But we took you to Stately Homes

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

It's March 2015 and the Stately Home is still open to visitors. Unfortunately I have not been able to make the links work; is it possible for one of you lovely people to do that?.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Something has just clicked with me - my mother has always given off a general feeling that I am the one who should be looking after HER. as if it's my responsibility as a good daughter to care and counsel her .. I used to counsel her when I was a teenager about her problems for example. She is very needy.

^ me too... x

www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/parentification/

I know there are some things I could have done differently, (for example I should have called my mother back sooner) but the backlash I get for that (upset, hurt tones, subtle but not enough to mention anything but I KNOW what she is trying to do. even though I apologise profusely) if I do seem on guard with her, the implication is that I am being uncaring. There is always a sense of must try harder.

^^THis. Totally get this. My mother does exactly this. Also, "self-obsessed, insecure, guilt-tripper" describes her to a tee.

You are not alone

Do we have the same mother? my mother has always given off a general feeling that I am the one who should be looking after HER. as if it's my responsibility as a good daughter to care and counsel her .. I used to counsel her when I was a teenager about her problems for example. She is very needy.

Mine was noticed by a distant sort of relative of my father's on one of the very few times she saw us (we lived a long way away and obviously we didn't see much of his side after they divorced). She wrote and told me recently in the wake of NC that she had got the very strong impression when I was about 13 that my mother had expected me to care for to the expense of everything else when I grew up and was so glad when I'd moved aborad (away from DM) and got married. There must have been a seriously weird dynamic going on in our family for her to think that based on one afternoon at a safari park!!

hippymama so sorry you had that experience. There was no affection in my family either. My grandparents called me evil once. It's now that I have my son that I think 'how can you say that to a child??!'
goodtobetter thank you for sharing that too. Although it's awful it's reassuring to know there are others who felt the same, because it isn't our fault. For years and years I just thought I was a freak with a terrible attitude.
I have problems with my abusive ex too, and my in laws, so sometimes it feels overwhelming x

Have read all the posts since my last post. Will post generally as for some reason this morning I am struggling to follow who said what

It is not our fault (always struggle to remember and doesn't make it easier to deal with). Even if we should have done things differently it does not warrant the reaction/abuse

Well done for the new job or good luck to those are building up a new business.

My mother doesn't drink so she is fully in this world when she makes any comments.

Sleepy many years ago I had a bit of a bad time. Became depressed and my Doctor sent me for counselling and this was where I made the discovery that I had never been cuddled as s child/young adult. It floored me and was such a revelation. Things were still bad after the counselling and my DH searched for a therapist to help me. She was a therapist who also used hypnosis to relax and regress. I learnt so much about myself and read lots of books and started to develop tools for dealing with them. I got stronger and became more adult in my dealings with them.

Hippy I too have had lifelong disordered eating and always feel fat and not good enough. I'm not but that's how I have felt which is a sad way to have visualized myself all these years. I did work on cuddling and healing my inner child in therapy years ago and it was very interesting and emotional. You become the protector of the child you were through visualising her as still there inside you.

Milllli that sounds really interesting - what kind of therapy did you do to do that visualisation? Are there any books I could read that you know of?

I will have a look at the books I have and tell you what I read later. The therapy was with a psychotherapist who did hypnosis and regression.

Great - thank you Milllli!

What I find is it's important to speak to someone who doesn't try and get you to see it from both sides, and how you might be at fault. It just makes you beat yourself up/try even harder to please them which as we know is never going to happen. As they think it's completely your fault aswell!

Have any of you been on the Freedom Programme? I went because of my abusive ex and found it invaluable, and also learnt a lot about my parents. I am on the next level up now which teaches you how to deal with the emotional side of things. It's amazingly insightful x

I think the biggest thing that tortures me the most is trying to decide whether it is my fault or not.

I mean this in a positive way: fault isn't relevant. Worrying about 'fault' is a tool in the FOG (the delightful blanket of Fear, Obligation and Guilt that many people end up with who have very flawed or downright nasty parents, that draws them back for more when really it's the wrong thing for them to be doing).

if one day you can stand back and decide what is an appropriate level of responsibility to take for contact without feeling guilty, that's a good thing to do.

my mother has always given off a general feeling that I am the one who should be looking after HER

if you can, take a look at a book called Mothers Who Can't Love by Susan Forward. She has a section about mothers like this. They want YOU to be the mother. They are emotionally not competent adults (usually because they have had a bad background) and unfortunately, they can suck you dry.

