Any other 44 year-old virgins out there ?

[vienna1981]

I'm one (male) . How does it feel ? It's something I think about every day, like a rite of passage from youth that simply passed me by.

My ex was a virgin in the 30s and I was his first. He was a lovely man (we split because we were just pretty different) and I think the fact that his own parents very unhappy relationship was a big reason why he hadn't had sex before.

Sex with him was perfectly good and I hope that he has now moved onto someone right for him with whom it is hot - I can well imagine it might have.

I agree with Roark - it wasn't a big deal for me, and I think many decent women would simply understand.

I think the issue is not so much that you are a virgin but that you are clearly having problems meeting women and forming relationships with them at all. In order to have sex you must first have formed some sort of mental and/or physical connection with someone, be it a deep and meaningful friendship that leads naturally to sex, or just a flirty prelude to a one night stand.

The fixating on being a virgin is completely understandable but it might's probably overshadowing your ability to strike up relaxed and friendly conversations with women in the first place. What do you actually do and where do you go in order to be around women and get to know them better? Do you work with women and have any as real friends, for instance? Do you have hobbies and a good social life? Do you do online dating? What happens when you try to date a woman? Does it ever get further than the first date?

Maybe change your goal? So instead of meeting a woman and thinking "I need to have sex with her" change it to "I'd like to have a really enjoyable conversation" then "I'd like to find out more about her" "I'd like to go for a drink" "go for a date" "have a nice snog" etc etc. If it's on your mind lots then it's probably making you act a bit nervous and off- putting for the woman. Does that make sense? Just break it down to easier manageable parts type thing?

NeedABumChange Maybe change your goal? So instead of meeting a woman and thinking "I need to have sex with her" change it to "I'd like to have a really enjoyable conversation" then "I'd like to find out more about her" "I'd like to go for a drink" "go for a date" "have a nice snog" etc

I'm guessing that the OP has had plenty of time to think about that by the age of 44 though, and that the problem is more that he has cast himself in the role of victim, with his reasons for that laid out in advance - social phobia, anxiety, women turn him down, etc.. He comes across a very passive, as if things happen to him, but he can do precious little about it. I agree that these are the sort of things he should try.

Not to belittle his issues, but many people suffer such things happening to them in the world of dating, its how you react to them that's important. And that goes for all of us.

Actually one of my best friends is, I believe, still a virgin at 38. She had part of one leg amputated due to cancer which makes her wary of dating men she doesn't know. She is also going through an early menopause due to the side effects of the chemo she had.
She has only dated 1 man - he was very selfish so she ended it before dtd.

She is pretty and more confident than me at talking to men, the problem is that she lives in a small town & works in a small place with no opportunity to meet men. She won't online date and has stopped wanting to socialise at night (which has upset MY social life). I feel that she has given up on men without even starting.

I also know a man who is a virgin at 27 - he's Pakistani Pashtun and in his culture you don't have girlfriends. When he decides to marry is when he will lose his virginity. We chat on Facebook and he is quite honest about it.
His friends are all in a similar situation.

So it is more common than you'd think.

The best way to meet women is online dating at your age. Try Tinder or Plenty of Fish, they're free. They can be hook up sites but are also for dating. I use them and so do my friends.
Also set up a Facebook account if you haven't got one - chat to old classmates for example.
Join a Gym where there are lots of groups - do weights and women will soon fancy you. At my gym we have book groups, wine tasting groups, running groups, walking club, circuits etc etc.

Check your appearance is up to scratch - go to a fashionable hairdresser like Toni & Guy (if you still have much hair! If not get a grade 1.)
Look at how other men dress (smart & fashionable men that is). Next for men is affordable and fashionable.
Get a group of friends - try meetup.com.
Shower daily and wear deodorant!

Finally don't be negative. Don't think ''I'm a virgin with XYZ problems'' think ''I'm a nice, kind, fun guy who deserves to meet a nice woman''.

I think Chandler is right, small goals. Aim for 1) Asking a woman to go for coffee 2) Actually going for coffee 3) Asking her on a date 4) Going for a date 5) Walking her home 6) A peck on the cheek 7) A goodnight kiss.

As a postscript, I agree with your conclusion on prostitution - but the justification of "they're not cheap enough" doesn't sit well with me!

