It can happen to anyone? Abusive relationships

[LadyBlaBlah]

I hear this a lot on here and elsewhere and I understand the reason why we say this.

However I think it needs clarification as it totally disempowers women.

"It can happen to anyone who is ill informed about abusive relationships."

For many varied reasons, I think there are many women who do not even realise what abuse looks like/believe it is part of relationships/don't understand their self-esteem has been destroyed and so are sitting ducks for abusive men.

I had a long abusive relationship and only after 14 years did I put the label abusive on it even though there had been physical violence! And now, the thought that could happen to me again ("it can happen to anyone") is just ludicrous, there is no way this could happen again. I would recognise the signs and walk away.

This is not meant to victim blame but I just don't like the inference that this can happen to anyone and so we women cannot protect ourselves - I am absolutely 100% that this will not happen to me again - someone may try some one-off abuse but I will not be in a long term abusive relationship ever again.

Surfboardcat - I am sorry you have experienced that.

When did you realise it was an abusive relationship? Can you look back now and see there were signs at the start?

Someone upthread said I should have walked at 2 months. I think that is quite common looking back in hindsight, I have had the same. So how do we get women to act early? I don't think telling people that "abusers are so clever" (i.e. you'll never beat them) or it can happen to anyone (there is nothing you can do) is ultimately in the women's best interest.

"It can happen to anyone"

That phrase did empower me though. When I realise what had been happening in my marriage, I felt awful. Was so ashamed that I allowed someone to teat me so badly, that I allowed my self to be abused again. I was ashamed of myself and couldn't even talk of what had happened to close friends who had no idea of what was going on behind closed doors. And I say again, there was no violence, but there was gas lighting, making me feel I had no other choice, I wouldn't be able to live on my own, all I was useful for was seeing to his needs. And when I didn't see to his sexual needs, I was a failure as a wife, I was selfish...you get the picture.

The phrase "it can happen to anyone" allowed me to see that it was ok, it wasn't my fault, and yes of course I would have much rather have spent that time not being abused, but I was. It happened to me AGAIN, but I am stronger again.

The phrase has made me less ashamed and more able to deal with the fact that despite my best intentions, I did end up in an abusive relationship despite me being resolute it would never happen again.

I think there are many women who do not even realise what abuse looks like/believe it is part of relationships/don't understand their self-esteem has been destroyed and so are sitting ducks for abusive men.

Yes. That's me. I still don't think my relationships were abusive because I wasn't hit. Throttled, pushed under water and treated like sh*t but never actually hit.

And that is why we use that phrase and I totally see it reduces shame - but then to be very harsh, it is not our shame to have anyway and that shame is a reflection of the culture in which does victim blame.

So if we truly believed that it was not our fault we would not need the phrase at all. All blame/shame would be firmly on the abuser.

Yes, certainly Agree with your last post.
Its a tricky one to articulate. Part of my ex's abuse was to make out I enjoyed playing the martyr. It really fed the abuse because I did not at all enjoy the victim role, but nnothing I did or Said would ever make him let up! So in one way it was such a relief when I could allow myself to think of myself as a victim without the shame. If that makes sense. It helped me find my strength, recognise it hadbeen there all along aand now to let it flourish. I would love to think that with this knowledge and the beautiful gift of hindsight I would not get involved with an abusive twat again, but at the same time abusive people also come in all Shapes and sizes and if it was a very different type it would possibly take some time to unravel. Having Said that I think and believe and hope that the relationship I 'm in now is lovely and good.

Hissy, I am loving your posts on this thread.

I consider myself a very well educated fully grown woman who has a totally crap (read non-existent) template of healthy relationships and I managed to marry two emotional abusers. I know it is because I have desperately looked for "Love" all my life. For now, my only relationship is going to be with myself and this is probably for the first time in my life.

It also took me a while after reading about EA on here and various links from here to physically leave. It felt to me like a washing machine churning my emotions around, from high to low to high again.

Its going to be very important to me for neither of my two girls to have any experiences like I have had when they meet partners of their own.

