It can happen to anyone? Abusive relationships

[LadyBlaBlah]

I hear this a lot on here and elsewhere and I understand the reason why we say this.

However I think it needs clarification as it totally disempowers women.

"It can happen to anyone who is ill informed about abusive relationships."

For many varied reasons, I think there are many women who do not even realise what abuse looks like/believe it is part of relationships/don't understand their self-esteem has been destroyed and so are sitting ducks for abusive men.

I had a long abusive relationship and only after 14 years did I put the label abusive on it even though there had been physical violence! And now, the thought that could happen to me again ("it can happen to anyone") is just ludicrous, there is no way this could happen again. I would recognise the signs and walk away.

This is not meant to victim blame but I just don't like the inference that this can happen to anyone and so we women cannot protect ourselves - I am absolutely 100% that this will not happen to me again - someone may try some one-off abuse but I will not be in a long term abusive relationship ever again.

The stronger and more confident you are then the less likely these men will try to date you anyway as they know you won't change for them. You are doing the right thing op

hissy what a great post.

op I don't agree. Sorry you have been in an abusive relationship - so have I. But I don't think you can spot signs on every abusive bloke especially on the first date. I think to go ready and armed with a check list of abusive traits is unrealistic. Which would lead you to take the blame if you did end up with some one abusive and they didn't reveal till months or years after.
My ex was not arrogant at all - he was actually quiet reserved when I met him, which drew me to him. Abusers come in all shapes and forms.

Erm bit heated here! It reminds me of the news today - talk of who 'won' the election debate. It is not a matter of winning but of communicating ideas so the Paxman egotistical type of interview is self-defeating. Anyway back to this topic. Assault is a crime and psychological abuse is abuse. Blame is a term we use for minor acts not crimes. In understanding the dynamics it is surely useful to analyse the patterns in the human behaviour. My Mum was a HV in a city with a lot of domestic abuse and believed that educating all young people about it - recognise it and know the classic patterns - was a no-brainer. She told her daughters 'if a man ever hits you end the relationship immediately or you are on a slippery slope'. If women/girls recognise the controlling obsequious behaviours that are typical of the early stages then they will see that they are creepy rather than flattering and send him packing.
Sadly it is those who are particularly vulnerable that these men seek out - and they themselves are often 'damaged goods'. DGs are not good parent material either and need to be given a wide berth. My Mum called it 'self-preservation'. But in seeking to empower women it would be an odd agenda that saw that as meaning that they were in any way responsible for the choices of the DG men!

It's not just about having self-worth and boundaries, although I agree these are really important. That can give you a false sense of security, I went from having loads of self-esteem and what I thought were good boundaries to having all of that slowly chipped away. If anything, only ever having seen really good relationships didn't give me any defences against someone so self-centred.

With the greatest of respect Hissy, the first part of your post is just not the case.

I am not operating from a feeling of fear, quite the opposite. I am not fearful of these men in any way now. I see them for what they are - if I encounter one. This is from knowledge and firm boundaries of which I am comfortable and confident with. I also now work with many abusive men so it is not just 'first date' scenarios where I have to make these judgements.

I do however agree that it is unacceptable behaviour that you are looking for at the beginning (back to boundaries etc.) not necessarily abuse. That again, comes from developing your self worth, and we are right back to where we started.

Men and women need to be taught that abuse is unacceptable. Full stop.

More and more women are being convicted of dv. It's rumoured to be AS prevalent regardless of gender, just that men don't report as much.

It's a can of worms though. If you, as a child/adolescent are shown what abuse is and why it's wrong, and recognise your home situation in that scenario, imagine the fall out.

We do need to educate children to understand what is and isn't right, but they have to have the support there too.

We need to start remembering the victims of dv, showing up their killers and punishing them properly.

Op, there are women here and in rl I know that work with abusers, and in dv who still fall for it.

I'm not wanting to sound defeatist, but abusers get their way by deploying tactics... And they are very good at it.

Boundaries are the way to protect ourselves, but understanding our vulnerability too is a great protector, and working out why we are attracted to certain people.

Joy - you do need to be armed with what abuse looks like, I disagree.

Why wouldn't you?

And I think you can learn to spot signs very early on which are not abuse but are certainly signs of an asshole with potential for abuse.

But if you've never seen a healthy relationship, understanding what one looks like is impossible

That about sums me up. My home life was shocking so when I met ex I thought he was pretty great. An improvement on my home life. It took me a year to realise he was a bastard and four more to leave as my esteem was rock bottom. I didn't think it was acceptable to be bullied. I just felt helpless and trapped.

When I met DP I thought he was heaven sent. I couldn't believe this man would want me (as my ex last words were " your broken biscuits - who would want you?) in fact DP is just your average normal caring bloke. Five years in it's took me to realise this is how normal people are.

You are victim blaming a bit op after all you spent 14 years in an abusive relationship have you worked out yet why you spent that among of time there?

Exactly.

The stronger and more confident you are then the less likely these men will try to date you anyway as they know you won't change for them

I beg to differ.

