Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My sister wrote a letter about me to the guardian.....

338 replies

FergusSingsTheBlues · 25/01/2015 08:10

It got published. It was full of wild accusations and assumptions and was really unfair.

I only just found out.

She's pretty much permanently depressed so I cant really go mad, but I'm so hurt I really don't want much to do with her. I'm had a go at her yesterday, shouted at her for the first time ever, then ended up consoling her over a cup of tea. I always suck up this sort of thing. And we've always been really close....I thought.

To make things worse, she told my best friend who couldn't face telling me so it's double humiliation. For some reason that's made me much more upset.

I'm mortified because anybody who knows me will have read it as all my friends read the guardian....

What do I do now?

OP posts:
cottageinthecountry · 25/01/2015 23:17

So she is regularly suicidal and is unlikely to live very long? I really hope she's not on Mumsnet.

You need to support her with every ounce of energy you have. You need to work WITH her and you both really need to tell your narcissistic mother where to get off.

Your sister deserves to live as long and fulfilled a life as you.

cottageinthecountry · 25/01/2015 23:40

OP I don't think you are taking her seriously enough. It might be that you have been conditioned to dismiss her needs like your mother did. You really need to stop and think about how you are making these statements - these very very serious problems seem to be simply blurted as though they are no more significant than anything else. Perhaps it's hard to look the issues in the eye directly and you're so used to living in survival mode you are just used to ignoring the bad and moving on with your life. Perhaps you are just worn out by being the one constantly picking up the pieces.

As I said upthread (there were some very good posts by others there I hope you read them) family therapy is about the only thing I can think of that will help. And if she doesn't go, you should go anyway and give yourself time to look at this in perspective.

marfisa · 26/01/2015 01:14

Hi OP, I'm very sorry you're suffering. Reading your posts and also those by LadyJinglyJones and Attila has been quite cathartic for me. I'm another 'golden child' with a scapegoat sister. Needless to say, being golden child was a nightmare in its own way (suffocated by overbearing mother, ultra-responsible, obsessed by thinking it was my job to fix all the family problems). But my sister suffered much more than I did and was much more psychologically damaged. I know that and I will always feel guilty about that (even though the damage happened when we were both kids).

I also married, settled in another country and lost my 'golden' status. This was great from the point of view of my sanity but hard for my sister as I think she was always the one who wanted most to get away from my parents. And then, ironically, she was the one who stayed geographically close to my parents, and put up with the tension and stress of seeing them, while I 'escaped' so to speak.

As a result of the childhood damage, our adult relationship as sisters was badly dysfunctional. We loved each other but she was extremely defensive and I was always terrified of putting a foot wrong and upsetting her. Our conversations were very one-sided as they consisted mostly of me trying to reassure her/make her feel better about various problems she was facing. She never really showed any interest in my life at all.

Finally I did put a foot wrong (the story is too messy to go into here) and as a result she cut me off completely. I was devastated and made every attempt I could to repair the relationship. It didn't work. She just didn't want to have anything to do with me any longer. It's probably a dreadful admission to make, but in some ways my life is so much easier now that I don't have to deal with the burden of my sister's fury and grief and pain. I spent so many years trying to make her feel better, and I couldn't. I just couldn't.

I can easily imagine her writing the kind of letter about me that you describe your sister writing, and it would be a doozy.

Anyway, I don't have any answers, just sympathy. I know what it's like to have a strong sense that your sister has treated you unfairly, and to have an equally strong sense that she's behaving like this because she is genuinely in a bad way herself.

I have a couple of thoughts though: first, she does still love you and want to be in contact with you. That means something - it means a lot. But, second, you're never going to be able to "fix" her, because that's something no one else can do for her but herself. So I think if I were you, I wouldn't be "helping" her by going through her list of woes and helping her categorise them. That's still implying that you're the "stable" one and she's the unstable one. That dynamic is a bad dynamic because it's the one your parents originally put the two of you in. Acknowledge the pain she's inflicted on you, establish as much distance as you need. Otherwise you'll resent her even more than you do now. Because ultimately, what she makes of her life is up to her, not up to you. Your life is yours and her life is hers.