It can happen to anyone. It starts slowly, and gets worse, and how quickly you get away depends on multiple factors (whether you have money or family support, whether you were properly loved by your family and raised with self esteem or not, whether you are involved in a misogynistic community or culture such as a highly religious one...)
I do think it's worth repeating and widely spreading various abuse red flags along with the message that you don't have to put up with it, that it is OK to dump a man for behaviour that worries you even if it's on the low end of the scale. It's important to counter the various persistent cultural messages that a woman-hating arsehole can be redeemed by 'true love', that relationships need 'work' ie total submission from the woman, and that ending a romantic relationship is an awful thing to do.
If you start to date someone and you suspect abuse indicators and you dump the person immediately, some people will tell you that was a bad thing to do, that you should give him (or her) a chance, maybe s/he was just having a bad day or is insecure or whatever. No. Give no chances. None.
Because the worst that can happen if you dump someone because you percieve abuser red flags is that you're single. The worst that can happen if you ignore those red flags is that the abuser kills you and your children.

Totally agree with Witchofthenorth when she says that "It could happen to anyone" IS empowering.

Because any other statement, that says "It happened to you because of such and such about you" is victim blaming.

Frankly, OP, I think you have hit upon your formula of "It won't happen to me again because now I know better" is just a way of making yourself feel safe from future abuse.

Am hiding the thread now, because victim blaming stinks.

I don't think the OP IS victim blaming.

I was in a (thankfully short) emotionally abusive relationship. I could be the ideal example of 'it could happen to anyone' as I have extensive professional experience of working in MH including working with perpetrators of d/v. I am independent, attractive, confident and well - educated and bloody KNOW abusers and how they work.

And yes I had alarm bells going off pretty soon with him but I ignored them. Some of that was due to the fact that he is an incredibly clever man and in a powerful, responsible position (Psychiatrist) and I felt there was NO way he could be that fucked up and no way he could be an abuser and be blind to it (he's also trained in Psychotherapy).

And lots of things came to light about him and I did step out of the 'drama triangle' and did what should be done and the Universe is now taking care of him (I can't say how, ongoing investigations).

But now I'm having therapy and through my own examination of my actions and emotions I see that despite all my knowledge and experience and confidence I WAS vulnerable to someone as clever, powerful and manipulative as him and there are many reasons why I was which I need to look at and change.

I think lots of people experiencing the alarm bells I had would have listened to them and walked away. I didn't and that's what I needed to look at and understand.

And I can't say never say never but I think that now I understand myself better, I wouldn't ignore or excuse those alarm bells anymore. I think that's what the OP is saying.

I will say here that I am a better person because of what I have been put through. I'm stronger and more confident in my own abilities to protect myself.

I realise though with the recent exbf situation that I still override my instincts and boundaries to my own detriment and that is something I do need to really watch. I thought I was safe, I wasn't.

We are not victim blaming when we say that we do have a responsibility to make boundaries of what is and isn't acceptable to us, and police those boundaries. It's bloody hard, as it often goes against a lifetime of conditioning, but listening to our instincts, and making decisons are vital to being the best and safest we can be.

Yes abusers shouldn't abuse, and arseholes shouldn't be arseholes, but they are. We can't stop them making the choices they make, but we can refuse to accept them.

Society needs to work hard on equality, on making sure that sexism is removed and that women are not called crap like "feisty" when all they are is as focussed/determined/positive as men are, but it's a bad thing for women to be.

I think I understand what the OP is saying too, always

But I don't think the phrase I question is as disempowering as the OP says. I agree that that the shame should be on the abusers and not on the abused, absolutely! However, I was convinced that I would never NEVER, be in that position again. I would never compromise who I am for another person, never allow myself to be on another victim of abuse, but it happened so slowly. I wasn't ashamed that I had been in a abusive relationship, but that despite my previous experience, and despite the strong, intelligent woman I had become, it happened again.

So the phrase "it can happen to anyone" was my strength and gave me the permission to forgive myself and my blatant ignoring of red flags.

It also allowed me, along with past experience, to end a potentially VERY abusive relationship where there was a history of DV and it could have very nearly have been me. The subtle red flags were there and I took notice.

I would like to say that I will never be in that position again, but sometimes it is soooo I insidious you are entrenched before you know. But I am more noticing of traits I find unacceptable and deal with them a lot quicker now.

There are phases in our recovery from abuse. 5 yrs on I see I'm in a new phase. I too thought I had it all boxed off. I don't

I think those of is that don't fall prey to abuse innately have boundaries in places all the time, they don't have to work at it.

