concerned where this may lead - a question about sex

[allybgood]

I've been a long time lurker here. I love the site but I've never thought about posting anything before. And I certainly never thought I'd ever post a question about sex but here goes!

My husband and I have been together for nearly five years. We've always had what I thought of as a good sex life.

About a year ago, the subject of penis size came up in a conversation quite randomly. I can't even remember what started the conversation. I think it was something we saw on a TV show. Anyway, my husband asked me if I thought size mattered. Again, I can't really remember exactly what I answered but I think it was something like not really. I've come to realise whatever it was I said, it wasn't very convincing.

Three or four nights later in bed, completely out of the blue, he asked me how he compared to my previous partners. I've had 5, he's had a couple, and we'd always been very honest and open about our previous relationships. But we'd never really ever talked about the sexual aspect. Again, I said something non-committal like oh, you're all pretty much the same but I could see instantly that this wasn't going to wash. He was really quite insistent in a jovial sort of way and said something like come on, be honest. In the end - and I blame this on being a little tipsy, as we'd been out to dinner that night and he'd driven - I told him that he was a little smaller. He wouldn't leave it there though and finally I did tell him he was smaller that some of them. By this time, this was all getting a little steamy. He was obviously really turned on and I was too to be honest. When he asked me then really, am I bigger than some of them, I just said no, you're not, your the smallest I've had.

Now I have thought about this a lot and I still don't know why I told him that. I've come to understand in a way why he found it such a turn-on but I still don't understand why I found saying that to him so horny. Anyway, that was the end of the discussion because he fell on me and we had several hours of madly energetic sex!

After that night, questions about size or references to size just became more and more a part of our sex life. It's now got to a point that if I want to turn him on anywhere, anytime, I can whisper something like I bet he has a bigger one that you to him and I know that we'll be out of the supermarket and on the way home within minutes! I very rarely refer to his penis without "little" or "tiny" in front of the word now and it always has the desired effect.

As I've said, I've come to understand a little about why it turns him on. I've read about small penis humiliation on the web and I can see that it's not that unusual. I still don't really understands why it turns me on so though. It's not just that it turns him on so much!

I have been quite careful though. I have embellished, or probably more honestly, censored a lot of what I have told him about my previous partners. He is actually by far the smallest man I have been with and at least three of my previous partners were much bigger than him. I've always just said he was the smallest without going into further detail, even when he has pressed me for more information. I can usually divert him by saying something else explicit about his size and off he goes!

My problem is - and I apologise for the rambling preamble but I think what I am about to say wouldn't make sense if you didn't know all this - that he has started asking me if size matters to me. I have always said no, it doesn't and, when he starts to ask why or press my to justify, I just say if it did, would I still be with you after 5 years? But he clearly isn't satisfied and I'm pretty sure a lot of that is that I'm just not as good an actress as I think I am. There have been another couple of tipsy occasions where I have come very close to saying yes it does, but I've managed to hold out.

He's not going to stop asking me and I am really afraid that if I tell him what I really think, it's going to change this sexy game into something quite different. I love him very much and I don't want to hurt him but I also feel bad lying to him - even if it is a white lie.

I'd be really interested to know if any of you have ever encountered anything like this yourself. And I'll happily listen to any advice on whether I should keep my big fat mouth shut!

Thanks for listening!

Telling him is unlikely to make it get bigger. 'ain't that the truth!

I was also thinking it's a reverse....

In these circumstances - telling him it's small probably will make it bigger harder anyway...

Jokes aside... DP and I were going through a bad patch and every row seemed to have a sex problem aspect i.e. not enough sex, not the right sex and so on...

Eventually, this came out, DP felt 'small', had checked and believed he was small, but found that being told he was small, by me turned him on, not off, and wanted me to enjoy this too.
DP had been told by exes that he was small but it hadn't really registered it. For clarity, he is genuinely small - not tiny but small. I hadn't noticed really as had only had one previous partner and to be blunt, it just hadn't registered with me either, probably inexperience, perhaps because I wasn't paying much attention, perhaps because the sex stuff was unremarkable, perhaps because he actually is small.
He needed me to acknowledge this, to tell him that he was small, and that it mattered.
Anyway, we talked and talked and talked... we love each other and want to be together for ever - we bought toys, we watched porn, we absorbed and made a conscious choice to 'get with each other' sexually/mentally.
Toys are great, dirty talk in bed is great, fantasy is great.
Does it lead to a 'cuckold' life? We have talked about this. I think DP is/was more willing to go this way than me. I love the fantasy but would find the reality hard to go with, I think.
I think now that not acknowledging DP's size in the past was a negative force in our relationship - we can say anything to each other now - although sometimes I do still hold back - there are times I feel as though I'm being unkind - I shouldn't hold back because I know he doesn't feel it that way.
This openness too, allows me to feel free in my own fantasy life, I don't have to worry about hurting him if I say I'd love a really big one or yours is so small etc etc... it has enabled me to indulge my fantasies and my real pleasure in wanting/having something bigger without any sense of guilt - it works for both of us

Crimsonh - no, I agree, this isn't about cuckolding

pompodd - thanks, I know you aren't having a go at me and you are being constructive. You are right that I have got myself into a bind by not being more forthright. I've decided, based on your comments and the advice of a lot of others who have contributed, to talk to him about what is driving this and where he hopes it will go.

