Yes, I'm another one: Husband doesn't love me anymore . . .

[dontknowwhatcomesnext]

I'll keep this short-ish, but really just looking for some support, as I feel all alone. More than a year ago (!) my husband of 13 years told me that he was thinking about leaving, hadn't been happy for a while, all the usual. It was an absolute shocker for me. I knew he was unhappy with his work (he works a high stress, very demanding job and had just taken on a new role), and of course things aren't perfect after 13 years of marriage, but I was absolutely shocked by it. We have two DCs, 12 and 10.

He has been in counselling (at my instigation) for a few months now, and although things are OK and we still have a physical relationship, it was clear that he was not really "in" to me, to say the least. He's better in himself (sleeping better, less anxious, etc.) but our relationship is not better. I finally started to get angry-it has been over a year, after all-and pushed him to talk this weekend. To summarise, and although it was said nicely and with guilt, he doesn't particularly enjoy my company, looked horrified at the thought of going away with just me, etc. He says he likes me as a person, but doesn't know how to get back to what he felt before. He acknowledges that once upon a time, he really loved me a lot, but feels we don't have much in common (he's got a point there), etc. I work part-time and am in good nick, if I do say so myself, though I'm almost 48, so it's all relative.

On the upside, he has agreed to go to counselling, starting in May, but he's not thrilled about it. I kind of dread it too, but at least there's a chance it might help. I said that I don't want to do counselling just to hear that he is leaving, and he said he wouldn't go to counselling if that was the case, he would just leave.

He says there is no OW, but it would of course explain things. There's nothing too fishy and I don't have access to his computer, etc, never have. I don't really have any reason to doubt him, but I'm not 100% sure.

I am really angry sometimes, and if we didn't have children, of course my reaction to all this would have been a lot less passive. We have the opposite situation from many troubled marriages: our DC have no idea and would genuinely be shocked to the core. I'm not sure they'd ever trust anything ever again. We are a nearly perfect family from the outside (hahahaha).

I'm really not sure I could feel any more down, though oddly I'm not really crying much. I'm almost more low than crying, if that makes any sense.

Thanks for listening

Doesn't particularly enjoy your company, but enjoys it enough to have a physical relationship with you?

I'd be telling him to jog on after that statement. What a horrible thing to say and do.

Hugs to you x

avant nobody holds a gun to these men's heads, they don't get raped into fatherhood - so where's the honesty here? Nobody says bringing up kids is easy, and sometimes its fucking tedious - women aren't any more suited to tedium than men, it's just that we generally get landed with more of it.

And probably if they have a dream around having children, most women might justifiably dream of bringing up kids as a team. They might choose to divide up the roles on a traditional basis, maybe not, but they certainly might 'dream' of doing it in an atmosphere of honesty and mutual respect. Not too much to ask.

With a small amount of research from friends and family, any man contemplating having children can find out that it is stressful, it might lead to having less sex or different sex with their partner, and that it requires huge amounts of patience and stamina. If they don't feel they've got it than they can bail out at an early stage. But no, this lot like to bail out once they've got'em. Well, excuse me if I find their excuses pretty lame.

Surely if he's unhappy he can leave for this reason only.. What's good for the goose is surely good for the gander..

Mrs avantbard is one lucky woman

You can say that again...

avantbard welcome to Mumsnet - interesting supposition and first post

I think you should start your own thread, maybe help some people make the same link you have?

frankbough I don't think anyone is stopping him leaving except him?! It reads to me like the OP has been pretty patient sitting on her hands for a year while he tries to work out what he wants....

dontknow how do you feel about him and you now? Even if he stays could you forget what he's said to you?
If my DH said to me what yours has after a year of him prevaricating I'd be devastated and I could never unknow what he thought of me. I think that little voice in the back of my mind asking 'does he want to be here?' 'is he bored?' 'am I boring him?' would be the death knell for my self esteem.

How is your self esteem holding up? And what, actually, do you want?