Well, yes, I'd have had more sympathy with 'I refuse to pay into a trade that exploits vulnerable women' than 'why should I pay when other people don't?'

I think women can smell that certain kind of desperation and awkwardness a mile off tbh, it can be very offputting. I think you do need to work on yourself, deal with your demons - be them anxiety/social phobia or whatever.

People find other people attractive when they are happy in their own skin. What do you enjoy doing? What makes you happy? What makes you laugh? Develop your interests and hobbies so you have something to talk about (obvs without being a bore). Can you chat comfortably with men and women?

I've met men who seem to view women as some sort of other species! Women like to be talked to just like everyone else - as a person. They like to be found attractive - but all too often that can cross over into the uncomfortable creepy/leery

Are you well groomed? Do you have your hair cut regularly/shower everyday/wear clean clothes? These things also matter imo.

Is it lack of opportunity/meeting suitable partners, or your own fear of the physical act of sex that is holding you back? If you get to the bottom of that, the rest should come fairly naturally.

Well, yes, I'd have had more sympathy with 'I refuse to pay into a trade that exploits vulnerable women' than 'why should I pay when other people don't?'

I second that.

By the way Vienna is a regular poster. Surprised to discover he is a 44 year old man, but there are all sorts on here!

Thankyou for your detailed replies everybody. Clearly a lot of thought has gone into what you are saying and I appreciate that.

Firstly, can I make clear that I don't condone prostitution. Perhaps I didn't phrase myself that well.

I have become stuck in something of a rut over the years to the point where I have more of an existence than a life.
I don't have any friends beyond one or two casual work acquaintances. Popular culture, e.g. television, films, sport and modern music are all completely off the radar for me. Genuinely I hardly watch TV and I have no interest at all in any sport or cinema. No hobbies either to speak of. Occasionally I go swimming or walking when the weather is nice. I have a very nice pub and a new coffee shop just a few minutes from my front door. I almost always go out alone though; I suppose this is what I have become accustomed to and what I prefer. I can be entirely self-centred in my leisure time, although not in a nasty way.

My wardrobe is extremely basic, casual and simple. I dress inexpensively and comfortably. No fancy brogues, pricey jeans and shirts for me. Just t-shirts, jumpers, sweatshirts and cheap but decent quality trainers. I do a manual, largely outdoor, job so our uniform and boots are supplied. BTW there are only two women in our workforce, one of whom works on the opposite shift, the other is taken and not a particularly nice person !

Something I do take special care of is personal appearance. Whilst I don't care for smart clothes generally, what I do wear is always clean and in good condition. I shower or bath every day, shave every day and shampoo every day. I can't abide dirty hair, stubble, BO etc.

Apparently I am capable of making people laugh, though I admit a frown is my default expression. A young woman I used to work with until recently (of whom I was particularly fond) often remarked on this. I miss her hugely .

If I give the impression I'm too focused on DTD then I can understand why that might be but I promise it's not the case. I certainly don't consider any woman I talk to as an automatic potential screw. But I admit I do struggle to establish a rapport with women generally and without this basis I will likewise struggle to progress to successive stages.

Too much time on the internet then? There seems to be a whole legion of men (and presumably women) who spend a lot of time with what are basically internet pen pals, messaging back and forth. Its quite sweet really. Theres a man at my work who has several "online girlfriends" in Iran, Pakistan, parts of the UK and Europe, and America. He too is single and never has had a serious girlfriend. To be frank, I have to say if I found out that a potential boyfriend was in touch with a host of women on the internet, or spent a lot of on a site like mumsnet, it would be a huge red flag for me.

Chandler. I don't even own a computer. This smart phone is as close as I get. Internet access at the office is limited and the local library computers block dating sites.

I have become stuck in something of a rut over the years to the point where I have more of an existence than a life.

That sentence just screams out at me. This is what you need to work on, I'd say. There is nothing wrong with a quiet existence if you are happy with it- except that in your case you most definitely are craving something that is 'missing'? Or are you? Is sex something you feel you should have had when you were younger (you mention a rite of passage)? Or are you looking to share your life/a sexual rrelationship with a significant other? Or a fling?

