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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

It can happen to anyone? Abusive relationships

165 replies

LadyBlaBlah · 03/04/2015 08:56

I hear this a lot on here and elsewhere and I understand the reason why we say this.

However I think it needs clarification as it totally disempowers women.

"It can happen to anyone who is ill informed about abusive relationships."

For many varied reasons, I think there are many women who do not even realise what abuse looks like/believe it is part of relationships/don't understand their self-esteem has been destroyed and so are sitting ducks for abusive men.

I had a long abusive relationship and only after 14 years did I put the label abusive on it even though there had been physical violence! And now, the thought that could happen to me again ("it can happen to anyone") is just ludicrous, there is no way this could happen again. I would recognise the signs and walk away.

This is not meant to victim blame but I just don't like the inference that this can happen to anyone and so we women cannot protect ourselves - I am absolutely 100% that this will not happen to me again - someone may try some one-off abuse but I will not be in a long term abusive relationship ever again.

OP posts:

revealall · 03/04/2015 19:37

I think it is more complicated than victim blaming or spotting abusers arguements.

I have had all very healthy relationships up until meeting an ex in my late 30's. I never got violent but I became extremely aware that over a few years I was becoming emotionally abusive and had lost respect for him.His back story was an ex that hit him and an abusuve relationship with his parents. In the end I did leave because I could feel myself actually wanting to harm him. I really did feel it was his fault I was behaving like and I know that is one of the classic lines of the abuser. I also did say "sorry " a lot because I really didn't want to treat him like that. But in the end I had to stop the relationship after nearly six years. It was very toxic but he never would have and even now he still wants to "be friends ".

It does sound like victim blaming but I believe he looked for me knowing I could become this horrid person in reaction to him. As I said none of my previous relationships were based on either of us putting the other down. My idea of a relationship is one where you are better because you are with the other person.

ApplesTheHare · 03/04/2015 19:50

OP I think the phrase 'it can happen to everyone' is actually helpful.

Prior to sliding into one from what was previously a happy relationship, and knowing a lot about methods and patterns, etc., I'd thought they probably couldn't happen to 'someone like me'. Now if I'd thought 'it can happen to anyone' I'd have been more on guard, if you see what I meant? It took the knowledge that it can happen to everyone for me not to recognise what was happening but accept it.

Anniegetyourgun · 03/04/2015 19:51

I think the crucial thing there, revealall, is that you walked away because you didn't want to be that sort of person, rather than believing it gave you carte blanche to treat him badly. We all have it within ourselves to behave badly at times, but the thing is in how we handle those impulses. Most of us would rather be nice people; a minority embrace their inner demons as a Jolly Good Excuse. It is not our job to fix such people!

I had a boss once whose ex-wife had chased him around the kitchen with a knife, and whose former colleague had tried to strangle him in the pub. I have to say I wasn't entirely surprised.

Gralick · 03/04/2015 20:36

While I was going through my Abuser Spotting phase () I clocked a few proper doozies that might have worked on the 'old me'. One in particular is a charismatic, interesting sort of man who knows a lot about the arts. He likes to gather people around him. He does it well. One day he was talking with a group, bringing every conversation around to himself as he does, and he described some unpleasant violence that his father used to do to him as a child. I watched him fleetingly check all the women's reactions, and saw him notice my recognition (my dad did the same thing.) He said a few words to me; I shut him down. Another woman stepped in with sympathy.

Taking the half-hour altogether, I'm certain that I was right about his motives. But the exact same incident in another setting - a therapy group or even a different social mixture - would mean only what it looked like: a disclosure, inviting honest conversation. What I'm trying to illustrate is that, yes, we can train our instincts and it is wise to do so. We can't, however, live every second of our lives in a state of hyper-vigilance. It's exhausting and isolating. We have to take chances, because that's how life is.

springalong · 04/04/2015 02:40

I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread so apologise if this has already been noted. But I am quite shocked how abusive relationships are just not acknowledged by the courts and professionals dealing with children. This is absolutely the case if the abuse was not violent and reported to the police. It makes it very difficult for women who have left an abusive relationship to put in place proper boundaries. Contact particularly with the father seems to be paramount in all cases.

mumto3beautys · 04/04/2015 04:10

op I think what you said is quite damaging....
i for one ( and I'm sure I'm not the only one ) have been in more than one abusive relationship in fact I'm on one now, my mother was also v.abusive....should that make it easier or harder to read the signs?
very easy to say if you have had "normal" relationships in the past and have a whats acceptable/not acceptable benchmark.
people in serial abusive relationships arent daft coz they didnt spot the signs their judgement is skewed by being trained the signs are normal
I honestly think people should think carefully before writing such crazy stuff
I dont normally put my 2 pence worth in on here but this has massively struck a cord!
maybe people who have been raped repeatedly should have seen it coming after the 1st time and stopped it happening.....its the same, I mean seriously wtf!!!!

18yearstooold · 04/04/2015 06:28

My relationship with my abusive ex started exactly the same as the relationships I'd had before him -he was the only abusive one

Being kind, taking an interest, wanting to spend time with me -all perfectly normal and even after unpicking the 13 years of my life I still could not tell you when it turned from a normal relationship into an abusive relationship

In one way you are right though -it will never happen to me again because I'll never have another relationship again

I've tried but the first compliment they pay me i'm seeing red flags billowing and i'm taking myself out of that situation

ChipDip · 04/04/2015 06:57

Op I completely agree with what you're saying.

mrspavarotti · 04/04/2015 10:46

It's interesting to me to when people say that a good template from their own parents would have shown them what's normal.

I feel like it's almost because I had a normal parents and a happy childhood, that I completely failed to spot the red flags. I had never been bullied in my life, I was educated, travelled, independent when I met him. I knew how to look after myself.

