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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Another 'My Mum' thread. I've reached the end of my tether, I think. (Another long one)

110 replies

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:03

Basically, up to now I've kept my relatively strained relationship with my Mum off MN. But the fact is that I need to talk about it to someone, I should prob have changed my name but there you go. Whenever I talk to DH about it he just sits, listens and refuses to say anything negative (which is fair enough, I suppose), but sometimes I really need to hear that he is on my side.

Condensed background - My parents separated when I was 6 years old. My father was a violent alcoholic gambler (with an utterly charming, handsome and likeable facade). My mother was entirely controlled by him. Lots of things were witnessed and experienced by me that no child should ever have to go through. When they separated, they asked me who I wanted to live with, I was 6 years old and sat inbetween them being asked to choose. My father was crying and my Mum wasn't, so my 6yr old brain chose the one who looked most upset .

I went to live with my father. I still saw my Mum every other weekend and used to cry when she brought me back to my father's house, he used to 'phone her and ask her why I was so miserable after spending time with her (I wasn't miserable about going there, I was miserable and terrified at having to come back). My father got together with a woman a few years older than him and he continued to dole out the same violent behaviour. She took it out on me. I once forgot my Brownie uniform (I must've been about 7) and she held me by the throat up against the living room wall, she actually lifted my feet off the ground and was screaming with rage into my face. This is/was a 40+ year old woman.

I eventually begged to go and live with my Mum at 11 because I couldn't handle it anymore. I moved in and life was ok from then on. I never saw my father again (my choice entirely). My Mum was the 'cool' Mum that all my teenage mates wanted, she would let me out 'til all hours and was fairly relaxed with anything and everything I wanted to do as a teenager. Quite detached, not very maternal, although I always knew she loved me.

I moved 100 miles away from my Mum just a few months before my 17th birthday and was v happy. I was still relatively glad of the detached parenting style she employed.

I eventually moved areas again and settled down with my now DH. We had only been together a few months when I moved in with him, and shortly after I was pg (planned). My Mum didn't take well to the news of my pg and completely shut down. She would 'phone and ask about everyone and everything bar the pregnancy. When DD was born my Mum was very happy and fell in love with DD. Although 'phone calls never included "how's DD?". Which really, really hurt.

It really seems to me that it is a total case of 'out of sight, out of mind' for my mother. When we are there at her house, or she is here, she is so involved and wants to be a part of it, but when we are apart it's like we don't even occur to her. She didn't 'phone to ask how DD's first day of school went, despite her knowing the date (I'd told her about 3 times). Nor did she 'phone to find out how my first day college had gone. I could go on forever, but tech wouldn't thank me !

I have to 'phone her all the time. I'm sick of chasing her, practically forcing her to take an interest in her grand-daughter's life, our lives. But the problem is that I feel trapped by it. My Mum is DD's only living grandparent, DD adores her (mainly because she is 4 and is protected from the vague nature of her grandmother). I can't afford for DD to lose her, but I can't spend the next 20 years+ begging my mother to be a part of our lives.

I've talked to my Mum about it countless times but she just denies everything and cries, leaving me feeling fucking awful and unjustified. I don't know what to do, but I know I can't go on like this.

OP posts:
NAB3 · 03/10/2006 11:10

I have had hassels with my inlaws and always feel that my children have to have a relationship with them as they have no one else. I have no family. Having said that, the inlaw probs are more to do with my issues and there is no reason to keep the children from them BUT if it was being detrimental to the well-being of my children - family or not, and we haven't got a big one, I would stop bothering. My children are 5, 3 and 1 and haven't really realised I don't have parents yet. They know Nanny and Grandad are Daddy's Mummy and Daddy but apart from asking a couple of times where my Mum is they aren't really that aware.
Maybe send a card/letter, try asking why she doesn't call you or ask about certain things. I can understand how you feel you can't afford for your daughter to loose her Nanny but sometimes something isn't better than nothing. Good luck.

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:13

Thanks for replying. It would be easy, a total no-brainer if my Mum was 100% shit, but she is utterly fab with DD (with the whole family) when she is physically here.

OP posts:
donnie · 03/10/2006 11:13

sounds like she has real issues with showing her feelings. Maybe she suppresses her feelings towards your dd because she is subtly remonded of the fact that you left her when you were 6 and she is nervous or fearful of forming attachments which could be broken.

FWIW my dad ( only living grandparent to our 2 dds) also had to choose between his parents at the age of 10, and had to go and live on a different continent, while his brother remained in England with the other parent. They didn't see eachother for years and my dad never saw his own father again. While he is a lovely dad and grandad in many ways he is also non-committal, not good at keeping in touch and has always had real issues with showing affection and commitment. He has never really spoken about his childhood much and I know nothing about my granfather ( his dad).

HTH.

saadia · 03/10/2006 11:15

oh NDP I don't know what to say to help but am very sorry that you are in this situation. The easy answer would be to leave your mum to it and not force her - the old adage that people don't change unless they want to. I can understand that you want your dd to have that relationship and I know she is very young but my logical brain is saying that it's better for her to know early on what grandma is like. Easy to say I know when it's someone else's child. I know I would be gutted if my dss grandparents didn't take an interest in them but children are actually very resilient and possibly don't miss what they never had - if that makes any sense.