In regards to your aside, we do have a really good sex life and I do love it. But, like most things in life, there are few absolutes. Are there things I would like to change? Yes. Can some of them be changed? No. On the whole, am I happy? Yes, very.

jd56 - you are right, and this is what I have to get to grips with when I talk to him about what he wants out of this.

Twinklestein and Cherryapple1 - and that's why I've done everything I can to keep my original message and all my responses as non-sensational and non-salacious as possible, why I've avoided as much as I can any overtly sexual language, and why I haven't talked in centimetres or inches or responded to any requests about his size or my own particular preferences.

Of course, that could all be part of my cunning double-bluff, couldn't it?

I'm certain I can't persuade you or anyone else who's suspicious so I'm not going to try.

Good luck, ally. Hope it works out for you.

unmee - thank you so much - I relate to so much that you have mentioned. Your comment about not acknowledging his size being a "negative force" really resonates with me. This is exactly what I want to avoid. And your comment about openness, well, that's exactly where I hope we can get!

As I mentioned above, I have decided to talk to him in more detail about what this all means to him and where he wants this to lead. I do want to get to a place where I can give him what he wants unstintingly and not worry, as you say, about feeling I will hurt him by being truthful.

Again, thank you, you've really helped!

Oh for gods sake, tell him what he obviously wants to hear and move on! He will eventually have to reveal his cards if he wants something from you but in the meantime, the guessing and speculation is tedious.

pompodd - thank you! much appreciated!

What was the outcome of your talk with your partner Ally?

I am a male who has also recently been trying to process my need for such sexual honesty and also... trying to understand why it actually turns me on. I've come to understand that it's my way of accepting who I am. It's part of how my mind and body respond to long held, intense emotional connections that I have experienced during my state of arousal.

People change. What was once an embarrassment may become a cathartic source of revelation and arousal. Baring one's inner fears and accepting the truth can be life changing - opening up entire new vista's of sexual discovery and experimentation. That's how I feel and I have discovered I am not alone.

Younger men have a lot of self denial, envy and fear in this area - so if your partner has grown and matured, recognize his bravery for directly confronting a long held taboo. Don't be afraid to tell him the truth. From what I have read, a lot of women misunderstand a man's desire for acknowledgement of fact and confuse it with SPS anxiety.

It sounds like your man has gone through the same transition I have.

After 5 years together, he is confident in your relationship and that he can bring you pleasure in other ways. But he wants affirmation of something he already knows ...as a way of confirming that there is complete sexual honesty between you as a couple.

If you've been with your partner for a while, if your man has the courage to ask about it, then he also has the courage to admit and accept the truth. Don't deny him that. It will have long term negative consequences and impact his sense of trust. By eroticizing his years of shame, he is redirecting a long-held negative energy into a positive sexual outlet.

It is important for him as a male that you accept and embrace this process... and his sexual needs. And yes... THIS IS KINKY!

I absolutely understand him for wanting to know your real thoughts. A sexually empowered woman is a turn on for many, many guys! We like to know what turns you on and why. So communicate with him freely and openly.

A site which is very genuine and not "extreme" and which has helped me a lot is:
<a class="break-all" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20141014162642/lovesmallpenis.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20141014162642/lovesmallpenis.wordpress.com/

Unfortunately it shut down, but the articles are written by an intelligent couple who have taken the journey and discovered Small Penis Teasing. (The extremity of porn is not something which is appealing so I suggest ignoring the SPH genre.)

But...

I am curious what women think about Small Penis Teasing?

I guess I'm trying to understand why women get turned on by it. Knowing that there are some women who do get turned on teasing about size... is a some kind of psycho-sexual trigger for me; it's a turn on which is intense and I can't control it at all.

It's a completely counter-intuitive fact and taken me a long time to understand - but I believe that is a consequence of accepting my size.

Also, since others have talked about cuckolding - what do women think about that dynamic, at least in terms of threesomes and open-relationships aiming at a woman's sexual pleasure? It's something I would normally be too shy to discuss... as I said, I'm still processing my desires. Would you think less of a man as a partner if he accepted / consented to another male lover as part of an open relationship arrangement?

I too think that this will head in the direction of cuckolding.Is that what the op wants?

