just need to get this out (toxic mum) long

[sliceofsoup]

I usually keep my parents at arms length. We all go through the motions, family parties, weekly phone calls etc. But I don't involve them in my life as much as I used to, in fact hardly at all. All this has been the only way for me to cope with my DMs toxic behaviour and my fathers enabling of her.

But this has now crept up on me. I think I must have let my guard down a bit because it all seemed to be going OK.

I have been receiving the silent treatment from DM for the last two weeks. The reason why is too complicated to post here, but I basically asserted my role as DD1s mother in as gentle and as polite a way as possible. DM of course didn't like this, as she is Mother in Chief and how dare I go against her. So as I say, silent treatment.

They were invited round to ours a few days ago for DD1s birthday. PIL were also here. The first thing was that I had bought DD1 some new clothes for her birthday. DM had also bought clothes. When DD1 didn't immediately change into the new clothes from DM she made faces and huffed and puffed and flung the clothes at me. There was an atmosphere. This will all probably seem petty written down, but after years of the egg shells the atmospheres she creates make me feel physically sick. I am not allowed to buy my own child clothes. Or spend time with her if DM decides she wants her. I do not parent her right. Everything Dd1 does wrong is my fault, everything she does right happens organically, nothing to do with me.

She ignored me over dinner, or gave clipped one word answers. Her and DF both talked about how upset they were at the fact my brother has broke up with his girlfriend.

My brother is 26, working full time and still lives at home. He didn't bother to even send his niece (DD1) a birthday card, or reply to my message inviting him round. He is rude, selfish, owes them a lot of money, and treats them like crap. They let him away with it all. Of course they are upset he has broke up with her, she was a lovely person and was the only good thing in his life. Now hes off drinking all his money and they worry every time he doesn't come home.

I make them cakes and give presents at every birthday etc, he does nothing, yet all they can say at my dinner table relates to him and his life, all the while glossing over what an arsehole he is. If I ever dared "forget" a birthday I would immediately be pulled up on it. I have been pulled up for much less. This has been going on all my life.

She has even rearranged history in her head. Everything was my fault. When DB kicked one of our friends in the face, I was punished. Now she remembers it as I kicked the person in the face.

Anyway. The thing that hurts so much is that everyone (DH, PILS, my friends) can all see straight through her "public face" and they tell me as much. But I can't believe in my heart that it is her with the problem. I have been conditioned by her for so long that I am always trying to see what I did wrong or why its my fault. Logically I know the truth which is why I am able to write this all down, but I don't believe it inside.

I don't ever remember liking her. She was to be feared. But it was all emotional. Guilt trips and walking on eggshells. I have tried to go NC and I just couldn't keep it up. Now that's another stick to beat me with.

Sorry. This is really long. I don't even know what I want from writing this, I just needed to get it out. Thank you for reading.

I get the anger. I went through that. How dare she treat me that way! I think it is a part of the grieving process. The unfairness of it all. Why not me? Why does everyone else get the love and support I so desperately crave and I don't? How can she treat her own daughter with such hatred? All valid questions and and all worth the anger.
But there came a time where I got tired of those emotions. And I was so exhausted holding onto the anger that I moved on. I hope you follow that path.

If you are not ready to stop contact with you dd and you m. Then I would change it so that they are never alone together. either your dh or you are there monitoring what is being said.

If they are alone, you will never know what is being said. What secrets are being formed and what lies she is telling your daughter.

I think you need to go to a counsellor who will not advocacy families stay together no matter what. Choose one who will work on you and the impact she has had.

And hopefully they will help tighten those boundaries more and more.

I came on here to talk about my own mother - oh honey I hear you. It was a very unkind thing for you to have a mother like yours. You deserved a better mother growing up, and you deserve a better one now.

I absolutely second the idea of psychotherapy, especially focusing on your inner child. It has saved my sanity and I now value myself in a way I've never done before. My mother is also giving me the silent treatment at the moment, but I feel strong and am just not calling her back daily until she forgave me like I would have done before - I've finally had enough! But it's taken 5 years of meditation, psychotherapy, reading loads of books (esp Homecoming, Drama of the gifted child) and nurturing myself to actually feel able to do just that small thing.

You are just as real, just as important, and just as worthwhile as she is. She has worked hard at stopping you believing that - but you are

Cross post.

Maybe do some internet searches and not go through the gp.

