i'm 71, but the stress keeps on coming, advice please......

[tryingtogetusername]

I've endured decades of stress and worry re my 4 dc-2 boys 2 girls.
now in their 40's/50/s it still keeps coming.
last year ds...who is 51...returned from living in new Zealand, homeless and penniless, turned our lives upside down, then returned to nz, ...end of.

youngest dd turns up, "borrowing" money, turns my life upside down again, then disappears again.

next month, ds who is 48, says he is coming "home" as his work visa has expired , been working abroad for 2 years.
has no savings, nowhere to live, no job, no car, just expects me to pick up the pieces yet again.? just turn up at heathrow?

he was given/offered amazing opportunities in the past, college/uni, different course, and supported constantly.

yet he has made a total mess of his life, both working and personal.
he is a kind and thoughtful man, but is just like a feather in the wind, going which way the wind blows.
what do I do when he simply turns up ?

I have had a "difficult" life, battling for survival , yet managing to provide for the dc while they were young.

but, now I want/need some peace for myself.
am I being selfish?
my dh has endured the worry and anxieties of the last 3 decades, we just want to hide away in our little bubble, and leave them to it now.

help please.

trying my heart goes out to you. I think reality has kicked in for you and you are probably thinking - what the hell have I done, I have brought up 4 selfish, mean individuals and yet all I wanted was the best for them, what did I do wrong...

If they are all as bad as each other, ignore my advice about getting one onside, I agree with a PP, that will show weakness and wouldn't work, given there isn't much to choose between them.

It's too late to change their personalities but maybe just maybe, one of them might have a think and a ponder when you take the hard line. I would have 4 sheets of paper and I would write down everything you have done financially and otherwise for each child so that you have it to hand, if only to reinforce to yourself how hard you have tried to set them on the right path.

I think you have to be prepared for firstly an almighty fallout, and secondly being cut off. But if you do it now, maybe in time, one or more of them might come to their senses and realise what you have done for them.

They are now bullying you and you have to stop this. Your DH and you can have a stress free time for a while, just tell them how it is and let them squabble amongst themselves until perhaps they see reality.

If it wasn't for the fact that parent /child relationships are so strong I would advise you to move house where no one knows you and do not leave a forwarding address, or move to Spain and leave no contacting address to your children! Basically disappear out of their lives. They don't sound particularly nice people and if they weren't your children you would have nothing to do with them.

Whether you could do this emotionally without feeling the inevitable guilt is the big question. It would be the best thing for you and your mental health.

yes, the reality has certainly hit me over the last couple of days.it's almost as though they have lived their lives with blinkers on, oblivious to actions and readctions.
since their young teens, they have had almighty bust ups with each other, one not talking to another for years, then going against the others.
I have even been told, if I speak to that one, I won't speak to you, and so it goes on.
I know most families have issues at some point, but this has been exploding at different times for decades.

at the moment, 2 are talking, 1 has gone off the radar, 1 is talking to another suddenly after years of nc, it's like being in a whirlpool with them.
I feel like I want to disappear , change my name and reinvent myself, to have peace in what time is left.

"I don't know, just don't understand how given the best start, they are all in a mess in their 40's/50's."

You can't blame yourself for their core personalities. You obviously made a successful career in business.... do you attribute that to your parents? Do you attribute your personality to your parents? I think a little too much is made of the influence of parenting on many aspects of life.

If you've made a mistake it's probably been in propping them up too much. This was presumably done with good intentions, it was important to you at the time and of course it was worthwhile. If they've chosen to squander their advantages and your love, that's been their decision.

I know another family of 3 DCs. Father a very successful businessman. The eldest DS, despite being offered many legs-up over the years, proudly refused all offers of help, working hard at his chosen career (engineering) and making a success of himself. He wanted to be independent. The younger DS was quite happy to have it all presented to him on a plate, is rather lazy, dropped out of college, quit various jobs and - now late forties with a family of his own - is still happy to fall back on Dad when it suits.

Worth considering.

Well... trying let them all get arsey with each other then - you can't mediate and you shouldn't be doing that. You will find it so peaceful to cut them off and stop being stuck in the muddle and as for "if you speak to X, I won't speak to you" they really need to grow up. It's pathetic. I and my siblings are all very different but we don't fall out like this, if any of them get on my tits, I just go quiet, regroup and come back refreshed.

This is a new year for you trying and let it be the year you stop enabling this shit behaviour and you find some peace and tranquility with your DH.

puzzledandpissedoff
i suppose you could see this as offloading ,
but it was advice or different perceptions from different perspectives I was looking for.
but through these replies, I can see, or it has been reinforced, that at my age, I need, am entitled to some peace in what time is left.

I have learned that the next time ds contacts me .....re arriving at the airport homeless and penniless...., I must simply ask him what arrangements he has made for himself.
this isn't the first time this has happened.

it's got to the point that when the phone rings, I immediately think "another sleepless night" worrying what will happen next.

i'm not depressed or unhappy, it's a lovely -winters- day today, meeting a friend for lunch later, tomorrow an afternoon playing cards with other friends.
it's just the heaviness of my dc's that hang heavy on my shoulders.