Thanks GirlDownUnder for replying. I appreciate it. I wasn't sure if frankbough's comment was actually aimed at me. As you say, he has two feet, and I haven't kept him captive! Our income is such that it would support two (pared down) homes, so there's no direct financial reason either. I actually asked him this week why he has stayed if he was unhappy, and he said because he thought our DCs and I deserved better. I think he is mostly driven to stay by the guilt (he's not a monster), and I hope it is also because he is not yet totally decided.

Re what I think, boy, that's a tough one right now. I can't unhear what he's said over the year+. Part of the problem now is that I am so self-conscious of everything when I'm with him that it feels terribly unnatural (not good obviously). We took a long walk with the dog this weekend, and the whole time I'm editing myself and wondering if he's enjoying himself. I hear that little voice and those questions you mentioned all the time. My self-esteem is wrecked - having your husband say those things will do it; as I told him, I know I don't have the world's best self-esteem even at the best of times, but I'm pretty sure anyone in my position would have taken a pretty severe self-esteem hit!

The bottom line is that I don't want to live forever with someone who doesn't love me anymore - it's soul destroying. However, I'm also a realist, and I know that any long marriage has probably gone through some very, very rough patches where they both questioned whether they should stay together and how they felt about each other. I guess the trick is trying to figure out whether this could be a patch that we look back on later and say, yes that was completely awful, but here we are 20 years later and glad we stayed together.

Actually dontknow I think he he is being a shit monster - he's so unhappy he's said some devastating things to you, things you'll never unhear, and yet he's actually blaming you and your kids for his inability to leave. From here that just looks weak and selfish.

And your response to me makes me sad. You haven't really answered my questions, and I'm not surprised because for over a year now he's trained you to only look to him for who you are / how you should behave / what you should want.

I asked you how do you feel about him now and what do you want. You've said what you don't want and you've said that the situation feels crap....
Do you want to be looking back in 20 years and say yes this is still awful and wow that's 20 years that I'll never get back?

You know you can make a decision for you right? You could tell him enough. You could split and you'd be a happier, healthier person. And maybe when he's decided (in his own fecking time, not yours!) what he wants, and if matches what you want there's nothing stopping you trying again.

I'm sorry dontknow it's a shite situation, and you don't have to answer anything you don't want to, I'm just trying to plant seeds.

I have been there (long relationship, high powered DH who suddenly began expressing 'doubts', withdrew all affection for five months, walking on eggshells thereafter as, although we reconciled, he never really 're-committed' to me...) and I am sorry to say that the only thing that will bring him up short is when you tell him that you are seriously considering ending the relationship.

If I were you I would offer a trial separation. He wants to try a separate life? Go ahead and do it.

In your position I honestly would tell him to leave, because he's not making you happy. You are checking your own thoughts before you speak them and modifying your behaviour so as to keep him happy. What a life

Scrape what little self esteem you have left up off the floor and tell him to fuck off and do his pondering and navel gazing away from you. If and when he deigns to realise that you are good enough for him after all, you can then decide whether you'll let him work hard to win you back.

My heart goes out to you.

So he wants to take the easy route and end his family so he can feel better about himself essentially. His behavior signals no commitment to the marriage at all.

If he had any sincerity at all about what he is saying, why, when he started to feel that way did he not attempt to patch the marriage, before things got to the point they are at now? I never believe that someone just wakes up one day, looks at their spouse and realizes they don't love them anymore. There's a lead up during which time they were usually half-arsed to take the necessary action or make life changes necessary to improve things. Then they blame their spouses for everything and make it all their fault.

I feel sorry for you children, because as you say, they will suffer most. Its just too easy for people to leave their families and move on to someone else. And everyone thinks life is soooo much better on the other side but it usually isn't!

All you can do (Please don't waste your time trying to save this marriage, he can't be asked to put in the work) at this point is focus on yourself and especially the children. That may mean gritting your teeth till they hurt so they don't experience too much drama and make arrangements for regular contact, if only for them.