I do know it's bonkers of me to try to give advice at all though, as I said, since my own relationship with scapegoat sister is now non-existent. Sad

By the way, I also found the nephew letter in about ten seconds, and it does fit the scenario you've described, and the writer of it does sound mentally unwell. It's worth bearing in mind how easy stuff is to find nowadays on the internet.

Good luck to you though. Flowers

marfisa · 26/01/2015 01:24

Also, sorry to have made such a long post! Blush

The short version of what I was trying to say is basically, don't completely repress your own feelings and be an inauthentic version of yourself in order to preserve your relationship with your sister at all costs. Because I tried that and it didn't work - the relationship crumbled anyway. If your relationship has any hope of working, you both have to be honest with each other. She wasn't honest with you about her feelings -- instead, she took the manipulative and indirect route of writing a newspaper piece which she hoped you would notice on your own (?!?).

FergusSingsTheBlues · 26/01/2015 07:00

Cottage. I do take her seriously, I've been supporting her emotionally for absolutely Years. I didn't know about the other attempts ( but have to assume they're true) as she never told me until the last od in 2011, so I had no clue although Shes always been depressed. We've been having these conversations for years.

I have driven with her to counsellors, gps etc and Shes still refused to go. Short of getting her sectioned I cant actually force her to accept help. and YES, I've tackled my mother, of course I have. The last time being two weeks ago.

At some time she's responsible for herself, you know.

OP posts:
diddl · 26/01/2015 07:05

cottage I think that that is terribly unfair tbh.

I think that OP should offer as much support as she feels able to.

If that isn't enough then that isn't her fault, especially if her sister really needs professional help, but won't seek it.

Strippyquilt · 26/01/2015 07:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DeckSwabber · 26/01/2015 07:55

I also think its ok to look after yourself and put some boundaries in place. What she did was pretty awful, and now sh'e sorry. What's done is done. But you don't have to go back to where you were.

If she still wants you to be there for her it needs to be on terms which are ok for you, too. There is no need for you to be punished for your parents behaviour (or to punish each other).

FergusSingsTheBlues · 26/01/2015 08:02

Marisa, thanks for your reply, it's really difficult to acknowledge both sets of feelings given that I have every right to be upset but have to tone it dowwwwn because I cant afford to let her see how upset I am. However, I should really be using this situation where she's wronged me and feels awful etc to insist that she goes and gets help. I'll be going around to see her later to insist she takes some responsibility for her feelings and goes to get professional help. It's not fair to lay it constantly on me, it's a huge pressure as I'm not trained, and the other person who is highly supportive is my dad. We have three brothers as well, none of them are particularly helpful. So at the moment it's just me.

strippyquilt.....this would be my mums attitude too, I can see where you're coming for but some people are less able to deal with these issues. She needs shoring up professionally.

OP posts:
Floppityflop · 26/01/2015 08:08

Ask the Guardian to take down the online version to protect your privacy.

FergusSingsTheBlues · 26/01/2015 08:20

Ive already asked her to take it down: her reply was to fuck off out of her life as I'd promised id never mention it again. So, it's all about her feelings: I'm not entitled to any. I replied and told her I wanted her to go and get professional help as I cant stand to see her so chronically unhappy. She'll probably ignore it. Oh well.

OP posts:
LadyJinglyJones · 26/01/2015 08:37

Fergus you are right, it's not all your responsibility and you don't have to spend your life propping someone up simply because they need propping up and you happen to be handy. It's not healthy for you and as you have seen, you don't get anything back and it becomes like pouring empathy and support into a bottomless pit.

Of course that is awful for the other person, of course they deserve every sympathy, but I think it's important to have your line in the sand about how much energy and time you will put in.

I don't think you can "insist she gets support" - well you can, but you can't make it happen. All you can do is withdraw your excessive support, gradually and to a point that is reasonable and works for you. You can reduce contact and be too busy for x y or z, or if and when you do see her, say things like "I'm sorry you feel that way but I don't feel equipped to help you with that" and change the subject sometimes, instead of getting sucked into being the support system whose support is never quite enough. Ideally you'll put her in a position where it's easier to get help from someone appropriate. If you tell her to do it, in a way you're staying in the "parent" role.