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:17

Donnie, I didn;t 'leave her' when I was 6. Please don;t make me feel anymore guilt about my fucked up childhood than I already do. That is the biggest mistake I ever made, but I was 6. I wasn't able to make that decision.

OP posts:
NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:18

[need to take 5 to catch my sanity and stiff upper lip]

OP posts:
GeorginaA · 03/10/2006 11:18

Aw NdP What would happen if you just let her do the running for a while? I can't help thinking that you doing the chasing is what is stressing you out most of all. I do think sometimes we have these idealised views of what grandparents are/should be and the reality never quite matches up, does it?

FWIW, my mother is very similar in that she'll swan off for months at a time then complain that the kids have grown up too quickly in the meantime - well, duh!

I've had a lot better relationship with her in the past year or so. Mainly I think because I have less emotional investment on getting her approval/attention. She's noticed the difference ("I'm not sure you need me any more" said in quite a pitiful woe is me voice) but I don't think she's changed particularly - just I've changed into a position where it doesn't affect me as much anymore.

Not sure if that helps, but did want to reply so you knew someone had read it through I don't think you'll ever change her. What I think you need to do is work out strategies that make you feel happier about it. Dd will be fine regardless - either she'll have a relationship with her or not, but she'll be fine because she has an ace mum and dad

twocatsonthebed · 03/10/2006 11:19

ndp, parts of your post really resonate with me. My parents are also divorced and I went to live with my father - although without all of the awful things that you had to go through and witness - and my mother has always been very detached, almost distant. Although I've pretty much got used to it, I'm pregnant now and finding her disinterest pretty hard to take once again.

The main thing that helped me - although clearly these things never quite right themselves - was going to counselling and talking it over. I suspect that you're not just upset for your DD, you're upset for the small child that you were at that age, and you keep going back to your mother to try and make up for what happened when you were small and try and get the love that you think you've missed out on.

This was certainly the case for me (and one thing my counsellor said always resonates with me, which was that you don't keep going back to the table if you've had a good meal in the first place).

Like I said, I am now reasonably able to accept that this is the way that these things are - and also to realise that my mother is the way she is because she had a frankly appalling childhood, but I definitely needed help to get there.

frumpygrumpy · 03/10/2006 11:20

Sounds crap NdP and alien to someone that is not like that at all.

From what you've said though, it sounds like she isn't a bad mother or gandparent. Just that the thoughts don't occur to her. Its is hurtful for you but I'm not sure she could change. She is perhaps selfish but I'm not sure its intentional. Maybe I'm talking crap....

twocatsonthebed · 03/10/2006 11:20

and I'd also agree with Georgina, that when I went to counselling and was able to get on with my own life better, our relationship improved massively. But it took unpicking all of those resentments and upsets from the past to do that.

frumpygrumpy · 03/10/2006 11:23

FWIW, I don't think any of this is in any way related to her split with your dad or the decision you were forced to make. You were put in an awful position and carry that guilt, but its unrelated to now x.

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:24

Thanks G [watery smile]

She just makes me so fucking angry. She is supposed to be the responsible adult here. Shouldering her inadequacies is not my problem (or at least it shouldn't be). Maybe I'm trying to fight for a relationship that doesn't exist, but I feel I owe it to DD to make her childhood as far removed from my own. Although I had a fantastic Nanna, she was the rock throughout all the bad stuff. Maybe that's why I'm clinging to this ?

I don't know how to stop it making me feel so totally, utterly, dispairingly and shit. My daughter does not deserve to be ignored by her grandmother.

OP posts:
CheesyFeetcomingtoGETyou · 03/10/2006 11:25

NdP, sorry to see you in this situation, you always seem so upbeat on here that it's sad to read you've had such a shit time.

I think you need to talk to your mum and find out what is causing her behaviour. It would seem that she has a problem getting too close to you and yours. Have you ever explained to her why you chose your dad and not her when you were 6? And how it was such a difficult decision to make at any age never mind such a young one. Perhaps if you explain that you knew fairly early on that you'd made a mistake but didn't know how to fix it, then she will realise that you aren't going to choose not to have her in your life.

Perhaps you could set up a regular contact, say every third Saturday (or whatever suits). This way she may feel that she is wanted on an ongoing basis, and she doesn't have to remember to call or to arrange a date. Could it be that she's scatterbrained and doesn't remember that it's been ages since you last saw/spoke to her? I have a brother like this, he can go incognito for months on end without realising it.

I do feel for you, my mum has spates of total crapness and is in the process of fucking up my sister's life because of her habit of brushing things under the carpet. You have my total understanding and empathy.

3monkeys · 03/10/2006 11:26

I really feel for you. I have a fairly fragile relationship with my mum, which is only held together by the fact that my kids think she's fabulous! She is a great Granny but a terrible mother (to me, not my sister!) But whenever I threaten that I've had enough, I end up giving in and ringing her or apologising, because she's the only one I'm going to have!