I was never hit or pushed but the bullying, undermining, controlling was mystifying to me. I didn't know how to deal with it, didn't know what caused it, normalised it...minimised it..thought I could handle it. I was married with 3 children by then. I am still completely amazed at how naiive I was. Only MN and Lundy Bancroft educated me.

So yes, it CAN happen to anyone and I now reckon I can spot a potential abuser from a mile away.

I wish I'd known then what I know now.

Lweji · 04/04/2015 14:44

I agree that women (and men) should be educated about abuse, and on how to recognise it.

We can spot "signs", but where do we draw the line between recognising an abuser and being too afraid to be hurt? (speaking from someone who is there)

To spot proper red flags, we probably will have to suffer some form of abuse or at least witness it, so I'd say that, yes, anyone can suffer abuse.

I can only hope that I don't find myself in an abusive relationship again, and will do my best to walk away quickly if it leans that way.

Lavenderice · 04/04/2015 15:51

I'm going to cut you some slack here because two years ago I too would have said "It'll never happen to me", and then it did.

Gralick · 04/04/2015 16:09

It's magical thinking, Lavender, same as all victim-blaming. You persuade yourself you can immunise yourself by not being as dumb/confused/vulnerable/deluded as all the victims. It's no more rational than believing you can prevent an earthquake by hanging mirrors in your house, but it makes you feel better for as long as it lasts.

Sorry you found out the hard way. Are you safe now?

0ldF0x · 04/04/2015 17:23

mrspavarotti I agree, because my parents were respectful of each other, I literally had no comprehension of how badly a 'partner' would / could treat me. I ignored red flags because the notion of being abused in a relationship was so utterly unfathomable to me at the time.

Obviously it wouldn't happen now. I might not be able to spot an abusive man on the very first date, but I agree with the OP that their true character leaks out soon enough. The real super power is being able to walk away the moment it doesn't feel right and I feel I have passed that test as I did it once. I felt sorry for him because his parents' parenting of him had been so shit and it had left a mark on him, but nothing excuses treating me badly so he had to go.

0ldF0x · 04/04/2015 17:27

so true springalong

And worryingly to me because I've been through a break up with an abusive controlling man, fathers are getting more rights all the time. It is worrying.

Lweji · 04/04/2015 19:19

I feel like it's almost because I had a normal parents and a happy childhood, that I completely failed to spot the red flags.

Somewhat similar here.
I believed in giving people second chances and working at the relationship together.
Except he didn't.

mammadiggingdeep · 04/04/2015 19:58

Lewji- yes, yes....I kept expecting an arsehole to stop being abusuve and realise he wasn't being reasonable. I've heard a good saying since- don't expect everyone to have the same heart as you do. So true- and a hard lesson to learn of you've grown up in a loving home full of wonderful, warm, healthy relationships.

Gralick · 04/04/2015 20:04

On this thread and others, I seem to be reading more posts from people who've sworn off relationships following one too many bad experiences. I'm finding it both sad and reassuring - because I have, too. It's not that I refuse ever to be intimate with anyone again, but my zero tolerance attitude basically rules out everyone who ever betrays the slightest sign of being even slightly fucked up As I'm several light years away from 'perfect' myself, no human pairing is going to happen under current conditions!

So, yeah, I am totally immune from abusive relationships (apart from with government departments, which I can't avoid, and family contact which I have greatly reduced.) But it's not real immunity, it's just avoidance. I'm fine about that now - and for some years to come - but I'd be a fool not to acknowledge that I'm cutting off quite a big part of myself and my potential in order to feel safe.

I know this isn't directly the point of the thread. But it's kind of relevant, so I thought I'd chuck it in.

mammadiggingdeep · 04/04/2015 20:10

I cannot imagine ever being with another man, I'm petrified of ending up being mistreated again. So the chances of me falling for an abusive man is pretty slim.

Good point Gralick

ComfortingCwtch · 04/04/2015 20:16

I'm the same. I simply not have another relationship, nor will I let anybody be friends with me. That way I won't get hurt.

ComfortingCwtch · 04/04/2015 20:16

I meant simply will not not simply not

0ldF0x · 04/04/2015 21:06

Mammadiggingdeep, don't worry. NObody is going to make you go out with somebody. I think I left it four and a half years before I date one really nice man. He was lovely. I didn't love him, and I ended it. I feel like that was another 'test'; to feel entitled to end a relationship with a 'nice' mand when I hadn't been allowed to end a relationship with a horrible man. Ykwim?

ComfortingCwitch, It doesn't have to be that way. You can learn to tune your radar up to the max, and then have the confidence to trust your own judgement.

Hissy · 05/04/2015 02:04

mamma I felt the same, but then when I'd worked hard in therapy, and allowed myself to heal I was DAMNED if that relationship was the sum total of my life.

I found real love, connection and adoration. Sadly he was also a victim of dv and wasn't ready/able to have a relationship, so ended it.

But the genie is out of the bottle. I know what I want now. And I know it exists ??

Take your time to heal, you're worth it, you will be ok, you will be happy again. Don't worry about what is to come. You will be ok. Better than ok.

Hissy · 05/04/2015 02:06

I had a "tester/transition" relationship too, a year after the abusive relationahip ended.

Absolutely vital. We need to understand we can have a non abusive relationship on our terms and end it if an when necessary

mammadiggingdeep · 05/04/2015 08:13

Old fox and Hissy:

Thank you so much those words mean a lot right now. I will screen shot your posts and carry that around on my phone.

mammadiggingdeep · 05/04/2015 08:17

ComfortingCwtch:

You need friends...be cautious and careful but allow friends into your life. I understand your thinking but everybody needs friends. You deserve friends.

for you xx

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