Hairtodaygonetomorrow · 26/01/2015 09:20

FergusSingsTheBlues I have noticed it is often sisters and mothers that are berated for not solving the emotional problems or providing endless support for siblings, people rarely expect brothers to do this.

You are not responsible at all for your sister's happiness. Sorry, you are not. Its not even in your power, it's within her own.

Making yourself unhappy, dragging yourself down, endlessly trying to help, feeling guilty you were (once) the golden child- none of it has helped, has it? She's not happier, she's not less depressed. The answer does not lie with you, beyond one last push to get her to see someone.

I would then step back enormously from her life and stop being her support and her whipping boy as well. Tragic though her life may be for many reasons, there's no reason for her to take down you at the same time.

I am astounded at some of the replies on this thread, it is just not your responsibility to make your sister happy, or prevent her committing suicide or be her punch-bag in the public media for all time!

springydaffs · 26/01/2015 09:28

Whatever you do isn't going to hit the mark. If you protect yourself, that'll be wrong; if you support her, it won't be enough. I suspect she will go on to self-destruct in various ways Sad

And I say that as a scapegoat with endless problems as a result. The difference is I have done/doing the work (it's a lifetime task..) by getting into therapy. I am the only one to do that in my teemingly dysfunctional family, simply because I've been in the most pain - tis the lot of a scapegoat - but it is a family problem and the others are not prepared to, not in enough pain to, do it too.

I agree with cottage that you're not taking her seriously enough - again, par for the course when a scapegoat is firmly in place; the others don't take the endless stream of the scapegoat's problems seriously because they don't own that the scapegoat is a physical manifestation, if you like, of the poison in the family. If she got into therapy she would know that - on a crucial level she has imbibed, identifies with, the poison, thinks it belongs to her, is rightfully hers (unconsciously, probably); which is no wonder as she's had it pumped into her from the year dot. One can't underestimate the decimation.

Brilliant post/s, marfisa.

HarveyTwoFaceDent · 26/01/2015 09:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Moniker1 · 26/01/2015 09:42

Right at the start you listed things your DSis can change, but doesn't, and things that she can't change, in the can't list you put your DM.

But the DM is the crux of all this and surely she can work on her relationship with her DM (indirectly via counselling). Obviously she cannot change her DM but perhaps you and she can go for counselling together to discuss her feelings, your feelings, things she understood from childhood, and your version (assuming she will refuse to go on her own).

V difficult I am sure but I would want to give it a try. Perhaps tell her it is to improve your relationship with her. And hopefully if you had a good counselor some of her sadness at not being loved by her DM can be come to terms with.

Perhaps you can say you will forgive the letter if she agrees to come with you to counselling.

Why does your son make it impossible to break with DSis. Small DCs naturally don't understand the complications of relationship. Has someone said something to him to make him feel that you mustn't hurt DSis.
If he is an adult he is entitled to make or break the relationship with her and should not influence you. What age is he?

The thing about relatives, unlike friends and neighbours is that they don't go away, she will always be your sis. So worth trying to mend things.

However, someone unfixable can drag others down with them, I wouldn't want this for my family.

Moniker1 · 26/01/2015 09:50

Hadn't read all of the last page when I wrote the above. There is some v good advice from others with more experience than me.

Haffdonga · 26/01/2015 09:55

I remember the letter (vaguely) and I remember thinking at the time that there was sure to be a very different side to the story from the sister's point of view. (And that the writer sounded quite trapped by her bitterness).

In terms of it making you identifiable - yes, it might have done but only to those who know your intimate family circumstances already. It would not have given enough info for a member of the public to work out who you are. You can't sue a paper for this. (e.g. The paper can say A woman in Bristol has won the lottery . it can't say Hilda Smith of 3 Park View has won the lottery . But still Hilda's friends and neighbours might work out it's Hilda as she's just bought a Lamborghini. Actually, I think it's far more likely that your sister showed the letter to some of her friends as a bit of a cry for help.

