MIL/DIL relationships - I despair at the norm.

[MoRaw]

I’ve only recently starting becoming more engaged with Mumsnet. Over time, what one of the things that have often piqued by curiosity is the mother-in-law/daughter-in-law relationship. Undoubtedly there are a lot of dysfunctional families out there and mothers who really should be kept at a distance. Consider that I am not talking about these types as they clearly cannot be the norm.

I am struck by what seems to be a norm – DIL feeling undermined by MIL and wanting DH to “go up against” his mother. Some of the things that lead people to feel undermined might be considered by many as minor and unimportant in the grand scheme of things. I appreciate what is minor/major to one person could be the opposite for another.

I am suspicious of any man who would treat his mother rudely or badly. I would never want to back my husband in a corner where he felt he had to choose between me and his mother (unless she was of those people who are dysfunctional or it was something major). I believe that if a man has a reasonably good relationship with his mother, getting him to take sides will cause him some distress and even though he may seem supportive on the outside, he might be struggling. Blood is thicker than water. Marriage is hard work as it is and throwing this sort of thing in the mix might be lead to problems brewing underneath the surface. The bond between mother and child can be incredibly strong. I think a man who battles with his mother for minor things because his wife expects him to/encourages him to do so is not a man I would trust (that’s me personally). I just feel that if a man can do this to his mother (a bond so strong), he can easily tread on the wife.

I know my parents care for me and for my husband. They would never willingly or maliciously seek to cause me harm. My husband mother is the same. I would not cause any tension between me and my parents on account of my husband’s expectations on how they should be or what they should be doing. I will not allow my husband to come between me and my parents and I would not come between my husband and his mother. If there is a problem that is really something worth sweating about, then I will speak to them otherwise, there are some things that as human beings we should live and let live.

Anyone else despairs at the negative MIL/DIL dynamics that appear to be the norm these days? Is this what our daughters and sons have to look forward to in the future?

Yes Poinsettia, I have. I hope I am allowed to or should I not have? Or is it that I can or should have only posted this OP when I could have provided evidence that I had?

Why do you assume that I think any of those things from my comment? You are rather passive aggressive in your posting here. You are quite insulting to individual posters, so perhaps you need to think about that.

I was asking because presumably you are changing the balance of responses and challenging what you see as problematic advice on the threads that you see. Mumsnet is not the Borg, it is made up of individual posters giving opinions, as you indicate that you have done.

Poinsettia, indeed, Mumsnet is made up of individual posters giving opinions, passive aggressive ones and non-passive aggressive ones. People do take offense at things. So I do not doubt that some people might feel insulted when I meant to insult or not. Yes, some people, I do mean to insult (rightly or wrongly) if I feel they have insulted me. Such it is.

If I am attacked for my post, so be it.

I don't read your posts in any particular way, OP and I don't think they're aggressive. I think you might have struck a nerve a bit though as you have a good relationship with your MIL. Mine is ok also, hardly ever see her but am happy to be nice when I do and she knows she can always ring if she needs something.

I think some posters do genuinely have vexing relationships with their MILs - and it is ALWAYS MILs rather than FILs, it seems? Odd that.

Regular posters don't get 'read' in the same way. Fact of life really. Keep posting but I wouldn't 'pick out' posters who aren't on the thread as you did. MN is a melting pot of people who can type on a keyboard and that's possibly the only thing in common sometimes.

The DILs who post here do so because they're in despair. Not all MILs are nice people and it's easy to stay out of the way when it's just you and DH, but once you have your own DCs one has to spend more time with ILs and this is often when toxic MILs ramp up their behaviour and undermine relationships between a poster and her DH and/or DC.

My own experience of friends, family and myself, is that mothers we know seem to be far more involved with their sons than their daughters (in some cases to the point of obsession). Most of the women I know are respected by their parents and are free to make their own life decisions, then they marry some chap and start being told how to live their lives by the MIL. It's difficult as a woman, to be mothered by someone else's mother in a way you're not accustomed to. This is often easily managed, until DC come along. My own PIL never cease to tell me how I'm doing everything wrong. We've previously had a reasonable relationship. I didn't marry DHs family, I married him. Fortunately my DH has my back and has on more than one occasion pulled them up on things they've said and has told me next time to just tell his DF to fuck off. I won't do this, but I'll happily do the MN classic "did you mean to be so rude?"

However, at the first sign of any attempt to undermine me in front of or to my children, I will come down on them with a force they will never have seen before. There are some things I'll accept for the sake of an easy life and some things I won't. The difference is my PIL aren't toxic, they're just not like my own DP and have very different approaches to everythingraising children.

Lying - in the past I have posted about my arse of a FIL. MIL is fine and happily divorced from him :)

Funkybold, did I demean people who have real issues with their in-laws?

I don't have a MIL [she is dead] and I never met her but boasting about your wonderful relationship is really distasteful when so many people have a complete nightmare with theirs.

If you feel that your opinion is valid then just post on the thread giving your point of view. What good does your stealth boast really do?

Baffled... Sorry to hear about the 'arse', glad to hear he's been 'booted' now. I don't see many posts about FILs - comparatively. :)

:)

What good does a stealth boast ever do? It always jars with somebody, whatever the topic. It doesn't stop posters making them though.