I haven't lived in England for a couple of years but I am sure someone will come along that will help with strategies of finding counselling.

When I went and just told him (never met) i was over welhmed with work and I just wanted to cry all the time and I didn't know why.

He referred me through the NHS but also gave me details of other counselling services. I went through those.

OP, would yoube able to see a private therapist? The cost would usually be about 50 per 50 minute session. If you can, then you can bypass the GP and make your own arrangements. Either Google psychotherapists/counsellors in your area, or go via the BACP website.

If you do need to go via NHS, I understand your fears but you may be pleasantly surprised. I was very anxious about seeing a GP to request anti depressants a couple of years ago. The GP turned out to be lovely, spent lots of time with me, asked useful questions and didnt' make me feel like I was wasting his time at all. You have a right to seek referral and support.

Re NC, its a very personal decision and you need to decide if and when in your own time. Personally, I'm very low contact as NC just feels like a step too far right now. You say you keep them at arm's length - it may be worth thinking about how to detach just a little bit more, then a little bit more. See what feels right for you.

I've got a toxic mum.

It hurts a lot. I had a lot of therapy, and I understand everything that happened, I understand the reasons but it doesn't stop the effects, iykwim.

I think an awful lot about how my life would have been different if I'd had a better start.

I won't go NC because my parents are elderly now, mum has mellowed a lot and my children adore their grandparents. Materially, I have a lot to thank them for too.

But we don't have the relationship we could have, and I'm not the person I should be, and for that I will never, ever forgive her. I've tried, and I simply can't do it.

We could stretch to private if we had to, but it is a large chunk out of our budget.

When DD2 was admitted to hospital with chicken pox, she had no spots, and the docs originally thought it might be an upper respiratory bacterial infection. DM told me it was my fault because my house wasn't clean enough. My house is clean, just of course, not to her OCD standards. That came into my head last night. I told DH. Its a year since that happened and I have never told him what she said. He is still furious today, that she could blame me while we sat with our sick child watching her get poked and prodded, worrying about her.

I think that in the last while I have reached a point where I can admit I do need professional help. I had told myself for so long I have enough self awareness and insight to help myself. But I am drowning in this now. I can correlate my lack of career directly to this. I have one year left before our youngest goes to school. One year and then I will have to get a job. It terrifies me. I was an intelligent person and I didn't make the most of myself. Something I will always regret. I self sabotage too.

This sounds like me. I went to the GP after a particularly bad argument with my mother and got ADs. Fortunately, the practice counsellor had a cancellation and I saw her the next day. She said I wasn't depressed and told me to read Dance of Anger. TBH, she wasn't much use after that, and the book was interesting - in fact with each chapter I though I had the answer to all my problems! Then I didn't - probably some post trauma euphoric state or something . I eventually (via other books) went on to read Raj Persaud's Staying Sane (he has since been struck off!). It was a brick of a book, which you can only make sense of with a highlighter pen. But it shows you how to think logically and protect yourself. It was a turning point for me. Hopefully, a decent therapist should be able to do this.

Unfortunately, my career has never taken off , but I am a lot happier with my lot.

Sounds like the silent treatment is a win. She is giving you the beginnings of NC. She will blame you, of course, but so what? Everyone that matters to you knows better.

Your children are now being dragged into this. She has no write to demand your daughter change clothes or otherwise squeeze herself into the script of the day that exists in your mother's head. A script that is impossible to perform, as you know, because it is under constant revision, and if the actor makes a mistake, she blames them. Can you dig up the strength to protect them from her?

I have no advice about how to get therapy, as I don't understand the UK system. Can you start by attempting to make an appointment, even if it is scheduled weeks from now, with your preferred GP? Then write down your situation, so you wont be nervous or sidetracked, and let them read it.

You say PIL are not fooled by her. Is MIL someone you can turn to?

Some therapists are a bit cheaper OP - I pay 40 a session. There are some reduced rate services available, where you pay on a sliding scale based on your household income, so it might be worth researching a bit in your area.

Your DH's reaction is a normal reaction from any person who cares for you, is sensitive, has empathy and would not want you to be hurt. Its so hard to accept the fact that your own mother, the one person who should be on your side no matter what, goes out of her way to make you feel bad about yourself. Its horrid

You'd probably get bugger all on the NHS anyway, at most a short course of CBT, which doesn't sound like it would be the right fit for where you are now.