As PP have also said, she wrote that and it's now on the internet forever. And you're writing this and it's now on the internet for ever. So you're quits. And are you sure you haven't given more identifying details (and deeply private ones) than your sister did in the first place?

Why not write her an answer letter? Or show her this thread?

Then let it go.

Hairtodaygonetomorrow · 26/01/2015 09:59

If he is an adult he is entitled to make or break the relationship with her and should not influence you. What age is he?

I don't understand though, why is it ok for the nephew to walk away and decide whether to have a relationship but not the OP? She's an adult too.

Sorry, but I think throwing endless energy into people who have severe mental health problems but haven't, by their thirties, found any way at all to progress/cope/take medication/ask for help/seek therapy is probably not a good way to spend your own life and absorb your own energy. You have sucked up a lot in relation to her, possibly as 'payback' in her own mind for your perceived advantages. I think enough's enough, the score is settled, and it's fine to live your life, offer the hand of sibling friendship if you can find it in yourself to forgive her this betrayal just as she needs to forgive you at some level.

I think it's odd that people are recommending you get more embroiled, it is possible to have toxic members of the family at all levels, and most toxic people have bad upbringings and difficulties- but usually you are advised to go no contact and decide what works for you and your family. Here the opposite advice is being given- put in more energy, have more therapy with her. I wouldn't be going into family therapy with someone with persistent MH problems prone to outlandish exaggeration and distortion myself because I would find it too upsetting to be constantly confronted with their weird version of events.

Being the sib of someone with ongoing persistent MH problems who won't seek help can be hard, you need to look after yourself too. It is different if this is a genuine turning point for her, and she starts seeing she needs help but my feeling is she won't, she's stuck blaming you. I would step out of the way myself.

I do think Haffdonga's point is a good one though, surely you are quits now in writing publicly available material which may be identifiable to those in your own circle. And if she read this, she may be equally upset.

Moniker1 · 26/01/2015 10:20

I've read many probs in papers and mags and don't remember a thing about who when, just processed the problem at the time and thought about, maybe, what I'd do in that instance.

Personally would never whinge to a newspaper about my probs. What did she hope to gain from it except make OP's life unpleasanter.

It's hard to break off contact with family, hence I suggested a last try, but def make a break if Dsis is unfixable.

shovetheholly · 26/01/2015 10:36

I am in a similar position to your sister. My sister is the golden child of the family, and my parents just can't do enough for her. I get almost no practical or emotional support at all. In my case, the feelings of hurt that this generates are exacerbated by the fact that my sister does exploit my parents a bit (lives at home despite having a job that pays ££ because she feels she 'deserves' more than a starter home - DP wait on her hand and foot). Additionally, my grandmother is very needy and quite exhausting to be around - so between those two relationships, my parents simply don't have any energy or emotional resources left for anyone else.

Also, perhaps because of age, my mother has started to find other people's emotions difficult to deal with and to diminish them. So regarding the death of my grandmother's partner a couple of years ago, she will say that they were 'only' together for two decades in their old age, so it isn't much of a loss. If I try to raise my inability to have children as a subject, I'm told that it's a good thing because I wouldn't be a brilliant mother and children are too much work for me etc. etc. etc.

I have had to learn to be completely independent and do absolutely everything for myself, and it has not been easy at times. If I am completely honest, the fact that I am now reasonable settled financially has also played a role in my being OK with it. When I was grafting and having to live in horrible places while my sister was comfortable at home, the contrast was quite start and ever-present. I love my family to bits and am now accepting of the situation, but it has taken me until my mid 30s to get here.

Obviously, this affects the advice I'm going to give you, which is: you cannot underestimate the impact that this has had on your sister, long term. I'm not for a second saying that it is your fault. You are clearly a nice person who is really trying to rectify decisions that were not of your making - but you are still a constant reminder to her of how she wasn't loved. The fact that you are settled in life and she is not may have a lot more to do with that than you realise - and will also be something she's constantly dealing with.