Our children must never hear that they are useless, fat, stupid, thick, unworthy or trouble. Conditioning like this is one of the causes of poor self belief. It creates a hunger for approval, love, acceptance.

That hunger sends a beacon call to those who would abuse it.

It's not he victim's fault, but victims can do something to ensure their safety, as non victims do, but subconsciously

Hissy and Witch - I agree and that's where I'm coming from and I think the OP too.

I see on threads all the time and hear it in RD that abusers have a sixth sense for vulnerability or KNOW who to target.

I disagree with that completely. They're not superhuman or psychic - what happens is they push boundaries with multiple women. And that could be as simple as invading personal space or asking personal questions too soon or testing their power soon. Or being cold, distant, possessive or whatever.

And lots of women/people back off because they feel uncomfortable or that something feels wrong or invasive or any other reason. And the 'abuser' walks away and the woman/person walks away and writes it off as a bad experience.

But some (including me on this occasion) don't. And then more boundaries get pushed, some more red flags appear and some more might walk away at that point but the ones left (me!) find themselves in an abusive situation.

I felt it was wrong at times. KNEW it felt/seemed abusive but I doubted myself/made excuses/wanted to 'fix him'.

I don't think it's wrong to suggest that I played my part in playing 'his game' and that not everyone else would have done.

Sorry, RD should be RL as in real life.

LadyBlaBlah, I just want to say that the circumstances under which you called out your friend's abusive OH was very brave and IMO the right thing to do. Whether the consequences were ideal I don't know, and probably neither will you for a long time if ever. It would have been unwise, perhaps, to have called him on mistreatment of her, as your earlier post may have led readers to assume, as it may have driven her away/let him know you were an enemy. But expressing strong disapproval of dreadful behaviour such as animal cruelty and blatant racism in front of you is right and decent. Your friend may have laughed (in a shocked sort of way) because she didn't dare do otherwise, or maybe she thought it was OK really, just "one of his little ways," but she could see from a third party's reaction that it was not OK and that it was OK to say that it was not OK. Hopefully this will work away in her subconscious mind and one day may be a factor in helping her decide to get out. If not, well, keeping your mouth shut that day probably wouldn't have helped either.

I've said this before I know, but probably the only really helpful thing I got out of our brief, unproductive spell of couples counselling was seeing the counsellor's reaction to some of XH's weirder statements, and to "The Voice" he used on her just once (she almost leaped back in her chair!). There was a stranger, an adult, a trained professional being thoroughly taken aback by things he had told me I was over-reacting to. I wasn't weird or over-sensitive - it really was something thoroughly peculiar to say, it really was a quite scary tone of voice. It was immensely validating.

It is exactly what the latest posters are saying - there are many people who ignore warning signs (me included) - small seemingly insignificant boundary pushes which will be showing right from the off - and only in hindsight we can see the error of "giving people a chance" when they have done something 'off'. Possibly a large part of this is how romantic love is set up, and how women are socialised to be submissive and

And that is why that phrase about "it can happen to anyone" is misleading to me. It tells me that whatever I do, I am at risk. Yes, I am absolutely at risk of meeting abusive men, but I do not have to be at risk of staying in an abusive relationship. I can mitigate that risk by being aware and confident enough to stand with my boundaries.

An interesting test of this would be what we think about our daughters and their chances of being in an abusive relationship - would we say there is nothing they can do - it can happen to anyone?

If not, why can we not say that about ourselves.

"It can happen to anyone" is not the same as "there's nothing you can do", though. Anyone might be suckered into an abusive relationship, but there are things they can do to (a) reduce the likelihood (b) recognise it if it does happen, and most importantly (c) not stay in it longer than you absolutely have to. So what you're saying about education and boundaries is of course very sensible, but it isn't 100% guaranteed to prevent you ever falling for the wrong person again. When/if you ever do, you need to let go of any embarrassment on the lines of "really should have seen that coming, after all that work I did on myself, I feel such a fool" etc and just go "Hello, one of these is it, now how can I disentangle myself as soon as humanly possible?" Once you're out, yes, by all means think how you got there and consider whether it may be preventable next time. Never dating anyone again, ever, would seem to be a bit drastic and definitely not in the long-term interests of the human race! (And even then you may end up in other kinds of abusive relationship eg in the workplace.) Accepting that it may happen despite your best efforts is the first step to allowing yourself to recognise that it has, if that makes sense, and shortens the time it takes to work on getting out.