The heaviness on your shoulders is 'other people's problems'.... I'm glad you're not depressed or unhappy. Just keep telling yourself 'not my problem' until you believe it.

CorgitoErgosometimes, that's about it, none of them are remotely like me in any way,
I became an orphan at a young age, so no idea if I am like my parents at all.
maybe some time when I am "unavailable", not answering the phone/email etc, could shake them up, or at least provide a quieter life for me.

i'm not in the middle of their relationships anymore, as the last time I was told"if you speak to that one etc" I was quite clear that I wouldn't take sides.
how could it have all gone so wrong?

Life goes wrong occasionally. As in my illustration above, you can have the same parents, the same lifestyle, the same advantages and disadvantages and the same genetic code..... and the end result from one DC to the next can be chalk and cheese. Sadly, in your case you appear to have universal chalk... It's a PITA but everyone's life has challenges and some are just more acute than others.

You can only change yourself. You can't change others... even if you produced them in the first place.

Hope you enjoy your lunch and afternoon. Do the things that make you happy and be with people who give you joy and who appreciate you for yourself.
Maybe talking to some of your friends re the situation. I know from my one lovely, living older relative that there can be a bit of a competition re the success of the DCs or number of grandchildren you have or a bit of triumphant complaining about how much your DCs rely on you for childcare when DGCs come along. So if you don't have that you can feel a bit left out.
My lovely relative is absolutely pragmatic and her relationship with her DCs and our family is based on us liking each other as individuals and appreciating each other as friends.
It's the DCs immaturity that is making you wonder about how you brought them up.
Please write that letter, then take a look at your finances, your hopes and plans for this decade in your life and go for it. Send the letter before DS sets off on his plane so that he knows that Mum's B&B has closed its doors and that the bank of Mum has paid out all it can. Be the one to set the tone and style of your new relationship with your DCs
I imagine you have a lot of very admirable qualities and have great things to share with people who deserve your time and attention and care.
PS think of a charity you'd like to support. From what you say, I'd suggest even the Donkeys rest home are more deserving

how could it have all gone so wrong?

aww Trying, It's not over til it's over !

Write a letter along the lines of flapping's suggestion. Tell them all you love them and look forward so much to seeing them soon.

Make sure there is no more money for them and no house space either. Fill the spare room of your house with gym equipment/office equipment/lodger (and throw out all spare beds!)

Book a cruise for yourselves and send them happy postcards from around the world.

Invite them all, together, once a year to a slap up lunch or, even better, an evening at the theatre so there's not much opportunity for conversations/fallingout/requests for a loan. Any that can't/won't come, too bad.

Be happy and hard to get, and if they complain to each other...even better!

You might find they start to respect you a little more when they see you putting yourself first rather than them!

Go for it xxx

Trying,do put your foot down while you have your health,and some emotional strength. My DM is 20 years older than you,and frail. One of my sisters has moved her controlling husband and 2 children into my mother's home,whilst not helping her physically or financially. They have a home of their own abroad.
My mother doesn't like this arrangement,but is somewhat afraid of my sister's husband,so just tells the rest of us. Unless we took a legal route,which she won't agree to,this is the life she is stuck with.

thank you all for your words of wisdom.

yes, it's time for me to accept they can't/wont change,
but I can and will.

no more feeling guilty when they are in a mess again.
no more "helping" when it's their own adult actions.
time for me to enjoy the rest of my life.
maybe they will realise one day...maybe when it's too late... that I was on my own, simply doing my best for them.

i'm off now, pub lunch with a dear friend...in a not too different situation.
we have a laugh, a Bacardi and coke and feel like youngsters again. haha
thank you all.i have a good insight now into the complex family relation dynamics.

trying you sound wonderful and I wish you all the very best. Have a lovely lunch, sound off to your dear friend, put the world to rights and start afresh with your DC's.

Do not weaken! (DCs know what buttons to press and can be manipulative. Everyone's DCs, not just yours!)

I'm a bit startled that posters are asking op what she has to lose if they are out of her life. How about she loses her children .

That's not a small thing. There isn't a magic switch that turns off when they become adults. They are our children all the way. We love them just as much as when they were sweet and little.

So less of the 'what have you got to lose, you'd be better off without them' without recognising that this would be deeply, deeply painful for a mother. (Her children have exploited this, of course.)

But do it you must, trying. As painful as it is. My heart goes out to you to have to make this decision. I hope things turn out well for you and you don't lose them for ever.

I'm wondering what their father was like. Was he feckless, like this?

Why hasn't your husband supported you?

It looks like you've not have much respect for yourself, and your children are playing that back to you, quadruple. Your relationship with them also sounds to be stuck in an adolescence - eg baling them out, buying them courses (??), buying them plane tickets (??), a house for one of them (!). It is not surprising they treat you like a cash cow - you have been a cash cow throughout their lives.