The fact that she's written this letter is a howl against her unfair universe. Of course she shouldn't have done it - but then again, she shouldn't be in the position she's in either. It seems to me that she's very deliberately taken a course of action that forces this out into the open. If you do want a relationship with her, you probably need to recognise her universe, not to ignore it or pretend that this is an equal relationship. One of the most powerful things you can do is to affirm that it is wrong and unfair that she's been dealt this hand. The relationship can only really go forward if you build up from that foundation, rather than pretending that you can somehow neutralise it.

In my 20s when I was hungry, poor and depressed I actually sat down and drafted a letter about my situation, with the vague idea of sending it to the Guardian. I didn't, thank goodness!! But I think I can understand why your sister wanted to do it. When you are the scapegoat who is always, always outside of everything and never good enough, it is like you disappear. Your position, your point of view, your very being in the world feel tenuous. It is like you could just dwindle away and no-one would really notice because you are never fully 'present' in the world when you are in it - you never 'count' for as much as other people. Not being able to have children could powerfully accentuate those feelings, because it is in many ways a very powerful and creative affirmation of self to bring a new being into the world and bring them up - and, once again, it seems that it is sadly shut to your sister. I am not surprised that your sister is suicidal, to be honest, because it is kind of the logical conclusion of this way of thinking that has been produced by very bad parenting. She must feel like not only your parents, but the universe thinks that she's not good enough. I would take her depressed behaviour in this regard extremely seriously indeed. I don't think self-harm in her case will be an empty gesture.

On the upside, this actually means that you have a powerful weapon in your arsenal, which is to recognise the legitimacy of your sister's position. When I think back, what I needed - desperately - was for someone to turn round and say to me 'You know, this really, really isn't fair'. Don't underestimate the potency of that, and be careful with it. When I finally decided to get therapy, just having someone recognise my situation was really powerful and cathartic - I actually went completely hysterical when my therapist said it. It was like being struck with emotional lightning, to the point that I couldn't breathe.

I realise that you will also have been the sufferer as the 'golden child', and that this is not the enviable place to be that it might seem from the outside. But I think there is a difference perhaps in the degree of harm that has been caused to each of you that is very significant and important, though painful, for you to recognise. I wouldn't say this to many posters, because there are a lot of people who are entirely self-absorbed and self-righteous in their victimhood, but you seem genuinely caring, to the point that you would be willing to accept an emotional burden yourself if you needed to. Think about it.

springydaffs · 26/01/2015 10:58

YOu talk, though, hairtoday, as though the scapegoat's problems have nothing to do with you/one. a scapegoat has EVERYTHING to do with the family. It's a family system, a device, in order for families to live in peace because the scapegoat carries all the shit. So to point at the scapegoat 'over there' is not accepting the family put her 'over there'. Which has everything to do with the family.

I've said before that scapegoats are a toxic family's colostomy bag. The family is used to, has built an entire identity, individually and collectively, around the family waste being funnelled off into the wide blue yonder. Except it's a person they've done it to, though the scapegoat is curiously seen by the family in a 2D way, not a real person: 'oh it's just so-and-so, going on again. What a pain she is. Can't she just get herself sorted out and stop pushing her shit off onto us. We're happy, why can't she be?'. The reality is they have pushed their shit off onto the scapegoat.

springydaffs · 26/01/2015 11:00

Scapegoating

diddl · 26/01/2015 11:11

let's not forget though that both OP & her sister have been badly let down by both of their parents.

OP was favoured by her mum & her father's answer to that was to deliberately scapegoat OP!

cottageinthecountry · 26/01/2015 11:30

shovetheholly Flowers

OP of course you have tried to help her and I'm sure she's also helped you but I don't think you see that she is not ABLE to help herself. All I can say is that her behaviour is fairly typical of the pattern of behaviour leading up to suicide. One day she'll say something odd that you don't quite understand why she's said it and the next day she won't be there any more. Unless you want that to become a reality you're just going to have to work a bit harder on her.

You must recognise that she has been a victim all her life and you are too in many ways, you are a victim because your mother has taken, or pushed, your sister away from you.

Swipe left for the next trending thread