Don't know if that helps much. Think I'm trying to say you have to try and accept that that's how it's going to be, because she's probably not going to change

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:26

Frumpy, like I said before, if she was bad I could make the decision to just draw a line under it, but it's the ambivalence I can;t handle.

OP posts:
frumpygrumpy · 03/10/2006 11:26

If your mum is good with your DD and they enjoy each others company, could you ask her for a regular date, say the first saturday every month? Just to see if it forces her into being regular?

Northerner · 03/10/2006 11:28

Hi NDP, christ I had no idea this was happenning to you. My dh could literally write teh same post as you. execpt his mum made him and his bro go and live with their Father as she didn't want them. However is mum is quite nasty/vindictive, but whe she is around she is fab. Funny, caring, and our ds adores her. But then we can not hear from her for weeks, she also has not asked about ds's first day at school.

It is such a tricky situation, and I don't really have any advice for you. Don't feel guilty about 'choosing' your Dad when you were 6. You should never have been put in that situation. Maybe both your parents were spineless, allowing a 6 year old to make this decision. They were the adults, and they can not make you responsible. As my dh's mum, it says alot about a woman I think taht they will allow their child to live with their ex and another woman. I would never allow it - would you? Most woman would walk over hot coals to keep their kids. Hope that doesn't sound too harsh?

Their is a book available on amazon called Toxic Parents. Perhaps that could help you understand that you can't change your relationship with your mum, but help you to accept things they way they are?

Good luck
xx

frumpygrumpy · 03/10/2006 11:31

Could you print the thread? It says it all. Stay strong, none of this is your fault.

KristinaM · 03/10/2006 11:31

two cats is right. you cant change the way she is. You will either have to accept it or stop contact with her. I dont think you want to stop seing her, at least for the sake of your DD. Counselling would help you deal with your own feelings about it all.

BTW no one here is blaming you for the "choice " you had to make as a 6yo. Except youreslf maybe? If i were you I would be mad as hell at your parnets for putting you in that position. They opted out of their duty as parenst by making you choose. Not right IMHO.Put it thsi way, if i seperated from myDH i would NEVER NEVER dream if asking my 6yo DD what she "wanted". He is a great dad but I woudl have the kids. No questions asked.
Your mum shoudl have fought for you, not sat there meekly asking you to "choose".

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:32

Thanks Cheesy. We live 1hr 45m from each other on crappola roads, and my Mum has a f/t job and a fairly active social life so 'regular dates' are not really an option. Her memory is elephantine. I have also told DH that I won't take DD to hers in the future because my Mum's dig has bitten DD 3 times (1 bite from one dog, 2 bits from another), but my Mum refuses point blank to shut the dogs out when DD is there (an afternoon, once every other month or so). She says 'It's not fair on the dog'. WHAT ABOUT THE CHILD IT HAS BITTEN ? She comes here more often (or used to), but it's the inbetween stuff that gets me.

OP posts:
NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:33

dog, not dig.

Thank you all for you posts, they mean a lot

OP posts:
Frieda · 03/10/2006 11:34

NdP - my heart goes out to you over your upbringing. It sounds horrendous. No one should have asked a six-year-old child to choose one parent over the other. TBH, it sounds as though both your parents are very damaged people in different ways (sorry if that sounds harsh) and perhaps not emotionally able to cope with relationships in the way one would hope.

As a child, you missed out on so much of the nurturing parental love most of us (thankfully) take for granted - possibly, you're subconsciouly still looking for that? The sad thing is, you may not be able to force your mum to take an interest in your family, however hurtful that may be for you. Obviously the situation is very complex and I don't really know, but it sounds as though your mum's head-in-the-sand approach could be some kind of coping mechanism. Which doesn't really help you.

It's a shame your dh isn't able to support you fully in the way you hoped. Is there anyone else you can confide in? A friend or a sister? Could you talk things over with a counsellor to try to get some perspective on this?

You mustn't feel responsible for your mum's reaction - I think you are right to tell her how you feel, but she may just not be able to face up to it. Perhaps she'll be able to at some point in the future - who knows?

I, too, have a difficult relationship with my mum. When I've tried to talk to her about things in the past, it's as though we've been living on different planets - her version of the past (ie happy family, no problems, wonderful dad) is so different from mine (dysfunctional family, horrible fights with pots and pans being thrown, several attempted suicides) - that I've all but given up. I think the only way she can cope with family relationships is to pretend there's no problem. I think the best you may be able to do with this is to find a way of accepting how she is without letting it upset you too much.

Don't know if that's any help at all, but I really do sympathise with your situation.

KristinaM · 03/10/2006 11:34

sorry x posted with northerner

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:38

I have been through a lot in life (not a 'woe is me statement, just a fact) and I have never felt the need for counselling, I have been fairly well equipped to deal with it my own way. I'm not really sure what counselling would achieve for me. I also think DH might think me a bit weak (?) for feeling that I should have it. It must be the Mancunian in me.

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3monkeys · 03/10/2006 11:38

Frieda, the 'selective memory' sounds just like my mum! And to try and tell her otherwise just causes arguments, so you have to just let it go