YOu also say the son you bought the house for was moving people in without 'permission'. Permission sounds like an appropriate word for a child/teenager, not an adult. Was it his house, did you give it to him? If so, he can move in whomever he chooses. Or was it your house and you were watching over him to make sure he behaved? It looks like it was the latter - and you may have sound reasons for having to do that. But it all looks rather as though your children have never grown up, facing the hurdles and difficulties we all have to face in order to prove character - without them we can become flabby, helpless.

There may well be a developmental disorder in the mix somewhere but that doesn't excuse what is shockingly bad and dysfunctional behaviour. This is a biggie but I would suggest you organise family therapy to work out what has gone wrong here that this is the appalling end result. It would have to be therapy for a good long time, not weeks but months (and months) as there is a lot here to work through, I imagine. You get what you pay for in therapy so do make sure you secure someone who has the best track record.

Explain in no uncertain terms that you will not be helping in any way from now on. You are not being selfish. Time for tourself is long overdue.

If they won't attend therapy though you could insist it is a condition of any future support then attend therapy yourself. Your life is shouting at you that there are things that need addressing. yy you could run away but it will all stay a terrible mess behind you. xx

"I'm a bit startled that posters are asking op what she has to lose if they are out of her life. How about she loses her children "

They may be children (and the English language really needs to come up with a better word for adult offspring) but that's not the issue. We all accept that our children will grow up, leave home, make lives for themselves and if we're lucky still get on with each other well enough to be part of each other's lives. The people being described here are selfish, ungrateful, chancers that seem to bring little pleasure to their mother and any love is entirely conditional. In the same way that people can go 'NC' with toxic parents, sometimes it's necessary to operate the reverse. Not that the OP is intending to go 'NC'... they're just setting some boundaries.

OP, you might lose your children in the very short term but I doubt if it will be for good. Perhaps, due to your own tough childhood you have too freely of love, money and everything else. They haven't learned that your resources, like everyone else's are finite. It isn't too late for them to learn and even change a little. You have to change first, though.

I still endorse preempting your ds and contacting him to enquire after his plans and make it clear your home is not actually available to him. If this happens on the phone you may find it hard to find the words or end up relenting when the sob story and guilt trip are thrown your way. Miles easier to get in first.

You don't say much about your DH,maybe he isn't as upset by this behaviour. I am much more sad by missed birthdays etc than my DH. ( different scale, I know). Get him on board so nobody tries to divide and conquer.

I wish you strength. Everyone here agrees it's time to stop this cycle of neediness, dependence and blackmail. Offer your love, advice and ear to listen but no more cash, freeloading or living in.

Have a lovely afternoon and start prioritising yourself and DH. Happy times ahead.

... through these replies, I can see, or it has been reinforced, that at my age, I need, am entitled to some peace in what time is left

Yes, you most certainly DO deserve some peace, and it's wonderful that you're sounding a bit stronger and also planning nice times with friends - lots more of that needed!!

As others have said, you can do nothing about other peoples' choices, only your own. Nobody's suggesting you cruelly cast your children aside, only that you impose some essential and long-overdue boundaries. Obviously they won't like it after being endlessly mollycoddled, but that's their problem ... the alternative of martyring yourself for the rest of your days simply shouldn't be an option

Oh, and when you contact your returning son, for pity's sake don't get drawn into suggestions about his options, as he'll just find reasons why he can't do whatever-it-is. You''ll get a lot further by using "I can't help now" / "what are you going to do about it" ... and when he whines, "I'm sorry to hear that" then silence instead of providing a solution

yy we may need to go NC with our adult children. But it is extraordinarily painful. Unconditional love doesn't just turn off, it's there for life.

I wonder how many posting on here actually have adult children. It doesn't matter how old they are, they are still our children; and no, there doesn't need to be a different word for adult children, whether they're 60 or 80, they are still our children and we love them entirely, even if we have to make the agonising decision to cut them out of our lives. It stays agony, it doesn't go away - unlike eg a once dearly loved partner or spouse.

Of course it would be painful for the OP if her DCs decided never to speak to her just because she suggested they might like to run their own affairs and sweep up after themselves..... However, that's a risk, not a certainty. What is certain is that she's enduring a huge amount of pain now by being taken for granted and treated with ingratitude. She'll always love her DCs whatever the outcome so surely it's worth the risk of being ostracised?

Is your dh your dc's father? What is his stance ontheir attitude? There is a dd you haven'tmentioned, is there any chance she could be an ally? Do you have grandchildren, if so some of themcould be old enough to offer some support/perspective.
We all offer our dc unconditional love which isn'talways doing what they want. Just as it isn't right to say yes to chocolate and coke for breakfast every day, it isn't right to say yes to their unreasonable demands as adults. Of course you won't see them on the streets but I'd let them get a sniff of that coming close to encourage them to take responsibility for their own lives.
I'd aim for a family meeting, maybe a lunch where you tell them that the cash cow has been put out to grass and can any of them give you £100 to tide you over till pensionday!