Have you ever come across a Sociopath / Psychopath?

[Bursarymum]

I've been reading 'The Sociopath Next Door'. And it got me thinking. Psychopathic killers are rare but it seems those without any conscience are not so rare.

[Gilrack]

he can't understand why other people don't try harder to get along with him I probably shouldn't laugh, but ...!

they do not see the bigger picture, cannot let go of their own hobby horses even if its alienating everyone else

This is ruthless, though, isn't it? Perhaps not the planned, Art Of War type of ruthless, but the pursuit of one's own agenda at others' expense is pretty much a definition of the word.

[Imbroglio]

Yes you are right.

I've just had another minor brush and its exasperating.

He'll declare that certain things MUST happen, and in the way he wants, even though previous experience indicates this will be catastrophically unsuccessful, yet when asked to do the smallest thing to meet our shared responsibilities or make the smallest adaptations to establish some workable method of communication, he ignores it.

It's his way, or nothing at all.

I feel constantly held to ransom.

Other, vulnerable people are involved so its not something I can walk away from.

[shovetheholly]

I had a friend who I think was some kind of sociopath.

He would say anything just to curry favour. We were both PhD students involved in political campaigning together. Gradually, as time passed I became aware that he was saying one set of things and acting a completely different way. So I decided he was simply a hypocrite (and aren't we all, at times?) Then more time passed, and I woke up to the realisation that there was no "real" him. He had no principles, no self, no fixed position. He simply thought that whatever was powerful should win, that might was right, that any technique, any argument, any way of acting was OK as long as it led to him achieving supremacy and impressing everyone.

He claimed to be a Marxist, and ended up working as a journalist helping hedge fund investors to get richer. Rather than acknowledge the contradiction, though, he came up with an elaborate theory of how helping the rich was actually undermining capitalism. And I think at some level he believed it.

[Imbroglio]

So do you think he said what would make him popular? Or what would give him more influence? Deeply needy or Machiavellian?

[Gilrack]

Then more time passed, and I woke up to the realisation that there was no "real" him. He had no principles, no self, no fixed position.

This is a fantastic description. It explains why it's so hard to get other people to understand your problem, and why even those close to you can side against you. They think, quite reasonably, they know the real him. It's only with long & close exposure that you begin to grasp the shifting nature of his character: the evolved mammalian behaviours are shallow masks for the 'lizard' brain, which directs all his actions unfiltered.

Interestingly, I've known several people who think everyone's like this. I don't know whether all psychopaths think the same, or if those were doomed to be fairly ineffective due to their misapprehension of NT people's motives.

Imbroglio, people kept telling XH2 he's Machiavellian and I had to spend months finding acceptable ways to elucidate without pissing him off. They were wrong - he isn't bright enough to be a Machiavelli - but I got small comfort from the fact that some other folks had a glimpse of what he is.

[Meerka]

i think a lot of people struggle to realise that other people can genuinely think differently from them at a very deep level. particularly immature or mentally not-quite-healthy people.

It's quite revealing sometimes to observe the motives people impute to others. It says more about them than the other people often!

I wonder if that's even more difficult for people with ASPD to realise?

[Lioninthesun]

I think it depends how much influence the actions of the person has on the public. IME a lot of people are affected by the behaviour of 'paths', not just people they know or live with. The boys my ex encouraged to beat him up for example, before he was bought home in a police car when dd was 2 weeks old. They were all put through the system, although ex didn't press charges he laughed about seeing hb one of them through a window and drawing his finger across his neck (as in signalling he was going to get it).

[Imbroglio]

So what was that about, Lion? He encouraged them in order to cut them down?

[Lioninthesun]

He came back from work (in soho) drunk as usual and when a group of teens taunted him he turned around and approached them shouting and pushed one, starting a fight. He was apparently just proud he had protected the kit he was carrying worth a few thousand. It was a big weird power trip as he walked off free in his 3 piece suit and they got their names on record.

[Lioninthesun]

Of course he then boasted to anyone who would listen that he was 'set upon' by eight guys and got kicked in the head but was so awesome they only gave him a few bruises and a black eye It didn't impress anyone and he got zero sympathy when he explained he had antagonised them. He genuinely thought it was funny and cool.

[yolofish]

It's his way, or nothing at all.
what imbroglio said... my sociopath, although very trivial in the light of what others have experienced is like this. I've realised that she attracts people who declare undying love - until she turns. For 16 years I believed the crap she told me about the callous ex-husband, the violent exs etc. I know begin to think the 'callous' ex may have had a point (although he never saved their children from here until the last 18 months or so).

[Gilrack]

he never saved their children from her - Difficult to do in the current cultural climate, never mind several years ago.

Most of the people I know who've won (as far as you can call it winning) contact & residency battles through the court system have had to fight for years - decades, even. As they're the ones treating DC as human children with emotional welfare, they are also the ones fighting on two fronts where the ex only fights to win. Judges see sense in the end, usually, but only after years of repetitive confrontation.