There can be good and constructive ways of handling a mother like this, but it takes practise and good guidance.

GoodtoBetter that must really have validated you, when your distant relative said that! did you tell your brother? :)

milllli ... that is so sad, that you were never hugged or cuddled

Thankyou Meerka. I was with a therapist when I suddenly realised. It was a shock. Don't know why I had never realised it before. I was 28 at the time. I must have blocked it off in some way.

Meerka agree about fault, but it's so ingrained in us, it's so hard to get out of that mindset.

Yes I told Dbro and he remembered the day, sort of and also thought it was very interesting and made him wondered about other things and how we looked to others.
I also told my therpaist and he thought it was very telling.
I wrote to him last week about upcoming birthdays and so on and mentioned maybe having another session, but he said he would encourage me not to, that I was doing really well (told him about house purchase and exam results, he'd known those things were coming up) and that it hadn't been that long since last session and that I was doing great and basically to believe in myself and hang on for a bit if I could.
Was good actually, made me feel a bit vindicated, that he was sort of vindicating my decision to keep NC, as I suppose that's how the bday's mad eme feel, the FOG for being NC. Does that make sense? So anyway I felt much calmer about things after that.

The guilt of not doing tge right thing shouldn't be one children need to think about. When children feel loved unconditionally then they don't feel the need/guilt to run after their parents coat tails.

How are you today Meerka?

Yes it is goodtobetter. I struggle with it too. I feel useless and a failure and a bad daughter still, it's gone very deep. Was just saying it as it helps a bit to hear it from outside that these feelings are an helpful legacy and not feelings that we ought to listen to =)

Am okay milllli thank you :) it helps a lot that I have a family of my own now ... though I'm always deeply deeply afraid of turning into my appalling biological mother and damaging our children. It doesn't help that I was very ill around the pregs (HG) and very weak after, so I couldnt do much with them ... and you always feel worse emotionally when you're weak physically. But I also get help and support professionally which makes a big difference. Specially with changing the patterns in my head, if you know what I mean.

Looking back and now I do think my mother is a narc. I also had a stepfather - not unkind but not my dad. I was a serious child and tend to be serious now, it is just the way I am. One of the things I remember is the constant criticism - too serious, mousey, not jolly, wouldn't join in, not very bright, too plain, always coughing or having a cold, etc, etc. I can remember thinking as a child of six, how can I be a jolly girl when I'm never good enough.

And then there was the mickey taking by step father (and perhaps I was oversensitive) but he he used to call me candles (runny nose), ugly mug, tell me no boy would ever kiss me if I bit my lip, and then that I was a misery and needed to learn to take a joke.

I was never hit, or hungry or went without and was always told I was a very lucky little girl.

I didn't really comprehend until I had my own children and knew I lived them so much I would only ever be kind to them. It took my 11 year old saying I don't want to go to grandmas forva few days in the holidays mummy. How did you put up with her when you were young, to make me realised the enormity of it. I have read a lit more since then. I'm 55 and would live to please my mother but know I never shall.

Sorry for a moan but it was good to get that out.

are an helpful legacy errr an unhelpful legacy

Sorry for all the typos

yeesh beaufort. How unkind were they :(

your 11 year old has a lot more smarts than they did! They sound thoroughly mean.

Beaufort Your post reminds me of the phrase 'you have a face only a mother could love'.

Children are often very perceptive.

I love my DC to bits and would hate them to feel the way I do

Meerka yes having your own family is often a trigger for seeing the impact your own parents had on your childhood. I mean we are all doing the best we can and we won't get everything right but usually if your parents were toxic then once you are aware of that you can change the pattern. My kids are in their twenties now and I was the Mum to them that I wanted mine to be and then some!

Beaufort I went no contact when my kids were babies. I didn't want my children been subjected to my parents and their toxic ways.
I often think they are totally unaware of how they were and always wonder why they wanted to hurt, ridicule, blame, nasty to their little girl. If I upset my mother she would not talk to me for days. I would try talking to her and she would pretend I didn't exist. How bloody cruel is that. Grrrrr!