Stag do worries

[RoseberryTopping]

So DP and I have decided to get married this year. His friends are getting excited planning his stag do but have really latched on to the fact I've said absolutely no stippers. They think this is hilarious and are intent on teasing me about it at every opportunity.
I've got a feeling that they're going to book one anyway. Now I've found out that another stag do that DP is going to with the same people will definitely have strippers there just because they can't have any at DPs. It's stressibg me out so much that I just want to call the whole thing off. Im so nervous about DP going to this other stag do now. He totally respects how I feel but I understand that it'll be hard to escape the room when they're going to be in a lodge somewhere a bit rural. That's if he even would try to, obviously I wojldnt know either way.

I don't even know what im hoping to achieve from this thread, I just wanted to talk about it.

Of course the OP has every right to have her own boundaries in her relationship. Being touched by a semi naked person could understandably for outside the boundaries of some. They shouldn't have to be converted to another view. That's their choice.

Thing is I wouldn't cancel his stag do even if he did want them. I know that I can't control another human being, I would just have to chose what my reaction would be. I feel pretty strongly that I couldn't go through with getting married if he thought that was an ok thing to do.

I know for a fact that if a woman who strips wants to go further or do extras then she will do. I'm not saying that I think DP would want that but the anxiety in me is saying what if. I don't know if anyone has ever struggled with anxious thoughts but they're pretty hard to ignore. Trying my best to be rational though.

I've been on many stags and I have never known a woman provide 'extras' for cash.

Some men don't even bother having stag nights.

Don't cry! I didn't want to make you cry!

The arousal thing.... I don't know. I worry anything I say will just come off like I'm trying to tell you 'oh it's fine just let him watch the stripper' which I don't want to do. On the one hand, not every man watching a stripper gets aroused. On another hand, can you imagine less sexy than a bunch of fully clothed men with erections sitting in a room together?

In my highly unscientific research, the most common thing out of decent mens mouths after watching a stripper is 'it made me wish my wife/gf was here' (not watching the stripper, just.. with them). Because you're real, and while they might be dumbasses sometimes, they're not dumb - they do want something real. A character (which a stripper is - she might be a real human, but she is acting, just as much as women on screens are), a body, might be titillating (or not), but in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't provide anything more than that, and titillation gets old pretty quickly.

I guess, the difference between a random woman and a paid one is (surprise!) the pay. A random woman is never going to come to your house and dance naked around your DH just because she wants to. The only time it does happen is when you pay for it. And I think it's hard to make your mind transfer from the 'normal' reasons why a woman would do that (ie if your DH was cheating, which would be awful) and the 'stripper' reason (she's getting paid). I think it's perfectly fine to say that you can't/don't want to make your brain shift this way, and I'm not even sure that it's healthy to try.

It seems like there are two things at play - your feelings about yourself and your feelings about the stripper. Your feelings about the stripper are totally fine, just be honest with yourself and your DH about them and ignore his stupid mates. But your feelings about yourself - that's what needs work! It's hard to know what to suggest, but you probably know a bit about the things that make you feel good about yourself. Or even things your DH could do - compliments are all very well but maybe there are other ways he could help. Don't be afraid to ask him.

As a side point, the people talking about how it's mostly about ridicule, I agree with them, that is how it usually works. But I actually hate that more than anything. You're talking about a bunch of men using a naked woman as a joke. To me, that's the worst way to treat it. Anyway. That's another topic.

I wasn't suggesting it was sleazy because the stripper might be eastern European ffs! Just that many of them are, something like 50% of sex workers in the UK are Eastern European and many of those are trafficked. And, being eastern European is not a 'race' it's a nationality

No, the joke is on the stag, not the stripper.

NiceCup - are you posting that on every thread on MN?

Of course this is ridiculously minor in comparison, but please, point me in the direction of a thread on MN where the OP's problems are worse than what's happening in Nigeria.

Just because someone's problem isn't the worst problem in the world doesn't mean they're not allowed to be upset!

How come when it's female strippers for a stag do, it's always seen as a helpless girl with "limited choices"?
What about the male strippers for hen dos?
Or because they're male they must know what they're doing?

Supernaut, I get your point entirely and personally am not at all interested in seeing a male stripper ever. But one of the differences is that men aren't routinely objectified in society. Fobbing off the use of strippers and strip clubs as "just a bit of fun" ignores the fact that it confirms widely supported views that it's ok to objectify women and treat them as some how lesser than men.

Hooty, I agree there is far more objectification of women in general.
Personally I wouldn't be interested in male or female strippers. I think it's a bit cheap.
I just think it's insulting to women to automatically assume they are doing it because they are too weak to not do it, whereas the men must have made their choice.

Supernaut you are quite right.

Eh, Eastern European a nationality? Heard it all now! What about Central Europeans, like Poles, Slovaks and Czechs? Well, and Austrians but sure as hell you didn't meant them!

OP - I've also had this conversation with my partner who is having his stag do soon. You aren't alone, you aren't a prude, you aren't abnormally distrusting. My reasoning is different to yours, but that's neither here nor there.

I did get worked up about this ages ago, and ended up with a huge ball of resentment festering, but after we talked about it, I felt so much calmer. Part of it is just knowing that you have given them your expectations. That's all you can do. The rest is up to him to show you the kind of person he is.

