i'm 71, but the stress keeps on coming, advice please......

[tryingtogetusername]

I've endured decades of stress and worry re my 4 dc-2 boys 2 girls.
now in their 40's/50/s it still keeps coming.
last year ds...who is 51...returned from living in new Zealand, homeless and penniless, turned our lives upside down, then returned to nz, ...end of.

youngest dd turns up, "borrowing" money, turns my life upside down again, then disappears again.

next month, ds who is 48, says he is coming "home" as his work visa has expired , been working abroad for 2 years.
has no savings, nowhere to live, no job, no car, just expects me to pick up the pieces yet again.? just turn up at heathrow?

he was given/offered amazing opportunities in the past, college/uni, different course, and supported constantly.

yet he has made a total mess of his life, both working and personal.
he is a kind and thoughtful man, but is just like a feather in the wind, going which way the wind blows.
what do I do when he simply turns up ?

I have had a "difficult" life, battling for survival , yet managing to provide for the dc while they were young.

but, now I want/need some peace for myself.
am I being selfish?
my dh has endured the worry and anxieties of the last 3 decades, we just want to hide away in our little bubble, and leave them to it now.

help please.

springy I totally agree.

I have adult children (not as old as the OP's) and it would absolutely break my heart if I had to go NC with them for whatever reason. I would have to have tried every other angle before that and I am sure the OP probably has. However, she has also probably enabled this behaviour but we love our DC's unconditionally and selfishness like this creeps up and up slowly and we always give them another chance, we imagine that this time they won't be so entitled and mean but then it happens again... and she has posted on this and now knows that enough is enough. I am sure they are pretty clever at manipulating a situation to their advantage and I think there has been a straw that's broken the camel's back for the OP maybe and they have pushed her one step too far.

On a purely practical level, I've just had another thought ... didn't you say it was February when your son's due back?

If so, that might be even more reason to contact him now; it would give him a few weeks to sort something out and mean he couldn't accuse you of leaving him in the lurch at the last minute with nowhere else to go. I realise of course that you wouldn't be obliged to respond to that - but why create last minute angst when it can be fairly avoided??

It's a lose/lose situation. There's no coming away from it with a sense of release - the pain and the relief vie with one another.

My point is not that OP shouldn't cut her children loose (financially, but NC if necessary). It appears to be a necessity to significantly cut the financial ties. But if this means the relationship will be cut off as a result it is very painful to lose our children, whatever the circumstances. Posters appear to think OP's pain will be vanish if she does decide to cut them off ("what have you got to lose?"). The reality is that one part of the pain will significantly decrease, another part will significantly increase. That's just how it is. Because it's our children we're dealing with here, not just anyone on the street. OP's children have got huge mileage out of this: the pain of OP losing her children.

Is it worth the risk? No. But it has to be done. 'Risk' doesn't come into it, it's about protecting ourselves when we are being abused. When it is our children who are doing the abusing it is very painful all round. There's no getting away from that.

Trying, the likelihood is your children will kick off monumentally if you cut them off financially. Be prepared for that. They seem to have used the threat that they will cut you out of their lives if you don't tow the line - and they have form for that, they've done it to one another - and they may well carry that out. Brace yourself. Get into counselling, you on your own as a starting point at least. Sounds like there's a lot there to work on in therapy. Could take a few years but it's money well spent. Priceless.

whether they're 60 or 80, they are still our children and we love them entirely, even if we have to make the agonising decision to cut them out of our lives

Except I think it is quite different, because one wouldn't even contemplate cutting a small or teenage child out of one's life.

I know that while my dd was small, if anything had happened to her, even if it wasn't while she was under my care, I would have felt dreadfully responsible, for example. Whereas I would be broken-hearted if anything happened to her now, but not feel that same responsability.

You cannot allow their blackmail to continue, OP. Call their bluff.

It's not about responsibility though, is it. It's about our children, regardless the age.

I sometimes wonder what people can possibly mean when they say, when a child is hurt (or even killed - gruesome!), that the parent can say 'at least it wasn't my fault'. WTF??!! It's irrelevant whose fault it is, the fact is your child's been hurt/lost/whatever.

I admit I'm a bit worried that, even on here, a lot of responsibility is being put on OP for the kids' reactions (stop the featherbedding = lose your kids, etc) Forgive me if I've misunderstood and it wasn't meant that way, but to my mind all the responsibility for the reaction to a perfectly fair change is theirs

Call me naive - and obviously it's different with abusive parents - but are there really people about who'd cut off someone who'd done so very much for them, just because more demands weren't forthcoming? I mean really??

