've been reading 'The Sociopath Next Door'. And it got me thinking. Psychopathic killers are rare but it seems those without any conscience are not so rare.

In the case of my ex. I am not sure. He did those things after he left. He is very much someone who lives by the guidelines of those he spends time with. When with me he lived pretty decently. When living with the female he lives with who as his employer refuses also to pay csa, he has similar ideas. The suitcase incident was when he lived with her too. He threatened my life when with her once.

I don't know what is going on with him, it will be interesting to see his behaviour if they ever split up.

I suspect she is a psychopath, she has been very evil to my children directly and indirectly. I didn't invite her into our live, never met her and she wrecked our lives.

stubborn:

"charis and ihave- I think your differing experiences of this "media tycoon" just illustrate a point about psychopaths: On superficial acquaintance, they are charming. And they are often clever enough to boost their image in the public eye with philanthropy. Many psychopaths occupy a comfortable position as "pillars of the community".

Of course, the example that springs to mind is Jimmy Savile. I have no idea whether he has been formally posthumously diagnosed, but that combination of dreadful, widespread abuse, combined with the charitable persona, the strange hold he seemed to exert on so many influential people, and the way he could apparently suddenly turn really really, chillingly nasty when threatened, would seem to suggest a psychopath"

EXACTLY!

I would go further - I would say that a person such as this has a huge natural charm / magnetism which allows them to get away with much more than most people, in terms of boundary pushing. They 'keep going' until someone eventually calls them on it. When that happens the 'change of face is instant and really vicious'. Sometimes this is enough to scare off the person who has called them out, which enables them to carry on, with an enhanced sense of their own surpreme abilities. Sometimes, if it is the law, or other criminals, they cant get away from it and do go to prison / face revenge. Usually though, they will 'sail through it' and emerge with no more real understanding of why their behaviour was wrong and that they need to alter it.

My experience of the media person was of being Secretary to his PA (one of, but a Senior one). What I saw, first hand, and saw her go through, was certainly chillingly nasty.

My experience of the 2nd person was much closer. I have not named him (a BoJo lookalike who has been in prison for a very large fraud) as he is still around, nor the first person, as although dead now, I believe his 'way of operating' continues, through one of his children at least.

2nd person also consciously modelled himself on first person to the extent that some of the earlier frauds involved stealing pensions just after Mr Media did similar. 2nd person chortled and claimed it was a 'cracking idea' as I recall.

A few examples of something a sociopath does.

Have a child with another woman, that child is born two days after your child with your wife (me) then keep it a secret until 30 years later. Then tell people you don't understand why your child (I) would be upset.

Trash the house when wife is having major surgery so she comes home to nothing.

Beat your wife but when you find out your friend beat his wife you call him all the names under the sun.

You gaslight.. make your wife think she is crazy. Knock all her confidence out she no longer believes she can make decisions because hey, she is probably crazy.

Get everyone who doesn't know you well to love you so no one else believes your family when they say you are a shit.

Dump your kids, make some more, dump them. Keep the ones who look after you. Try to get back kids when you think they are needed then dump again (not me, I never let him do that to me).

Become close to a grandchild, dump said grandchild when a 'better' one comes along (not my children, never allowed them to see him).

verbally abuse your kids. But convince your friends you are a loving father. Make some believe they are worthless.

Sell your kids stuff for money behind their backs.

I could go on and on and this is the 'lighter' stuff.

I am not bitter at all

And the stupid thing is, I still want him to love me, even though I have nothing to do with him. I still want my dad to love me.

U2 :(

SilverBirch

The behaving as if he had learned it from a book, is how it felt. Nothing felt real, you could almost see him suddenly remember to behave in a specific way, almost like a jerk automated reaction.

Exactly. You can see them stop. Think. Re-calibrate. Then continue.

This thread is fascinating! I think I've known 3 in my life.

My bosses' boss is one. He looks through you when speaking to him its almost like he has no soul. He lies constantly but never gets found out. Charming to the people who can get him something but vile to junior staff. He's had affairs and has left a trail of destruction in his professional life. I make sure I'm never on my own with him!

The second one was an ex he was utterly charming but had no conscious and was a con man. See he's still commiting crimes of dishonesty as I've googled his name and his various misdeamours keep landing him in jail! I was only 16 when I met him but a lucky escape !

The third one was a flatmate, again lied, was a bully and no soul

I couldn't put my finger on it when I met the three of them but it makes perfect sense now I'm not so naive to things like this! Lucky escape from ex and flatmate but boss seems to get away with it for just now!

My F is one. My two DSis and I find him baffling. We are NC, of course. He hasn't even met one of us.

I have come to the conclusion that my DB is also a psychopath. I worry when I can't get in touch with my mum that he's hurt her. I believe my DSis feels the same although we won't say it aloud to each other.