If my partner ended up going to a strip club with his friends, I would lose a shit ton of respect for him, and said so. It's not even fucking original. It's ridiculously expensive with table charges, and the drinks are £12 for 90% water. Likewise, if he gets offered a private dance by his mates, it's his decision whether or not to have it. That would cross from loss of respect territory to active disgust though. It was his choice if he said anything to his friends in advance, or chose not to, or whatever, but he is a grown man, and his behaviour is his responsibility.

He decided to say something privately to his friends. It's come up...three times since then, and never in a "hurrr hurrrr ALL THE STRIPPERS way". One guy said "I heard about the ground rules" and I simply said "Cool". A girl mentioned that the guys had been talking about "the ground rules" and I said "Yeah? They are good people, and I trust them not to deliberately cause an argument between us". That's it.

Really your problem here is his dickish mates. They are probably enjoying your cowed, panicked reactions. Why don't you give them a proverbial kick in the balls to take the wind out of their sails?

Next time they raise it, look them calmly in the eye and say:

"I have known you guys for years, and I trust you enough not to deliberately do something which would call the wedding into question"

or

"I know you are good friend's of my partner, and believe that you won't put him in any situations where he has to choose between losing face and losing my trust. That's not what friends do".

or

"Well if that's the extent of your originality when planning a stag do, then I pity you"

or

"If that really is the case, then I certainly hope that your hotel and travel tickets don't have any cancellation charges".

They are being pillocks. Show them by being calm and controlled, but reacting.

(For me, paying money to a woman for a sexual service (and being paid to get naked and dance around/on someone IS a sexual service) is foul. It's a pathetic power trip which treats women and women's bodies like chattel).

niceherbal

Really? You think you should have the word nice, in your username?

Your argument is illogical. How where they massacred? Gunshot? Stabbed? Shall I go and find an atrocity where they where raped 1st or tortured, then I can trump your argument. Someplace, somewhere there is always worse off.

Making someone feel even more shit than they already do, with nothing to add in a constructive manner makes you extremely unsupportive on a supportive website. So what is it you are doing here?

Ignore op.

I've been where you are. Self esteem on the floor, jealous, insecure, anxious with huge body hangups. It's awful.

I found MN helped, especially the feminism section. Also reading a huge amount on the sex industry. I don't feel anything other than sad for women who find themselves in the situation of having to stroke the ego/pacify/manipulate etc etc some sad losers who actually think they are the higher class of person for money, which on the whole, feeds the kids/pimp/ drug habit.

You are beautiful and special. Your fiancé chose you out of all the women out there. He is a fool if he doesn't thank his lucky stars that he is with you and the 2 beautiful children you carried and continue to nourish.

You need to believe that you are not just the body you are in. You are more than that.

DrinkFeckArseGirls (cool name btw!)

I know Eastern European isn't a nationality, I'm not an idiot! I waa saying it isn't a race. Obviously eastern Europe is made up of many different nations, the women of some of which are particularly vulnerable to trafficking into the sex industry. True fact.

'How were they' and 'where they were* '

I do know the difference, I just write faster than I think.

Yeah, Eastern European certainly isn't a "race" unless you subscribe to some rather questionable beliefs about nationality being associated to the colour of a person's skin.

I just think it's insulting to women to automatically assume they are doing it because they are too weak to not do it

I don't think anyone has suggested that at all. Somebody on a similar thread reported how the stag had his hand inside the stripper. I'm not sure there's the same parity with male strippers, are you?

People always use male strippers as the argument that strippers aren't an issue. I would argue that because of the inequalities/power structures in our society, that is not a good analogy.

A better one is... how would all these men feel if their intended, at her hen night, took all her clothes off and lap danced for a stranger? Not fantastic probably. Because someone getting naked for the titillation of someone else when one of those people is in a relationship isn't cool. Unless you both decide it is.

We have commodified women's bodies so much, haven't we?

I think that with those issues before the wedding there isn't that much hope for a successful relationship. You should find a new partner who is more attune with your own opinions.

That's the thing.

So often men will say that strippers are harmless, and just a "bit of fun" (how charming), and "in no way sexual" (my favourite most idiotic comment people raise) but if their partners turned around and said "you know, I think I am going to start being a stripper" all of a sudden it's not so harmless or funny any more. Why is it okay to pay someone to dance naked on you (No touching! It's harmless!), but not to be paid to dance naked on someone else?

Male strippers - look, I wouldn't have much respect for women who used male strippers either, as it's just plain weird, and again, objectifying a person. But you just can't argue that they are the same thing. How many adult men and boys are trafficked across the world for women's pleasure in seedy clubs? At what point in society have women ever, ever been in a dominant social position to men? How many clubs exist for the sole purpose of women finding men walk around in tiny thongs, and paying them to grind on them in some back room?

Likewise, when people say "male strippers" I think of sort of Chippendale where it's a bunch of men dancing on a proper stage with women in seats - no? That's not an equivalent. That's like a burlesque dancer with a clear divide between performer and audience.

How many men are abandoned by their partner after years of raising children and losing any meaningful work experience? How many single dad's get lumbered with 100% of childcare after their partner fucks off? The last two happen of course, but no means nearly as often as it does to women.

How often do we police men's sexuality compared to a woman's? If a man said "I'm a stripper" people would probably buy him a drink and ask for hilarious anecdotes. If a woman said "I'm a stripper" then she's treated like a pariah or a slut.