Meh. This is like a thread a few months back.

OP: I despair at all these threads telling people to go No Contact with families.

MN: Some families are abusive.

OP: Oh I didn't mean the ones where there's abuse.

MN: Where NC is being advised, it's almost always because there's abuse.

OP: I despair at all these threads telling people to go No Contact with families.

Rinse and repeat.

You see OP, some people are aggressive, unimaginative and self aggrandising.

When they became in laws they generally remain aggressive, unimaginative and self aggrandising.

The MIL - DIL relationship is always going to have the potential to be heaven, in between or hell because

1: sheer differences in style and personality differences. You choose your husband or wife because you like / are drawn to them / find them wonderful .... you don't necessarily feel the same way about the people who come with them, ie the MIL / FIL / siblings in law.

2: Your partner is used to the family dynamics. If those family dynamics are fucked up, they often don't realise. Especially because really dysfunctional family dynamics often involve a lot of controlling going on. It takes an outsider to see that something weird and unwonderful is going on. They can be the breath of fresh air. But the people living in the fusty, opprossive marriage hate the status quo changing and fight against loosing control over the son hard.

3: It can be hard for a mum to let a son go.

You don't see so many DIL from hell threads, though there are a few. Maybe because the MILs are a bit scared off!

Also - one tiny annoying or undermining or snide comment is nothing. But when you get them all the time, drip drip drip ... then they add up. Then they become hard or impossible to live with.

I do think that some people who think that MILs get a hard time just because they are MILs, have had a helluva lot of luck in their own.

Very thought-provoking post, Meerka. I think it's spot on.

I bet there are lots of DIL threads on gransnet Meerka!

That was really my point. We are mostly all mothers and not yet mothers in law. We won't change when we become MILs - we will be the very same people we are now. We are not currently saints and will immediately become sinners on the marriage of our sons. I think it's just a relationship that we have only onesided experience of for many decades. And then suddenly we get to be the MIl and not the DIL.

As I say, no doubt some MILs are awful but that's because some people are awful.

Awful people will doubtless make awful in laws, but plenty of perfectly reasonable people also make awful in laws.

Why? Because they don't adapt. They want things to continue as they have done. And things simply can't nor probably should they.

I think that's very true wordfactory

also, I may be pilloried here for saying this but some of you do make Mumsnet a thoroughly unpleasant board (eg Dawntigga)

Just have to say that actually tigga strikes me as one of the nicest of posters. If she's sharp about inlaws or family it's because of hard experience!

I boasted about my relationship with my MIL? I see my MIL off and on. We do not have much in common and do not have any issues. We respect each other but I would say we are great friends.

It's perfectly normal to find your PILs a trial. IMO it's best not to expect much, to keep them politely at arm's length and not risk disappointment. If it works out better than expected, take it as a lovely bonus!

My MIL was very difficult but it really didn't get to me. She died 4 years ago and FIL very quickly found a new GF. She is particularly obnoxious and we see her as little as possible.

I meant I wouldn't say we are great friends but we get on with each other well enough.

Oh dear.

I do actually see the odd thread which encourages unfeeling behaviour towards somebody simply because they're a MIL. Ones like 'My MIL keeps calling the baby 'my baby' and saying things like 'how's my little baby/how's granny's little boy' to him and I'm pissed off'. There are often people saying she's a grabby shit and doesn't know her place and DH needs to step in and tell her she's had her time to be a mother. Occasionally, I do feel like a lone voice on there saying grandmothers do love their dgc in a very visceral way and the language is just an extension of that. It does happen. I've sold ten years of my life to MN and it's A Thing. Not a massive one mind, but A Thing nonetheless.

I am very aware that I met my DH when he was 17 and in MIL's eyes he was still a boy. In my eyes he was a man and she needed to back off. I wasn't as good as I could have been about her struggles. I try and make up for it every day and thankfully, love my MIL very much indeed. We are good friends. I am extremely lucky.

Like anything, we all bring our own experiences to the advice we offer and it does sometimes colour the advice given. Still, MN must exist as a sounding board for people and often, that information which challenges an IL on their behaviour is utterly correct.

And dawntigga is bloody lovely.

I am also a bit appalled at singling out dawntigga for criticism. She is a lovely poster not like me so I am a bit

One of my closest friends has just started to show MILZILLA tendencies and I and my other friends are trying to shut it down but I fear we are fighting a lost cause.

She has said she needs to move near to where DS and DIL live because "When they have babies, the other GPs will see any GCs more often than I do and that would destroy me" This from a previously sane and rational woman who still has 2 other DC at home.

Some people just make crap/dodgy MILS and cannot let go of their DC or their "control"

Have a goady Christmas OP

I am the DIL from hell as far as my MIL is concerned, I have an opinion,and that is not allowed in her family, everybody sings from her hymn sheet.
Needless to say we dont have a great relationship, and my DH has just set off to visit her on his own.
Thats fine by me, I don't mind being seen as awful, its much better than toeing the line.

OP, you have put my thoughts on this issue into words exactly.

I have 'issues' with MIL. She just doesn't approve of me and I don't think she can help it. I know she would never have chosen someone like me as a life partner for her beloved ds.

But as the OP says - she is his mother, and I honour his bond with her, and would never expect him to take sides.