Sorry, but to me that would be bordering on downright evil ...

I may be ranting but I'm wondering if posters appreciate that the love we have for our children when they are at home doesn't diminish when they grow up. Posters seem to think that the loosening of 'love' they have for their own parents as they grow up is reciprocated. IT ISN'T.

Most cases, anyway.

are there really people about who'd cut off someone who'd done so very much for them, just because more demands weren't forthcoming? I mean really??

a resounding YES

There's plenty of it about to a greater or lesser degree. When did we fully realise what our parents have done for us? Even then, we still take it for granted.

Anyway, OP's situation is not straightforward. There are a lot of strands to what is presenting now. One of them is that OP's kids are ungrateful wretches, another is that OP has indulged them: both have some weight. There are more strands, it isn't straightforward.

Well yes, I take your point about perhaps taking things too much for granted, springy - it''s just that there seems a lot of mileage between that and the behaviour of these particular offspring. Believe me I've seen entitled attitudes among friends' kids which would make your jaw drop, but I've never seen anything quite like this

You're also right that these things are complicated and that there will be pain no matter what OP does, but it's hard to see how sticking with the status quo can be helpful for anyone

I often feel like you Trying. I am 60 this year with a large family - eldest in their thirties youngest still at school. Mine are all loving and good citizens with exceptional qualities etc but they do keep bloody coming back. I feel like I should be like the mother in Little Women but if they dont all get off and get their own lives sorted soon I think my heart will peg out. My pearls of wisdom re practically everything pretty much ignored. I had a tough early life too with mother dying very young etc and I think one does over compensate. I would never tolerate rudeness though and my only advice would be buy a much much smaller house and definitely get your husband on side. Being the recipient of people off loading is totally draining especially when they are your children. If you have created such a wonderfully welcoming home they will want to come back forever.

But the OP doesn't want to go NC, but has said before when she and her husband haven't done what the children want, the children have threaten NC to keep OP in line and giving them what they want.

So unless OP is prepared to give all her money to her children she should just carry on being treated like this.

Are there grandchildren involved, tryingtoget?

I don't think the OP wants them to leave. If you really really don't like something, you stop it.

my dh, my dear dh, has been with me every step of the way for the last 25 years.
my dc's father, was a total indifferent and selfish man, as far as I know he hasn't spoken to any of them for years, he is simply disinterested..simply upped and left...
.never even brought anyone, me included a birthday/Christmas card or present and that's the truth.

when I remarried, for a while things were good, as they saw how much he loved and respected me, even saying he was a better father than their own but then the in fighting and arguments began again.

jealousy from the eldest, resentment from one to the other.
toxic relationships, abortions, their new (penniless)partners thinking I was their cash cow.

even so long ago, I was wary of answering my phone, never knowing what threats or arguments I would be on the receiving end of.( I bought an answerphone and even a Dictaphone to screen the calls)

if 1 dc was in my home and the other one came, the first one would run out, refusing to stay while the other was there, all this when they were adults.

I was a spinning top in the middle of it all.

my dh was the only one there when I had a stroke-fully recovered - the 4 of them didn't even ask if I wanted a cup of tea.(they would be there almost daily as I ran my business from home.

that was why I sold up and took early retirement, hoping to ease the nightmare of it all.
but up to today it simply followed me.

not any more.
I don't want to go nc, but when they know there is no mileage by contacting me, it could be months/years or possibly never, that I will hear from them again.

I feel so deflated, I had such high hopes for them, but it wasn't meant to be I guess.

It is certainly not a question of you going NC, OP. Just changing how you behave.

I'm glad you've got a good supportive husband, as you deserve. You did what you thought was right for your children and, as adults, they haven't taken advantage of all the chances you gave them. You can have a clear conscience.

In the end we don't do things for our children for them to love us. But if they don't respect us...

The fact that they are a pack of wastrels many years after you finished with their 'formal' parenting is a reflection on them, not you. Usually you would expect to see one 'white sheep' in the pack, one who actually did try to lead a responsible life, but apparently not in this case. Any one of them could have got their shit together in the course of the last thirty years but they haven't done it.

I suppose one way to think about it is that they are not (mostly) that unhappy. They may cause you great unhappiness, understandably, but they seem relatively happy to drift through their lives. You gave them every chance but they had to want to take it.

If you stick to your guns, your third act could also be their second (since they are effectively still in childhood) - perhaps at least one of them will come good.

that's what I am hoping for, at least 1 or even 2 could rebuild their lives.