Lucy, I don’t think AllybGood wants a cuckolding relationship, at least not without having another discussion with her partner. Admittedly there are some conflicting tensions going on and therefore the messaging is a bit confused. On the one hand she said:

“I'm sure he does know that size does matter to me and that he just wants to hear me confirm that.”

but on the other hand she makes it clear that his lack of size is not a detriment to the relationship, saying:

“Yes, it does matter to me. I do have a very satisfying sexual relationship with my husband”

As I understand it, this is part of small penis teasing:

“I don't feel powerless or as if I am being coerced”, “if I said I didn't want to play this particular sex game at all anymore - he would accept that”.

But she twice says – “this isn't about cuckolding” ... “this has nothing to do with cuckolding, I am quite sure - and I do know what "cuckolding" means in a fetishistic sense. It's amazing all the new stuff you pick up once you start looking into one kink on the web, as someone referred to it earlier. We both find the idea of a threesome, in any form, unappealing.”

From a guys perspective I am trying to understand the turn on for a woman with teasing with the truth of a small penis size. As a man, I'm learning to be less ashamed about my uncontrollable response to teasing and to accept it as part of the way my mind and body respond.

But I am really interested in why women get turned on by this:
“this is what I really don't get, as I said before, I know that deep down it would really turn me on to tell him!”

"He was obviously really turned on and I was too to be honest"... "I've come to understand in a way why he found it such a turn-on but I still don't understand why I found saying that to him so horny. Anyway, that was the end of the discussion because he fell on me and we had several hours of madly energetic sex!"

"it always has the desired effect.... As I've said, I've come to understand a little about why it turns him on. I've read about small penis humiliation on the web and I can see that it's not that unusual. I still don't really understands why it turns me on so though. It's not just that it turns him on so much!"

Can any women give their (genuine) views on this matter? I would appreciate sincere and honest female opinions. I'm not offended by straight-talking. Obviously it's taken quite some time to get my head around this type of teasing and game play (in terms of its counter-intuitive effect on me). I'm confident in general and have no other concerns regarding my strength of character or masculinity.

Do any women have experience of this, enough to offer a female perspective?

Apologies that I didn't provide any update.

Yes, I did speak to my husband and the conversation went very well. We discussed everything openly and I've found out a lot about what has been driving this for him. We've got a lot to explore together and we're both excited about some of the sexual doors that this is going to open for us. We both feel really reassured about our relationship after our discussion. I'd like to thank everyone who made thoughtful, constructive comments. It really did help focus me on what I needed to do.

Lucylloyd13 - no, it has nothing to do with cuckolding. I'm not interested in that and my husband has confirmed that he's certainly not interested in that.

Syd12345 - thanks for your comments. I'm still not really sure what turns me on about all this. Perhaps I'll find out. So I really don't think I can offer much insight into small penis teasing for you. All I can say is that I'd be less concerned about what other women - and men - find appealing about it and concentrate on what you and your partner get from it. Although everyone's constructive advice was really useful, the most important advice was for me to talk to my husband. That seems so obvious now. But I think sometimes, when we're confronted by unusual feelings or circumstances, it's sometimes difficult to take that communicative first step. Good luck on your journey.

Thanks Ally. Your husband has gone through the transition and accepted the truth, so I'm sure he was grateful that you were finally able to be honest to him. From what I have read on the blog I posted, you will have a lot of fun exploring together!

It is a very confusing topic, so I know what you mean when you said you don't understand why it excites you. This is the old blog with lots of great insights (mostly from men) to better understand the dynamic of SPT:
web.archive.org/web/20141014162642/lovesmallpenis.wordpress.com/

But the blog was written for both men and women. The couple who wrote on that old blog, restarted with a new website having only limited content so far. Here is some more about them and their journey:
smallpenisrelationships.wordpress.com/about-2/

My curiosity about women's views on this topic is not just to gain an insight regarding husband/wife relationships. Think of single men and women too and their sexual dynamics... all those unmarried under endowed males with lovers and girlfriends. It really would help to know the thoughts of women who have experiences with smaller guys and if SPT is something they would be into. Any insight as to why it's enjoyable from a female perspective would be appreciated.

I am sure a man wrote this and is masturbating over the replies.

Actually, I think Ally answered this already and I thought the response was quite reasonable.

"that's why I've done everything I can to keep my original message and all my responses as non-sensational and non-salacious as possible, why I've avoided as much as I can any overtly sexual language, and why I haven't talked in centimetres or inches or responded to any requests about his size or my own particular preferences. Of course, that could all be part of my cunning double-bluff, couldn't it?

I'm certain I can't persuade you or anyone else who's suspicious so I'm not going to try."

