Inviting DBro's ExF/SILTB to wedding?

[blondebun]

So, the dynamics between certain members of my immediate family can be regarded as fairly messy and complicated. Whenever I am forced to explain the state of affairs to others I am often left feeling exhausted and somewhat torn. My upcoming wedding seems as if it’s only going to intensify and exacerbate all the bad feeling that exists. I’m not sure how to navigate through this shitstorm.

I'll start from the beginning. I met my gorgeous fiancé through my lovely brother who was dating dp's twin sister (they met at uni). And for about five years the four of us had a great time together. We were all thrilled, if not a little surprised, when DBro proposed and SILTB accepted (they were only 24). However, that happiness was short lived. About six months after the engagement DBro arrived on my doorstep in the middle of the night absolutely distraught, I had never seen my brother in such a state. (I get emotional just recalling the condition he was in) DP and I managed to get it out of him that SILTB was leaving him for another man (her boss) and not only that but she had also had a secret abortion weeks after the proposal. As you can imagine I was totally enraged (as was DP) and could not believe this woman was capable of such cruelty. She had always been the sweetest, loveliest girl. I was convinced she must have had some sort of breakdown that could enable her to act so maliciously (her father unexpectedly passed away a year earlier in a freak accident). My entire family hated her. My mother still only refers to her using a racial slur (she is of Indian origin). I am obviously unhappy about it but understand why she does.

Well fast forward five years and a lot has changed. SILTB is now living in the US and is a mother to two boys and is expecting twins early next year. Her life seems to have flourished into something quite special -she has beautiful homes, cars, lifestyle etc but a great marriage/family also. Whilst in contrast, DBro hasn’t managed to meet anyone special despite the fact that he is a very handsome, lovely guy. It appears he has only time for work these days (he is a surgeon)

I’m torn because in many ways I have forgiven her. I don't doubt for a moment that she totally regrets how she behaved and handled the situation. Over the years we have managed to rebuild our relationship- something which I have mostly kept from my own family. For me time and distance has healed. When I see her now with her husband and baby sons I know she made the right decision for herself. But of course I still harbour a lot of resentment for the way she conducted herself and the long-lasting damage this has had on DBro.

My parents assume we won’t invite her to my wedding in a year’s time. But I can’t do this to DP who loves his sister and nephews deeply and wants them there. I feel like this may also be a good opportunity to sort out unresolved issues and may ultimately be good for DBro- who is the person I most need to protect. Please advise. I feel like I'm in the middle.

mimi, tbh I think the issue though isn't that an abortion took place but that it took place within the confines of a (what the op's brother thought was) a stable relationship and that she had a termination, didn't tell him and then went on to have an affair and that the termination didn't become apparent until she left the relationship to be with her om.

The thing about affairs etc isn't so much the affair itself (although that is of course an issue) but the lies, deception and betrayal that surround it.

The abortion itself isn't an issue either but the underhanded way in which it happened - her partner had no idea that she was even pregnant but she went behind his back and had a termination, and from what the op says, seems to have used that as a weapon to beat him with while at the same time leaving him for another man.

If she was so unhappy with her relationship that she couldn't confide in her partner that she was pregnant and wanted a termination why didn't she end it then instead of then going on to have an affair?
I know that life is rarely black and white. I know that sometimes we do things which might be 1, out of character, 2, deeply hurtful to other people, and 3, which we bitterly regret later.

But even if the sil is a changed person after all that she has done (and let's face it a secret abortion with the lies and deception that involve and an affair in the space of six months is quite a lot to come back from) and has moved on with her own life with regret for the past hurt she has caused, she cannot expect others to just forgive and forget. No others should not have the right to dictate that she not be invited to the wedding. But if she does in fact have any decency after all that then she won't go.

You don't know that she used it as a stick to beat him with though WannaBe - how do you know she wasn't distraught when she told him about the affair and the termination? - that she'd felt awful keeping it from him and it all just came out? I can remember what I felt like before me and my ex split up many years ago - it was rocky for several months before we finally ended things - and if I'd got pregnant in that time, I'd have terminated the pregnancy without telling him about it. My body, my choice.

I think a lot of water has passed under that particular bridge.

Your DP's sister is now married and settled and although you almost dismiss your DB as a failure, he's a young, single, handsome surgeon with a fantastic life both now and ahead of him - hardly one of life's disappointments. I'm sure he won't struggle to meet anyone if that's what he wants. can I have his number

I get totally that this lady hurt your DB at the time. But we go through life sometimes getting hurt and occasionally hurting other people. It's not that we're nasty people, it's just part of life's rich tapestry!

If you don't invite your SILTB, it will look like your DB's still pining for her. Perhaps he is, but I'm sure he doesn't want her to know that!

Where does the OP suggest the abortion was used that way? Chances are the affair, proposal and abortion all overlapped. Otherwise I doubt very much she would have had an abortion if otherwise happily engaged at the time.

This thread though goes to show that a lot of people have differing opinions on how the fall out of events five years ago should be handled at a wedding in a years time. The only two people who really need to have input are the brother and SIL, if they can both agree to remain civil then everyone else should follow suit.