'Weak/mild' women are very rarely victims of abuse, the "feisty", popular "strong" are the ones these abusers are drawn to.

The abuser wants to acquire those qualities, admires them but rapidly realises that they can't, so sets about stripping that person of those qualities so they look the strong, popular together one.

I have a friend who was clearly in an abusive relationship; the things he said, the way he controlled what she wore, what she was up to, her trying to please him, changing for him. We all tried to say, and then had a child. She thankfully now has broken up with him, but she says he only became abusive after she had a baby. Of course he didn't to any woman with a 'normal'perspective as it was clearly obvious he was always like it

I know what you are saying Hissy and I don't think I am impervious completely.

However there is this strange rhetoric that abusive men are so clever. I think they are getting credit where it is not due.

That phrase tells us they will always outwit us always because of superior cleverness. I just don't think that is helpful.

Abuse is perpetrated through weakness not strength. Understand this and you're halfway out

The day I saw my ex unravel was a blessing. He became someone I never knew.

Now I just wonder wtf was I ever thinking

I suppose my friend is quite loud and feisty, but it is all surface, underneath she is very vulnerable. She is only early 20s and it has happened 3 times. She says she doesn't feel sexually attracted to men who she sees as boring, they aren't boring though. She admits she sees it is as exciting. She is getting somewhere now, but it has took us years and years of us explaining to her why things aren't acceptable

Joy - yes I have worked out why I was in an abusive relationship. Similar to you that my template from childhood was shit -leaving low self esteem but not in your stereotypical sense - I was always seen as very 'strong' the type described above, but I also had fucked up ideas on a women's role, the 'stick together and work at it' philosophy, he doesn't mean it, don't be over emotional stuff etc etc. You get the idea.

But that doesn't now mean I will be vulnerable for ever. And who knows what would have happened if I had been educated about healthy relationships in my teens. I wasn't so I'll never know.

"Abuse is perpetrated through weakness not strength"

Absolutely and that is why I said I don't fear them.

Hissy - I love your 9.40 post, especially the quote from your therapist.

I can pinpoint the exact moment about 2 months in I should have walked away from ex H. BUT I wouldn't have DS then, who is everything.

Anyway, rambling, but I really liked that advice.

Abusers are a waste of oxygen. they serve no purpose at all, and are never cured.

They have to make a gargantuan effort to be nice enough to get the people they want in their lives.

To them that effort is exhausting, it goes against their nature.

Yes, that's what it takes for an abuser to be nice. Enormous effort.

The same enormous effort it takes for the rest of us to be nasty.

There are people who are abusers, there are people who are arseholes, they don't have to be abusive to be an arsehole.. They can just be an arsehole.

The men are very weak, and that is why they hate women that challenge them. Her exes called me every name under the sum for calling them out on their sexist and controlling ways. They feel threatened by it

I told my ex I wished I'd never met him.

He said "ah but you wouldn't have ds then"

"No", I said, "I wouldn't. I'd have another child who I'd love just as much, but who would have a Good dad, one that he and I could be proud of having in our lives, instead of being blighted by your presence in ours"

Calling them up on it, defeats them immediately bonnie, I've had the same experience.

I can see fear in their eyes when I call them up on it, never mind me being fearful !!

I'm a Stately Homer too. Am nc with most of my family.

Ex is abroad and harmless. Currently in super dad mode.

Yeah whatever. Thinks sending £400 after 2 years without a bean, and telling ds that I'm going to buy him an iPod is ok...

lady I'm not stereotypical and I too was was strong minded. Loved parting, was loud and gregarious. In fact we sound very similar. In fact the whole scenario will be very similar to a lot of abusive relationships.

Not all abusers are 'clever' some are your bog standard louts who are very visible and some are 'clever' who are well hidden.

I think you sound as if you feel to blame in some way. Your not.

OP, I think that this thread is unwise, on a page where there are women posting, or considering posting, with an attitude of "Is it me? Am I to blame for the abuse I am enduring?"

And we know there are a lot of those, only too eager to keep on blaming themselves.

Yes, victims of abuse tend to be giving types, who are focused on the needs of others. That is not abuser-bait: that is what makes a society function! Most people are kind and giving, and concerned about the needs of others. And plenty of these kind and giving people end up in relationships with people who do not take advantage of their giving nature.

What makes an abusive relationships is therefore not a victim who is willing to tolerate more than s/he should. It is the presence of an abuser. Without the abuser, there would be no abusive relationship.

You say that if women were wise to the mechanics of abuse, then they wouldn't get into abusive relationships. That is not so, in my experience. I completely identified my ex-h's behaviour as abusive: I would even tell him "That's a wife-beater's excuse!" when he would tell me "It's your fault, you made me do it." I could recognise it, no problem. But I was still in denial that it was happening to me -- an educated, feminist, strong and independent woman. Precisely because I was so god-damned educated: it couldn't happen to me, right?

You can educate women all you want. Abusers will still abuse them. Because that is what abusers do. And it's all on them.