I too think this is something you really need to do. The support on this board is amazing, but proper work with the right counsellor or psychotherapist is on a different level, and it sounds like that's what you need now.

Of course it's a financial stretch to pay for it yourself. But this is important. It's your future and your family's future too. You are still very enmeshed with your M from the sounds of it, and you can't see the danger in exposing your DD to the same toxic influence that has done you so much harm.

Please don't feel guilty about your DD missing out if she stops going overnights to your M. Your M doesn't actually love her, any more than she loves you - if she loved her, she wouldn't have created an atmosphere at her birthday do just because you didn't treat her like the Queen of fucking
Sheba. Why would you entrust the care of your precious DD to someone who is too selfish and too messed up to put her needs first?

This is all stuff that's not clear to you atm, and that's exactly why you need some deeper support with it all, to help you start to see what's what and to know your own mind clearly.

(Sorry, mixed up DayLillie's issue re the locum with you. Ignore)

How old is your DD?

because if she is any older than 10, I think you need to sit her down and have a chat. Explain how much your mother hurts you, how upset you feel, how down it makes you. Be honest. And say that the family is not going to see her for a little while, until she sorts out her behaviour. Your dd doesn't need to know that In all likelihood, she never will sort out her behaviour.

DD1 was oblivious to the atmosphere. Really she was. Its so subtle. Right now DD1 is completely fine. Thats not to say that she will stay that way, but for now she is ok.

I feel like I can't win though. I don't stop their contact and my DM turns on her, or I do stop their contact and DD resents me and it damages our relationship.

MIL is generally nice but she has faults too. The dynamic in DHs family is the same. He is scapegoat to his golden child sister. FIL reins her in though, where my dad does not.

Shes only 6.

10 was the age we went NC with DGM. I am not sure there is a good age.

Ou say your DH sees through her public face, and that he is furious about how he treats you. But does he actually do anything? If was my DH, he wouldn't just be furious, he would confront her and basically take it out of my hands and say that if she ever spoke to you like that again, he would ask her to leave immediately. People like this need to be confronted, and I understand why so difficult for you, but not difficult for your DH.

Ah 6, that's tough.

If it were me, I would stop the overnights. Just pull them. I would ensure that every month I would replace with a supper treat for my dd, a trip to the cinema, a sleep over in my bed, a meal out in any restaurant she wants. And acknowledge that it is because you know she may feel a little bit sad about not staying at grannies any more. She'll get over it, but you have to fill the void.

I have told him explicitly not to. It would get us nowhere and I would have to listen to how I have chosen an awful man who was so terrible to her.

I am actually shocked that anyone could take that angle on this. This is my mother and me. Thats not DHs battle to fight. He listens to me and reassures me and is there for me and that is all that he should do.

What if she doesn't turn on DD1? What if she tries to turn her against you?

The teen years can be tricky enough to navigate without someone actively working against you and telling your child they could do everything they like if they come to live with grandma.

I know it sounds outlandish, but I've seen it happen.

I guess it is how you view marriage. We don't see it as "my" battles and "his". We are in it together. Someone treats me as your mother is treating you, and I was struggling to confront the issue because if being so worn down by it all, then my DH would unquestionably confront her. You seem very against the very notion, so obviously wouldn't work for you.

There is also an element of fragility to her. I mean, why people don't confront her. She did have a difficult start. She was bullied by her older brother, physically as well as emotionally. Her father was a harsh man with very stubborn ways. Its like shes constantly teetering on the edge. She is very highly strung.

I feel sorry for her and dislike her in the same amount.

ANd if anyone said to me that I was married to an awful man who is terrible to me, would be frog marched to my front door.

By me that is!

Your shock is very telling. It shows just how alien the idea of protection is to you.

No one ever protected you from her so you think it has to stay that way.

Your DH is married to you and therefore your battles are his battles. That's being a team, a partnership.

And you would only "have to listen" to her if you allow her that space/role in your life. She's not God.

I would say that she embraces that image, of the slightly fragile woman. Because it stops people pulling her up on her behaviour.

I'm sorry for all of you with toxic mums
Slice - as pp have said, try psychotherapy as it will essentially focus on childhood right through to present and future.
I"m sorry I can't offer more advice as I haven't been in your situation, however, I have a good friend with a toxic mum and she has just reinstated contact after 4 years of NC.