3 of them have nothing.no house/job/savings, but plenty of debts , money(£thousands ) borrowed from other people, friends of mine, with "promises to pay it back" and that was 4 years ago, but no mention of it at all..

and at the age they are, even if a move back to the uk happens, penniless and homeless, I can't see for the life of me how any of them can manage.

what a mess.
didn't need to happen.

Trying: I feel especially for you as I am the same age as you also with DCs in their 40s.

Both DCs had a major disaster each in their lives - not their fault at all - and we were relieved that we were in a position to help them in actually quite considerable ways.

The difference is that a) they did not expect it and b) were incredibly grateful. Both are incredibly supportive and would do anything for DH and me. Never a week goes by that they aren't in touch - are we OK, let's go out for a meal (the one who lives near), come and have a break with us for a few days (the one who lives away) etc.

So it is not inevitable that adult children who have been helped take stuff for granted or act as yours DCs have done.

Which is why I agree with posters on here. You must make it clear that while you love them the bank of mum and dad is now closed and you are going to live the rest of your lives the way you and DH want.

You do not deserve this and you do not need it.

Tough love is the name of the game OP.

You have to relieve yourself of this burden. You have a right to a happy, peaceful retirement. How you chose to communicate this to them is up to you but either tell them directly or through avoidance and a brisk 'oh dear, dear, that's not nice. Did I tell you about Mrs Scrimshaw's do down the road' and then just be boring. You've proably always been so capable and able to cope that they just don't realise that you get stressed and don't want to cope anymore. I think directly telling them at least gives them a chance to realise and assess the situation.

I can see where the problems lie. Unfortunately like most parents you care too much! And caring too much makes for deep emotional involvement and when that involvement is negative then you will absorb those negative emotions. Your DC are using this to remain in a childlike emotional state, relying on you and acting like bloody big children!

So maybe you can't just up sticks and pretend they no longer exist, but what you can do is continue with the good and enjoyable side of your life and when they pop up again needy and demanding, distance yourself. Not just physically by not running around after them and paying off their debts, but most importantly stepping back emotionally and not being tangled in their lives. For instance if one wanted to borrow money, arrange some kind of loan for them to repay. Look at finding solutions that they take responsibility for. Don't be sucked into their misery. Take a step back and look at them and their problems dispassionately. Keep that distance, you can still help in a practical way if it's what you want (advice, direction etc) but as though you were a professional and not involving yourself.

This emotional distance will stop you becoming depressed with them and their problems. Don't let them manipulate you. My husbands siblings (himself included) all did similar things to their mother so I know how hard it can be.

Sounds as if the return of one DC and new demands has brought a lot of things back for you OP.
As well as drawing strict boundaries with them, have you thought of finding a counsellor - even a short-term one to talk things over with as you detach? You don't have to be depressed, have MH issues but it could simply be a way of putting things to rest in your mind as far as the DCs go?
It can give you a useful sounding board, someone who understands family dynamics so that you have space to examine your thoughts as you ditch the guilt and become more assertive with the DCs

I wouldn't be arranging anything for them. They are in their 50's! Why should their Mum who is in her seventies be arranging loans for them? They've got brains and they are grown ups. I just feel for the OP so much, she sounds absolutely weary of it all.

I am so glad that you have a wonderful and supportive DH Trying and that this hasn't impacted on your marriage, he must be extremely patient and a man in a million. You must pull away from them for the sake of your sanity, your marriage, your health. Just relish your wonderful DH and let them fight it out amongst themselves. I can't believe they are in their 40's and 50's, they are honestly acting like teenagers.

Some people need to hit rock bottom before they start taking responsibility for their lives. As hard as it is, we have to let them. I haven't experienced that with my children, but I did with my brother. It was so hard to see him crash and burn, but he's rebuilt his life. And honestly, he is a much happier and pleasanter man for it. He's not prosperous and never will be, but he does have enough now to rent a small flat and feed himself.

You just turn to your lovely DH and let him support you and back you up as you deal with your children. You have an absolute right to happiness in your later years.

My mum is 81 and my siblings still scrounge of her. She gave a house to one of them. The other is still living at home at 48! my nephew and niece are always asking my parents for money too. I have to leave them to it as i think they is some dodgy dynamic going on and they just haven't grown up. i left home at 18 and have no idea why they are different bit it makes me sad.

My DM is in her 90s & my brother is still sponging off her, well he would if he could let's say. For some people, no matter how much you give them, it will never be enough.

One thing I will advise OP is that you tackle this now, it does get more difficult as you get older & emotional pressure is being applied.