Yes I know someone exactly like that pop. A school friend of my son's. It was clear to most of the adults who knew him from aged around 10 that he was a master manipulator with no guilt and no empathy but it took the children who were under his spell a few more years to realise it. I don't know whether he was ever diagnosed or not, but I'd put money on it that he is a psychopath and will one day have a diagnosis. I am sure he also has some kind of anti social personality disorder and he certainly can't manage his anger or emotions in a normal way. He also literally thrives on causing chaos, mayhem and violence wherever he goes.

He's currently in prison for murdering someone, which is exactly what I always said he'd do from being about 11 or 12 year old. He won't get a chance to have children himself until he's well into his 30's and thank fuck for that.

My Dad has psychopathic traits. Hurting me as a child for fun when he could get away with it, killing small animals, no empathy, mentally abusing people for amusement ... He took me to an abattoir when I was 3 and a cow was draining in the yard. I don't remember thank god. Charming with it. I grew up thinking it was my mum, when he was behind all the abuse. Didn't realise until I was 41.

My stepfather. That was a fun time.

I'm attributing some of these traits to my H but in his case I call it 'abusive'. Is it a fine line between abuser, narcissist, and sociopath, or all completely different diagnoses? It's the lack of empathy I am trying to understand.

I've always thought that H's business partner had sociopathic traits as he is a ruthless manipulator if it benefits them financially, he prices very highly for their work and turns away any work which won't earn them huge amounts. We have benefitted financially from his ruthlessness. H admires worships this guy and I found it interesting when I first met him, that he could be so un- PC (plus I was very charmed by him, very good looking and I was flattered that he 'flirted' with me). But looking back, my H has turned into a conscienceless prick since then, I'm not saying that this guy made him into an abusive d*ckhead but he found 'excuses' for this sort of behaviour and that made it so much worse. H won't let me say a word against this guy because he has been so good for us, money wise, but something doesn't feel right. TBH in my case it isn't the sociopath who is the problem but the emotional abuser (my H) who justifies his world view (ie women are only for sex and cleaning, if people are poor it's their own fault, it's perfectly ok to cheat on an insurance claim because insurance companies are all crooked money-grabbers, etc).

I might just read that book!

thatsnotmyname the one I know would rip off friends and family without a thought. My brother overcharged my partner once when my partner was setting up a new business. We had three small children at the time. When I split from my partner later on he revealed what he had done by saying my then ex- 'had no business sense and didn't bother to negotiate'. My ex- had just assumed that he could trust his own BiL not to rip him off.

There is a lot of odd behaviour in my immediate family and what really interests me is the difference between the ones who truly don't/can't empathise and those who are basically displaying adaptive/defensive behaviour. Being around dysfunctional people can be extremely damaging.

I have recently changed my mind completely about this in my family.

Yes, my friends daughter . She is charming, intelligent and very pretty . Shes an expert liar and has no care for the effect any of her behaviour has on others

As a teenager , she lied to her family and friends about having a serious illness- she kept it up for about 10 years until she was finally caught out .

She told her university tutor that her brother has died, so she could re sit a course she had failed . she conned her parents about of £10 k in fees and living expenses.

She told the university about her " medical problems " so that she got extra time in exams . She has two GPs and two sets of records . One has the illness ( that's gets her special treatment as its a disability ) and one doesn't ( used for medical reports for work , mortgage etc ) .

When her brother did Actually die, the next year,( he had been ill for a long time ) she didn't come to see him at the hospital because she was singing in a university concert and then going on holiday ( but still in the UK )

She got a third class degree at university but tells everyone she got a first .

She cheated on her fiancée during their engagement and just aftre the wedding. With one of his best freinds . When her husband found out a few weeks after then wedding , he left her and then killed himself .

She can't understand why anyone thinks she did anything wrong . She says it was his fault because he wasn't meeting her emotional needs .

She phoned his parents to tell them about the death of their son, and told them " its ok to cry " and " you need to know it's not my fault "

Within days of his death ( before the funeral ) , she was telling her family that she thought the Other Man was " the one " and asked if they coudl meet him .

She was hateful to her husbands family over the funeral arragements and refused to give them any of his personal possessions . She is taking them to court over his will ( he left everyone to his family , not her ) .

She has threatened her husbands family that she will tell everyone that his father and uncle sexually abused him ( not true , as far as anyone knows )

She was worried that her version of event woudl be spoiled by information that came out at the inquest , so she prepared a Press Statement and gave it out to the journalists in attendance .

Her very reasonable employers gave her months of paid leave , but she bad mouths them to everyone .

When she returned to work, she sent all her colleagues and email telling them what they could and couldnt say to her

She argued with HR that she needed her own room ( it's an open plan office , only very senior managers get their own office )

She LOVES being a widow and has become a big part of a widows support organisation . She flew To Canada to speak at a conference with them. She has re written history to be all about her years of being a carer for her mentally ill husband ( he wasn't ) .