But I would tell him to leave ASAP. You deserve so much more than being a marital scapegoat and an emotional doormat.x

Thank you all for the additional thoughts, sympathetic and bracing! I am listening; I am taking it in. If we had no DCs, it would all be so much easier. I've also thought (in dark moments) that it would actually be easier if I knew there was an OW. Then he'd just be a lying bastard. As it is, it is the DCs who bring me up short when I get fed up and ready to push things more. Ultimately, I take NewTwenty's point that the only thing that might actually make a difference is to offer a trial separation. Believe me, I've thought that too sometimes, but then I think of the DC . . .

I think this is emotionally abusive , whether it's deliberate or not doesn't matter. The outcome is the same. You censor yourself , your self esteem has taken a hit , you shield him from the reality of having a family and all that entails. Yet he still gets to play happy family's when it suits , have sex with you and occasionally throws you a bone. He is not an equal partner and hasn't been for a long time.

I cannot see any negatives for him in the current situation. In fact he is in a very privileged position. A real life divorce would look very different and there would be no shielding from the reality of it. Are you sure you want to keep a husband who needs shielding from family life ?

I wonder if he is enjoying having this power over you. I think it was a mistake to have taken on all the shitwork to shield him. The minuite he became so selfish and weak he apparently could not cope with the reality of having a family is the moment you should have separated. Other parents don't get to chicken out of parenting. Why should he ?

Currently he's offering less and getting more. I would guess that if you told him to leave he would backtrack pretty quickly. He's got a better deal than any man I know .

Thanks for the response, BadBalding. I appreciate you taking the time to write. You're right that he doesn't have to deal with the consequences right now. The problem is that if I make him face the consequences (and I think he and I are both well aware that the sympathy from family and friends is going to flow largely to me), my DCs get the consequences. It is so hard to weigh what is right for me in the context of the relationship versus the needs/wants of my DCs. And, yes, you are also right that it was a huge mistake to shield him from the reality of being part of the family - he either would have had to get on board or get off the boat much sooner. Thanks again.

Most of the time there is someone in their head or someone in their bed. Sorry . Dont do the pick me dance. Tell him where to go . Read Chump Lady. She will give you strength. www.chumplady.com

I would really spend some time thinking realistically about the consequences for the dcs , i.e. , what do they gain and what do they lose. If he needs shielding he can't be too involved either physically or emotionally. It sounds like the only thing they will lose is the ILLUSION of happy family's. If they are not aware now , as they get older they will become aware that dad isn't involved and is emotionally absent.

Kids watch and learn. You will do them a huge disservice by modelling that it's ok to stay in a marriage where the other person doesn't pull their weight and is selfishly absent . I stayed in a miserable marriage for years thinking it was best for the dcs. I was the master of illusions and went to great lengths to construct the image of happy family's. I bitterly regret this now as I watch my own dd construct her own illusion and deceive herself.

Your dcs needs must come before their wants.
And what about you ? What do you gain and lose ? He's not involved , he never was. He ISNT in this marriage but expects you to be. Essentially all his needs get met while yours don't. The cost of living a lie is very high .

Thanks again, badbalding, for the comments. It's really helpful for me to hear things like this, as the trickiest part of all this (as is probably obvious from my responses) is how to weigh up what is best for my children and what is best for me and what is possible to salvage in the relationship given the commitment I made when we got married. Nothing is as simple as kick him to the curb (which I know you understand) but I also have never had any desire to be a martyr to my children and husband, as I know the mostly likely outcome of that is contempt anyway. This is an awful place to be, but I appreciate everyone's thoughts.

I've sent you a pm Op.

I'm really sorry you're in this position OP. If I can be completely honest, having read the thread, while I totally understand your concern for your girls, I don't get the feeling that this is a marriage that can be saved. Principally because I don't think your husband wants to save it. I think he wants to hold you and family life responsible for all his ills and he thinks he won't be happy until he's out of it.

If my husband told me he didn't enjoy my company and dreaded spending time alone with me, at that point I would throw in the towel. There would be nothing there to save, quite apart from the fact that it's a terrible thing to say to anyone. This is not trial separation territory - this is just over.

I think it would be much more productive for your girls to focus your energy on how to make this easiest for them, how to move your life forward, rather than flogging a dead horse.