Where the mother is the damaged & damaging parent, the weight of cultural & traditional expectation doubles the already weighty burden on the other parent. Courts will - fairly reasonably, on balance - tend to assume more goodwill to the child on the mother's part. Unless she's completely & utterly off the rails, the abused father's going to have an even harder and more painful fight than his female counterpart.

All this, of course, leaves no child untouched. If you're now dealing with the aftermath, I wish you the best of luck and all the support you can get. Even more so for the children.

[yolofish]

you're right gilrack I hadnt thought about that. he had the younger 2 every sunday for years, never the older one (doubt about paternity, another thing she has never told the truth about). I'm not in touch with her or the children at all now, feel about 12 stone lighter! With hindsight, she has been distancing the children from me and my children for years...

[Lioninthesun]

Can I just check - ex's email said that he could apply for parental rights through the court using DNA (it was a threat to get me to stop claiming CSA) - I have so far shrugged it off as a threat as I don't imagine any Judge would let him have it considering he hasn't seen her in over 3 years, but is there any chance? Would his emails showing why he was doing it be any protection against him doing this?

[yolofish]

I had a terrible 'daydream' today. this morning I filled up 2 petrol cans for the mower and left them at the side of the open garage. then went to pick girls up from school, sainsbos etc. had terrible anxiety from the minute I got onto the main road that when I got home my socipath would have visited and carried out arson attack with dog and cats in the house. is this a normal feeling?? anyway all was fine and petrol cans now locked away...

[Lioninthesun]

I think that's it. You can never quite feel relaxed once you have known one. Like staring into the abyss and wondering if they are truly out of your lives or if they will suddenly decide to crash back in with no warning...

[yolofish]

yes lion you've put that feeling into words.

[yolofish]

"mine" wants to be friends again, olive branches are waving. I dont bloody think so! I reckon she's cottoned on to what she's lost and wants it back.

[yolofish]

resurrecting this one. I don't use my phone that much, but looked at it today and found a long, rambling message from 'mine', sent earlier in the week. It was a weird combination of extreme abusiveness, self-pity and threats. After consideration I texted back that I wouldn't bother dealing with her accusations because it's not worth it, but that I would stick to our verbal agreement (I owe her money and am paying her back as agreed). Her response was "lol, make sure you do". Really not sure what to say to that? except NOTHING and just keep paying til it's over...

[ImperialBlether]

It's odd seeing this thread here tonight. I was babysitting and got such bad vibes off the bloke (his wife was there too) that I nearly left without being paid.

[BeyondYourPeripheralVision]

21/37 on the facial expression test and tbh I'm amazed it was that high. They all looked the same to me and I made very few decisive choices. More like a 3 year old doing a multiple choice chemistry exam.

I have a diagnosis on cluster b and sociopathic tendencies. It is what it is.

Interesting thread.

[Imbroglio]

Yolofish it sounds like you did the right thing - stick to the facts and don't engage any more than you have to.

'Mine' does the olive branch thing as well. It's always demanding a meeting, though. Could be anything from offering to share a car journey to wanting to come to my house to bring a gift for the children, to having counselling together.

As soon as he knows I can't get away (sometimes literally) he'll lay into me with everything he's got. Then he wonders why I won't meet up with him again!

His reaction is too 'hot' to make me think he's a sociopath, though.

[yolofish]

well I'm back on this again. maybe I am just unlucky, but in the space of less than a year I have been hauled in by 2 of them. the 1st is kind of irrelevant now in that I have learnt not to care and to completely avoid; the 2nd is a psycho by proxy. I posted in AIBU about 2nd one who is (still) withholding some charity funds raised for a friend's child who has cancer - got the overwhelming response that no, I was not being AIBU (!) and some really helpful advice. She has posted some shite on FB today about love, and how she is on this earth to channel love to the rest of us, but how we receive this msg and what we do with it is not down to her... when I know what she has done, the things she has said, the real actual physical and emotional hurt she has caused I just feel fucking murderous.

[Imbroglio]

Funny to see this here again. I've had a bad time as well.

Tried counselling, which of course is not recommended, out of desperation. This is someone I need to get on with on a functional level.

It didn't work because he spent his time trying to show what a rubbish person I am, while I tried to get him to see that I have tried everything I can to establish an agenda around looking after our shared responsibilities.

So he would say: Imbroglio doesn't tell me anything!
Me: well, for example, I emailed you about X five times and you didn't reply, so in the end I had to deal with it on my own.
Him: You haven't given me any information about Y, which you HAVE to.
Me: I put a whole pack of papers about Y through your door two weeks ago, which you haven't acknowledged.
Him: You won't discuss Z!
Me: We had independent advice about Z, which I arranged, and the advice was not to go for that option. I said if you weren't happy you could seek a second opinion, but you haven't.
Him:You don't involve me!
Me: [Leaves room in tears].

He was furious when I stopped the sessions.

[summerainbow]

I only got a boy half way though this thread as just too scared by it all .
It rang far too many bells about my ex his mother my dc and freind of mine.

Been watching the tv show about it too.

And done some of online tests .