It sounds very much as though you are self-contained, existing in your own little bubble. Maybe you need to reach out a bit more. Pick something you're interested in, maybe one thing. Join something? A club, a quiz team, something social that requires teamwork?

I'll be honest with you - if you had no interest in pop culture/TV/sport/cinema/music I would struggle to break the ice and chat to you. Maybe gain an interest in TV a bit, or music?

There's nothing wrong with a frown necessarily - lots of women like broody men! Mr Darcy?

The NHS in many cases will only be able to provide 12 weeks of therapy (sometimes less). This length of treatment can be helpful, but for life long problems, it is not always enough. Yes, private counselling is expensive, but how much do you value your mental health? A weekly counselling session might cost about £3000 for a year. But people will happily spend that on a holiday and sometimes several times that amount on a car.

sorry, thread moved on, mine was in response to vienna1981 post 21:25:18

I think you need to shake your life up a bit to get rid of the feeling of being in a rut.

You have an outdoor job. Do you have skills that could be used in volunteering -- National Trust properties for instance are always in need of maintenance and repair, and although you'd be unlikely to meet an instant soulmate, you never know? Break up the semi-contented routine and look around you.

If you like the outdoors you could volunteer in an animal sanctuary for example - you would meet plenty of women there! Especially a cat or dog place.

Also join a rambling club / walking group - yes they can attract much older people but it's a good way to practice being friendly and older people often have younger single relatives they like to try & set up!

Another 'outdoors' hobby that attracts men & women of all ages is photography - try the local FE college.

In order to 'get in the loop' of modern life I recommend joining Facebook on your smartphone, you don't need to make tons of 'friends' but you could try 'liking' pages that take your interest such as newspapers (the guardian, independent are good), also itv & bbc, buzzfeed (to get knowledge on pop culture) etc etc.

Go to your local pub & coffee shop at regular times - get chatting to the staff and try to just say 'hello' and smile at any regulars - women OR men.

It sounds as though you are stuck in the 'comfort zone' - try stepping outside it! My friend is stuck in her 'comfort zone' and calls off Saturday nights out in town with me for meals with her parents (who she could see during the week...) don't be like that or you will get to old age and regret it!

Vienna, get into popular culture. Is there a reason you don't? Do you look down on it?

I used to. Imagine, the mindless masses with their reality television. Pah!

But then I got over it. Suddenly I had a million more things to talk about and share and know and do and say. Same with hobbies and interests, do stuff outside your comfort zone and enrich and enliven your existence.

Why, if you're looking to get into a proper relationship it's going to mean a world of compromises in the things you like and do, anyway. So get an early start!

Then we can talk about the new series of Masterchef. :)

There's some great TV - there's a shocking amount of shite too, but you can just avoid that. I'm your age, OP - I can't imagine not enjoying good TV, films and music.

Don't join FB, it'll depress you. But definitely step ouutside your comfort zone.

Second the Masterchef recommendation! Get into cooking.... there's just so much out there to be 'into'. Do it gradually, one step at a time. You'll find you have so much more to talk about.

Vienna Chandler. I don't even own a computer. This smart phone is as close as I get. Internet access at the office is limited and the local library computers block dating sites.

Do you have to be so helpless? A smartphone is a type of computer. It clearly doesn't prevent you being on mumsnet, which is of course modern, popular culture. I can't see why you wouldn't be able to get onto an internet dating site, if you really put your mind to it. Its hardly an unachievable goal for an employed adult who is clearly computer literate.

But in your case, I'd advocate staying away from the computer and branching out into contacting others through clubs and associations. But I'm sure that, at 44, this has already been suggested to you many times.

Can I ask you whether you actually prefer moaning about things which are perfectly easily overcome, or doing things?

(I'm not the sympathetic type, but maybe the OP would have benefitted if more people in his life had pointed out some home truths to him?)

^just a couple of suggestions, you understand! Not a definitive list! The outdoor suggestions are good too.

OP, you've listed many things you don't like, so what do you enjoy in terms of hobbies or interests? Do you even watch the news or read a paper? You are clearly shy so concentrate on others in conversation. I second the volunteering. You don't just need a sex life but a social life full stop.

Out of interest do you live independently or with parents?