I don't think it's likely that your husband will reconsider, but the only thing at this point that might do it is for you to turn the tables: say - that's it, I don't even care what you want to do, I've had enough, I'm not happy and I've lost so much respect for you over this that I want you to move out.

When confronted with the cold reality of a rented flat, with you and the girls in a nice warm home without him may make him reconsider the merits of family life, and if it doesn't it wasn't salvageable anyway.

Don't have much to add OP, just want to say I think you're being really strong in the face of what must be really terrible pain. Please do take care of yourself, put yourself first for a bit, take time to think about what you want and what's best for you.

I'm in a similar position although a few months further down the line. I've started divorce proceedings and H has moved out.

I put up with him obviously not loving me for 5 years although he didn't admit this and in fact told me he did love me (his behaviour mostly indicated the opposite). In the end he told me that he had only stayed with me over the last few years because he didn't want to leave the children. In fact he still didn't end the marriage and I had to end it - now he tells everyone that I threw him out! Even now he won't tell me what made him change his view of me ("if I need to tell you, then there's no point...".).

Like others on this thread he didn't really engage in the day to day life of the family even though I work full time too. and now he's moved out, he seems to be happy seeing the children one day a week.

I would also advise ending it now - it is too soul destroying staying with someone who doesn't love you. You can't change the way he feels. Oh and my children are fine! It's very empowering to take control of the situation - I have bad days, but they are getting fewer now.

Don't know - I'm sorry to hear of your situation , it's sounds horrible . You must be a very strong person to have put a brave face on it for a year !

Can I ask why you don't think there is OW? I would have been playing detective if I were you , because I would be very suspicious that the delay is because she is not ready to leave . Or that he wants you to end it so he can pretend it wasn't his fault

Does he care a lot about what other people think ?

Thank you all for the additional thoughts (of all varieties).

badbalding Thank you for the PM. I will have a look at that. I really appreciate all your comments.

Twinklestein, I do totally understand that probably the strategically best thing to do now would be a separation. That is very much on the table (though I'm not sure he knows that), but I'd like to see how the couples therapy goes.

HenriettaBarnet, I'm sorry you're in a similar position (and 5 years - I guess I can be grateful for small things!). I'm so glad for you that it's getting a little better day-to-day. That gives me hope that, worst case, I and the DCs will survive it and be OK. Kind of lose sight of that sometimes.

StaceyAndTracey, I wouldn't say I don't think there's an OW for sure, but there have been no major red flags (and, believe me, I've thought this was an obvious explanation from the beginning of this saga-I really am not a naïve person, quite the opposite). I've never had access to his phone/iPad, so it would be hard to get in, though frankly I'd love to. We have all joint accounts with all his money coming into them (and as noted I'm in charge of all finances), so it's not at all impossible he's been paying for things in cash or she would pay, but there's nothing that has popped up. I have been cheated on before (not by him), and I have to say he would be the world's best liar and cheat if it's true, but that is possible (he's a very smart man). I guess I'm about 75% sure there's no OW but definitely not 100%. I don't really know how else I could play detective. I've had one friend offer to follow him, but I don't even know where I'd start! Like I've said, there haven't been any unexplained late nights, but in our case that's impossible to really test, because he often works late in the business he's in (everyone does).

Yesterday, I made the appointment for couples therapy starting in 2 weeks. I think I need to see that out, for a while at least, as I don't think I can live with not trying when he is willing to do it--and he does seem genuinely willing at this point. If nothing else, I'm hoping that it forces him to be clear and speak to me! Maybe we conclude that it's time to move on, and maybe, just maybe, to find a way out of where we are. I'm hugely less optimistic than I was even a couple months ago, but I guess I need the relationship to be dead, dead, dead (hopefully not taking me under with it!), before I can turn away. I do still love him, and some possibly delusional part of me doesn't feel what he's saying as "the truth". That is not to ignore all the other bits about being disengaged from family, etc. I understand that even if by some miracle we pull through this that needs addressing in a fundamental way as part of all this. OK, now I've talked/typed myself back into being a lot less hopeful.