She was looking for constructive comments and I think it's an understandable position to be in. "Unmee" has a similar experience I believe. Hopefully some of the male commentary helped her gain confidence to talk to her partner in an honest manner.

I wrote here looking for female perspective. (And no, I'm not pretending to be anyone else... i.e. I'm not Ally lol)

I am sure a man wrote this and is masturbating over the replies.

Why? Surely a man could find much more interesting/detailed stuff online than a thread on MN?

Would cuckolding not be the ultimate in SPT ? To make the small guy witness up close the difference a huge one makes ?

Could be. I think it would depend on the boundaries set by the couple. But yes, I think so - at least for some guys. I'm not sure about the turn on aspect for the woman though.

My guess is that the guy would want to first know IF a larger one honestly makes a difference, and then knowing her individual preference, the truth becomes SPT. What is agreed to after acknowledging sexual limitations... well, those solutions probably vary by couple.

From what I have read, only about 25% of women are open to swinging/alternate relationships... although the fantasy level for threesomes is much higher for women and for men.

There is a stereotype that all men are jealous of previous lovers and larger sized men... so I can understand that some women would be worried about how their partners would react to knowing they aren't "the best lover in the world" lol. In reality, my guess is that most women would probably be too embarrassed to let a small guy "witness" her receiving sexual pleasure with a larger lover. But the truth is that most women and men these days have a good level of sexual experience and sexual knowledge. Men know that women aren't ignorant when it comes to the different sizes and what they want!

It's clearly a topic that would need a lot of discussion between the man and the woman BEFORE trying an experience like cuckolding.

As jd56 said, they're up for it as a couple. Ally isn't.

This has been a really interesting and thought provoking thread!

Thank you for everyone that has posted. May have something to add or start my own thread at some point.

oh go on then, I'll bite. (with some cynicism).

It's interesting that you connect large penis size with being 'best lover in the world'. That's not been my experience, really, and I've encountered both very small and very large. They are different, yeah, but both have their pros and cons, which I'm not going to detail here.

I've known 2 men with small ones. One had no embarrassment/shame about it, one did feel a bit inferior, and I felt a bit sorry for him for feeling bad about it. The first one just got on with having a good time, it was never discussed and never an issue for either of us.

I never felt any urge to tease them about it and I don't think I would have found it a turn on. We all have our kinks, but humiliation isn't one of my mine. I guess if he'd really wanted it I could have gone through the motions for his sake, as it's no skin off my nose to say a few things, but my heart wouldn't have been in it.

Incidentally the very large chap was very proud of it and seemed to think size was automatically making it great. Nope, to be honest he was a so-so lover.

I've also known a man who immediately apologised for being small before I'd even seen it, who turned out to be perfectly average. And it wasn't a game he was playing, he really thought that. I don't know what goes on in men's minds sometimes.

I'm so confused and I apologise. So does you telling your DP his cock is small turn him on?

Why? Surely a man could find much more interesting/detailed stuff online than a thread on MN?

Of course, so you gotta ask why they targeted MN. It's the online equivalent of upskirting - getting unsuspecting women to talk about a particular fetish unawares.

Except of course those women who've seen it all before.

I can relate to the above. Two partners who were fairly big, one thought that was thus: job done was ..very dull and thoughtless in bed. The second had been informed that it helps (getting everywhere ahem) but there's a whole lot more than a vagina to impress. He was great fun, mainly because he was very open, honest and wanted to learn. But I've still had more fun/ fulfilling sex with average/ smallish guys and been bored by some as well.
Honesty and talking about sex is always an improvement.

Yes, I think you're right - part of the problem that smaller guys experience is that the shame can hold back honest communication. There is a social stigma as well when males appear weak or less masculine in expression of their insecurities. But those male insecurities can accumulate and become a complex psychological interplay which connects sex, arousal and shame (for some men, not all).

And surely this unspoken interplay (for a small proportion of couples and males) affects their relationship. To copy Ally's words, I'm not intending to be salacious here either.

As a male I understand the male perspective, even though the triggers are confusing and have taken me time to process. Assuming (within reason) that Ally is a woman - she also doesn't understand why it excites her.

The psychological aspect is interesting. It's counter-intuitive and I do think it comes down to being a relationship game with truth and acceptance at the heart of it. I can understand a woman NOT being into it - unless for example - there's added benefits like non-monogamous cuckolding involved. Obviously that opens the door to a variety of physical pleasure.

Thanks for the explanation loveareadingthanks. It's probably not unusual - maybe 80% of men - make the "larger" comparison and are curious what their lover's think/desire in terms PIV. ("preference for larger", not necessarily "largest" eeeek lol). Obviously PIV is just one aspect of love making and it's important we guys can accept that. I do. It's just that we are mentally bound to our biological toys ;-)

I'm going off topic - I was just curious about Ally's comments and hence my questions above.