Tryharder- I certainly do not view my brother as a failure, he's an amazingly talented guy and would be an amazing catch for any girl (friends and acquaintances often ask for me to set them up with him).

I suppose the real issue is the fact that over the years we have largely avoided talking about what happened. When dp and I travelled to S. Africa (where SIL's husband is from) for the wedding, I believe we only had one conversation with dbro about it and it was excruciatingly awkward and sad for me. If this is how dbro chooses to handle the situation I will respect that and go along with it.

Oh and to add I don't believe SIL did inform dbro of the abortion to intentionally hurt him. Like I said she is not an evil person. That's why I've been able to rebuild my relationship with her. I will be skyping her later in the day and will bring this up with her properly- whilst dp is out of earshot.

I don't imagine that your sil is necessarily evil. But even good people do unspeakably bad things sometimes, and while everyone does have the right to move on with their lives and be happy again in their own right, if you hurt someone then you don't have the ability to decide when or how they get over it.

It is a difficult one, and tbh I think that if this wasn't your sil then the responses on here would have been vastly different. You only have to look at threads where people say they wouldn't be friends with someone they knew to have had an affair in the past and so on, plus people have become clouded by the racist language your mum apparently used.

Perhaps if you and your sil are now on good terms you can get her to talk to you about what really happened back then and how the affair etc all came about. While I have certainly been harsh up-thread and I stand by my points about the fact that sil's behavior was despicable, and I certainly don't think age is a justification, I also believe that affairs are rarely black and white (another view which is unpopular on mn, )

And I do agree that it is ultimately down to your brother's view rather than the view of your mum. Presumably your brother knows that you and sil are now on good terms and knows that she will be at the wedding?

Wannabe- well over the years we have had heart to hearts during which she has attempted to explain exactly what happened. But as you can imagine she likes to keep all of that in the past and has largely moved on- as far as I can tell (dp says she's always been very good at compartmentalizing). Seeing it from her perspective and understanding what she was going through at the time did help me forgive her and even her husband. (Her hubby is a hugely successful guy who is very charming and I can sort of understand how he took her in especially if you combine that with some of the doubts she was having regarding my dbro)

I appreciate how some people have attempted to empathise with what my mother has experienced. She is an incredibly emotional person who does let things get to her. But I accept she is flawed also.

Oh FGS. She was 24, which while an adult IS still young. She was not married, she had no children. She was perfectly entitled to end a relationship for whatever reason without being demonised for the rest of her life.

As for the abortion. Well, what could he have done about it anyway? Thankfully, here, you can't force a woman to go through pregnancy and birth against her wishes.

I think the whole family set up sounds rather intense and claustrophobic and that this girl probably outgrew the who Swallows and Amazons foursome thing. Why on earth anyone should continue to hold grudges is beyond me and beyond weird.

Well I spoke to SILTB earlier and she was just really lovely about everything (which has made me feel slightly bad for even considering asking her not to come). She told me that of couse she wants to be at the wedding but if her being there makes things difficult for me then she will stay away. Which hopefully it won't come to.

Great news.
SILTB being there may make things difficult I.e. Awkward for your brother and your mother but surely they wouldn't want you to be put in a difficult position or feel bad so I'm sure you're brother would also have your best interests at heart.

OP, I have a family with various hurts and unreasonable people. I got married with just two witnesses. The drama IS optional, you know?! If you already have a child, then really I would have thought what you want is a marriage rather than a wedding, and all of this is something you choose, not something that is necessary.

Or, you could use that idea as leverage if your mum kicks off about SILTB coming. Just threaten to get married without anyone there at all. That should focus her mind.

So I finally managed to meet up face-to-face with my dbro last night- we went out for a belated birthday meal for my hubby. We were just chatting about random wedding details when dbro brought up the issue of us inviting sil and her family to the wedding. Before I got a chance to speak my fiance jumped in and told my dbro that he may have "dodged a bullet" as SIL might not attend as she'll just have given birth to twin girls (which isn't even true as she told me she'll definitely be there with or without her kids) which he then follows with a joke referencing her post baby weight. I'm really annoyed with the immature way my htb handled this. When I asked dbro later on if he would prefer meeting up with my SILTB prior to the actual wedding (which he said point blank no to) my fiance jumps in and tells me that I'm making an unecessary drama out of this. So dismissive. Dbro pretty much said that he's not sure what he's going to feel when he sees her and her hubby (the guy she cheated on him with) for the first time in 5 years but he should be ok and even if he's not he'll keep himself in check for me. (So sweet) I am a little concerned as the wedding is going to be fairly intimate and I doubt we will be able to keep them apart.

My mother on the other hand...is seemingly trying to make things as difficult as possible.

I feel a bit sorry for your DB. It must be hard for him to move on and get this in perspective when his mum is still so involved. It's not about her.

I really think that they need to meet up beforehand so that this doesn't cast a shadow over your wedding.

Thought about eloping?!!!

I have thought about it as it would certainly make things a heck of a lot easier but ultimately I want to share my wedding with my friends and family. I know it may be awkward but for some family members but its hardly my fault, its not really anyones fault.