Kind of like going on a road safety awareness course, then not bothering with insurance because obviously you're never going to be dumb enough to get caught in an accident. Not realistic, is it?!

I know for one that I need to be careful about who I find attractive - as what I'm conditioned to find attractive isn't always healthy.

For me I have to remind myself that I need to beware of the spark.

That's not blaming myself, it's protecting myself.

What an interesting thread! I agree with everybody

My "what if"s are only two, very fundamental things:
If I'd had Mumsnet, I would have been less confused & susceptible to my abusers' methods.
If my parents had had a healthy relationship, I would have been open to non-abusive partners. As it was, I didn't recognise them. I thought all relationships were abusive.

But my boundary issues aren't everybody's. Loads of people with genuinely solid, emotionally healthy families also fall prey to abuse, despite having all the good templates. Loads of psychotherapists, DV workers and divorce lawyers are abused, despite knowing all the facts and patterns. And many of them put up with abuses I wouldn't have tolerated, because they are not me and vice versa.

Much of what we want to characterise as vulnerability to abuse is simple, human vulnerability. You can't have intimate relationships without showing your vulnerability (I'm not preaching here, I'm well aware that I'm destroying my own chances of intimacy through fear!) You can't love and be loved without compassion. Emotional honesty and compassion are wide open to abuse, but we can't function fully as people without them or while hiding them.

I agree the supposed cleverness of abusers is all in the eye of the beholder. Since the majority of abusers begin by exploiting their targets' good qualities, however, and undermining their judgement, every abuser is clever. Each abuser cleverly gets to know his/her target's strengths and cleverly manipulates them into weaknesses. By the time a target comes to us, she truly believes her abuser is exceptionally clever. because that's an intended effect of the abuse.

All children should, in my very strong opinion, be taught properly about relationship dynamics both good & bad - Freedom Programme style - and also about interpersonal respect, rights & responsibilities. They should be taught assertiveness. All adults who suffer abuse should be properly taught these things, as well.

But there will still be abusers, and there will still be targets for them - because abuse is no more or less than distorted love. And, if we want love, we are vulnerable.

Essay, sorry

I have had three abusive relationships. Who is responsible for that? Me or the people who abused me? Or my parents for telling me that they should have aborted me?

I haven't read all four pages, but I have been in an abusive relationship for 9 years. Out of it 8. I agree with what you're saying because it would never happen again. So I'm not at risk now. So therefore, it couldn't "happen to anyone". I was vulnerable (recently dumped, domineering mother) the first time around in a way that I@m not now. so imo you are right OP

comforting Cwtch, there's a difference between blaming yourself and identifying a vulnerability. Have you had psychotherapy?

Hissy, I agree with that. There's a man in my office, averagely handsome but very outgoing. He's like a wolf in sheeps clothing because all of his unpleasant opinions are presented as jokes. I know the old me would have tried to 'set him straight'. Now I just keep a wider berth.

Cwtch, your abusers are responsible for abusing you. You were responsible for tolerating abuse, and your parents were responsible for making you tolerant.

It's not straightforward :) But neither is it excessively complicated!

The complicated part, ime, is re-parenting yourself and acquiring new templates/schemas. That has to be one of the most loving things we can do for ourselves.

ladyblahblah I really agree with this statement "However there is this strange rhetoric that abusive men are so clever. I think they are getting credit where it is not due."

I agree with that statement. Somebody else said that they haven't got super powers, they're not psychic, they just test the boundaries with all women and most walk away or never return their call, and vulnerable people try to make things right.

I know I was vulnerable. I understand the reasons completely. Doesn't excuse my x for having been so awful to me but I do understand how it happened. It wouldn't happen again.

I am not in the 'super power' phase though. Not sure when that comes! I have been free for 8 years and had two more normal relationships. They ended for more ordinary reasons and the break ups were a lot easier. One of them I miss, but it just wasn't right. He had a low self-esteem. I couldn't fix him. weird because before it's always been me that had the low self-esteem in a relationship.