She tells crazy lies about thinsg that the listeners know to be untrue ( because they were there , for example ) but no one ever confronts her. Her parenst have no idea how to cope with her, but she's all that they have since their son died .

I've no idea why she is still in her job - she must be very good at it . She's in sales for a big law firm

I've posted about sociopaths I know further up in the thread.

From reading this thread something else has clicked into place.

I might well get flamed here, but how young do we think people can exhibit sociopathic tendencies? The reason I ask is that recently I've had to distance my DS from another little boy of his age (four years old) for his own wellbeing, and I do wonder if he is showing early signs of sociopathy.

I sometimes worry that I might have some traits. I don't like emotion at all. Have reserved the book at local library to read!

The fact you are worried makes it highly unlikely red

My DF used to work in a place that Jimmy Saville visited. He said he had dead eyes and no soul and there was "nothing there". DF is a very warm empathic man and couldn't fathom out what was going on. He said JS was acting like a person who cared but it was false. He only said this after it all came out though. People like this are very good at faking it.

I have known one. She was a master manipulator, used people, would drawm them into her circle, then play with them. I figured out what was going on and tried to manage my withdrawal from her circle. She would fall out with people all the time, and if other people stayed friends with them would send them abusive e-mails, texts and phone calls accusing them of betraying her. We used to sneak around behind her back in order to meet people she had fallen out with for lunch. Finally she attacked me physically when she found out that I had been invited to dinner by one of her ex-friends. She screamed in my face and smacked me across the cheeks.

Recently this friend she had fallen out with died in an accident. Her DH asked me to call the sociopathic friend as he could not bear to, but she needed to know. I told her that this person had died, and her first words were ;'Oh, you and I can be friends again then now that she has died'. True.

I refuse to answer her calls, or her e-mails. I have just blocked her.

bumgrapes from what I've read the potential for people to become diagnosable people with psychopathy/sociopathy is often inborn.

from what I've read:

1. a few people are born with the empathic/conscience element missing and never can acquire it. Best they can do is fake it.

2. a much greater proportion of people are both without the empathic/conscience element and develop an understanding of social expectations and sometimes a conscience by adulthood; the empathy remains missing but they can become good and often constructive people in society even though there is something still missing, for people who know them closely.

3. the thing that for most people makes the difference is a stable loving family background. The parents have to pour inhuman amounts of love, (healthy) discipline and nurturing into the child but in the end it sticks .. for most people. theres a small minority that nothing can get through to.

There's a lot more people with these particular personality disorders in society than we like to think. But most of them more or less fit in. Some of them cause intense damage. Some of them do the best they can not to.

grapes I think very young, much younger than we would like to think. Though that's a personal opinion. However, the book in the OP is quite illuminating, and indicates that tendencies will be seen long before adulthood...

Grapes, I worked in childcare and had a child under my care who I am under no doubt is a Psychopath. He is destructive, manipulative (I feel dreadful writing that about a child) and a danger to other children and adults. He has the coldest, deadest eyes, almost like a shark, that I have ever seen.

He was expelled from one Montessori due to attacking children repeatedly and then assaulting a teacher.

He had to been seen in action to be believed. I had him from the age of 3.5 to 4.5 years old and I had to ask him to leave because his parents wouldn't help enforcing consequences to his actions. I have never met a child like him before and I've worked in childcare for 17 years.

I have been teaching for 13 years and have come across two children like you describe, Solitude. The cold dead eyes, yes - very manipulative and destructive behaviour, and being close to them is utterly chilling.

I have also met other children who I knew would go on to be in prison, about which I was right, but these two stand out (and one of them is currently a young teenager. I wonder and worry about what will become of them later in life).

There's time where I would have disputed that a child could be considered a psychopath. But from what I have found out about psychopaths, their deficit is physiological - they are simply not wired to feel empathy. It's like a type of brain damage. The problem is that most of us don't expect people we meet to be wired to manipulate and destroy us. It's horrific.

The person I was involved with, I'm sure is a P. He has the cold, dead eyes too and his facial expressions don't really look genuine. I've realised that a lot of what went on between us was him projecting me back onto me. He actually gave me a STI and had no response about it. I doubt he even bothered to get treated so he didn't give it to others.

Can I ask about the 'cold, dead eyes'? Did they always look that way? I've seen this in some of the -erm, unusually ruthless people I've known, but never as a permanent feature. Most of the time they were as expressive as anyone else. The dead-eyed look appeared when they were very angry or had written someone off.

I think we can all do a freezing cold stare, but there's something extra (or less) about the gaze of a displeased sociopath.

My dad once came and sat on my bed to explain about fatal pressure points. He added that he could kill me right there, silently and leaving no mark. His eyes looked pretty weird then - distant and focused at once.
The last time I saw his eyes, they really were dead. Can't say I'm sorry.

I don't get how one eye can look colder or deader than another. An eye is just an eye.