I think you just need to pretend its not happening.

Your H2Bs family are coming and so are yours. If there are any issues then they can sort them out between them as you are not getting involved in sorting out disputes. May I suggest that if your mother kicks off again you either blatantly change the subject or say "I have told you what is happening and I am not discussing it any more" repeat repeat repeat.

Sounds like your brother is wallowing in it a bit tbh though, I wonder if thats why your H2B handled it as he did. I cant help thinking that everyone tiptoeing about him is just confirming his belief that he is the heartbroken victim. Its been 5 years! I had my heart well and truly stomped on in no small way by the 2 people I trusted most in the whole world, and you know what? I got over it! He really should have moved on by now, your mother isnt helping their either I dont think.

Personally I think that the bright and breezy attitude of "Well she is coming and I am sure it will all be fine!" with your DB may have him rethinking this dog in the manger attitude he has.

there.....and other typos!

It may be that your bro is completely over her, but isn't keen on seeing her before, during or after the wedding simply because he knows she is capable of that behaviour.

It does sound a bit like everyone pussyfoots around him with regard to this woman, doesn't mention her, glosses over it when she is mentioned, and so on. Have a proper chat with him one day when your dp isn't around to be a prat over it. Just have a day/afternoon hanging out together, and when the subject comes up deal with it straight "how do you feel about her/all that, now, dbro?". Being allowed to duck an issue because it's painful is not a way to help someone move on, really, ime.

Just read your thread Op - such a difficult situation for you to be worrying about when really you should be enjoying your wedding preparations.

FWIW, I agree with Wannabe's take on the situation. Now that you've spoken to your DB though, I'd simply be telling your mum that she needs to get over it - as hurt as she is about what happened to your DB, it's not about her & you expect her to be on her best behaviour & enjoy your wedding day.

Good luck though as it's a difficult one with such hurt feelings.

Hi, I am revisiting this thread as a number of developments have occurred since I last posted. I am grateful for all the support and advice I received previously, however I do feel the thread took a strange (and unhelpful) turn when I had to defend my mother from being labelled a racist-an accusation I still strongly refute).

I'll keep it brief as I could quite easily write an essay of absolute BS without it making any sense. My SIL2B's husband (the guy she left my brother for) was in London for work and ended up visiting and spending the night with us. It was a last minute business trip before Christmas so things weren't exactly planned. Unbelievably, my brother turns up (for no apparent reason) on the very same night! My brother has never surprised us in this way before! (He lives about an hour away and always drops us a text before visiting) What are the chances?! I told him straight away that SIL2B's husband was here. He didn't want to stay but for some reason (I was slightly tipsy) I convinced him to come in. I just didn't want it to look like he was running away. Plus rather selfishly I thought we could get the awkwardness out of the way before the big day. DBro has met SIL2B's husband a few times but only when he was working as SIL2B's boss, so not since she left him. We made the awkward introductions and I thought things were going ok.

Apparently, (according to DBro) SIL2B's husband made some insulting comment- I didn't hear this and would be surprised if he did. But then again I have no reason to doubt DBro either. Words were exchanged but nothing OTT happened (My DD was sleeping upstairs). I thought it was all over but I got a text NYE from Dbro basically saying he's going to steer clear of my wedding as he doesn't want to be dragged into anymore BS.

I am heartbroken that it has come to this. I am in disbelief that it has worked out like this. I was trying my utmost best to make things as simple as possible. I am just looking for some outside perspective. My mother is obviously siding with my brother and thinks SIL2B's husband should be dis-invited. Which seems harsh as I can't be sure he did anything wrong but then again I want my brother at my wedding. I am worried things aren't going to get resolved.

Oh dear. How bloody unfortunate.

What was the comment? Was it something genuinely offensive or something that could have been misconstrued by your brother because of the emotionally-loaded situation?

I think that your bro is probably still angry with his ex and has exaggerated the comment or chosen to take offence to remind you of how hurt he is. Maybe he still feels wronged and on some level is trying to force you to 'choose' to prove that he is in the right?

Either way, coming or not coming to the wedding is his choice and he can't really expect your H to not invite his sister and BIL because of an argument that actually has nothing to do with you two.

Do you think your fiance texted DB to tell him SIL2Bs husband was there? I am sorry I just don't believe he turned up by chance.

If DBro doesn't want to attend your wedding then just let it go. If DM keeps sticking her oar in threaten her with being uninvited.

Actually, the fact he texted you on NYE probably points to the fact he's feeling bruised. It's a v emotional night for many people. He's being a bit manipulative, I think. I might not be on purpose but he's clearly still upset about his ex. I'd just tell him you respect his decision and leave it. I bet he'll change his mind bit closer to the wedding if you have a calmer chat with him then.

Well, I might be missing something, but from a skim-read of this, it strikes me that your Dbro needs to get over himself and move on. He and a former gf split up, in admittedly not the best of circumstances, but hey, it's not uncommon.
Why is he (and your mother) still banging on about it FIVE years later?