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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Another 'My Mum' thread. I've reached the end of my tether, I think. (Another long one)

110 replies

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:03

Basically, up to now I've kept my relatively strained relationship with my Mum off MN. But the fact is that I need to talk about it to someone, I should prob have changed my name but there you go. Whenever I talk to DH about it he just sits, listens and refuses to say anything negative (which is fair enough, I suppose), but sometimes I really need to hear that he is on my side.

Condensed background - My parents separated when I was 6 years old. My father was a violent alcoholic gambler (with an utterly charming, handsome and likeable facade). My mother was entirely controlled by him. Lots of things were witnessed and experienced by me that no child should ever have to go through. When they separated, they asked me who I wanted to live with, I was 6 years old and sat inbetween them being asked to choose. My father was crying and my Mum wasn't, so my 6yr old brain chose the one who looked most upset .

I went to live with my father. I still saw my Mum every other weekend and used to cry when she brought me back to my father's house, he used to 'phone her and ask her why I was so miserable after spending time with her (I wasn't miserable about going there, I was miserable and terrified at having to come back). My father got together with a woman a few years older than him and he continued to dole out the same violent behaviour. She took it out on me. I once forgot my Brownie uniform (I must've been about 7) and she held me by the throat up against the living room wall, she actually lifted my feet off the ground and was screaming with rage into my face. This is/was a 40+ year old woman.

I eventually begged to go and live with my Mum at 11 because I couldn't handle it anymore. I moved in and life was ok from then on. I never saw my father again (my choice entirely). My Mum was the 'cool' Mum that all my teenage mates wanted, she would let me out 'til all hours and was fairly relaxed with anything and everything I wanted to do as a teenager. Quite detached, not very maternal, although I always knew she loved me.

I moved 100 miles away from my Mum just a few months before my 17th birthday and was v happy. I was still relatively glad of the detached parenting style she employed.

I eventually moved areas again and settled down with my now DH. We had only been together a few months when I moved in with him, and shortly after I was pg (planned). My Mum didn't take well to the news of my pg and completely shut down. She would 'phone and ask about everyone and everything bar the pregnancy. When DD was born my Mum was very happy and fell in love with DD. Although 'phone calls never included "how's DD?". Which really, really hurt.

It really seems to me that it is a total case of 'out of sight, out of mind' for my mother. When we are there at her house, or she is here, she is so involved and wants to be a part of it, but when we are apart it's like we don't even occur to her. She didn't 'phone to ask how DD's first day of school went, despite her knowing the date (I'd told her about 3 times). Nor did she 'phone to find out how my first day college had gone. I could go on forever, but tech wouldn't thank me !

I have to 'phone her all the time. I'm sick of chasing her, practically forcing her to take an interest in her grand-daughter's life, our lives. But the problem is that I feel trapped by it. My Mum is DD's only living grandparent, DD adores her (mainly because she is 4 and is protected from the vague nature of her grandmother). I can't afford for DD to lose her, but I can't spend the next 20 years+ begging my mother to be a part of our lives.

I've talked to my Mum about it countless times but she just denies everything and cries, leaving me feeling fucking awful and unjustified. I don't know what to do, but I know I can't go on like this.

OP posts:
frumpygrumpy · 03/10/2006 11:39

A full time job and an active social life say it all. It sounds like she does love you and your dd but doesn't need you to fill a void in her life. You guys meanwhile have a space for an attentive mum and grandmother, esp since you had that relationship with your nan.

She really needs to learn how hurt you are about all this. And you need to be in a strong, calm position to be able to present it to her the best way.

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:42

Frieda, I think you are right to a degree in that she just pretends none of it has happened, but I've talked to her about all the stuff that went on behind closed doors at my father's house, and the things I remember seeing so vividly prior to the split, and she acknowledges that they did happen. This is why I find it hard to link her detatchedness to our past. If she was as emotionally distant as has been suggested, then WHY is she so cuddly and loving when she is physically here with us ?

OP posts:
frumpygrumpy · 03/10/2006 11:42

I had counselling a while back, took me about 4 years to get there as I saw it as a personal failing. The first thing I was told was that it was the strongest thing I could have done, admitting to myself I wanted a change and being strong enough to seek it out. It didn't help overnight but it give me a new way to look at life.

Bozza · 03/10/2006 11:43

TBH ndp I sort of see what donnie is saying. But my take on it is that during the years you were living with your Dad your Mum sort of forgot how to be a parent and became a bit detached. Hence when you were a teenager she treated you more like a peer than a child. But I suppose you getting pg maybe reminded her.

It is difficult because it is not clear cut. If your Mum was really awful and DD was not at all attached it would be more straight forward. But because DD loves her so much I really think you should keep contact. As DD gets older she will eventually realise that her Grandma is flaky. How often roughly are you in touch these days?

Also another thought. I would imagine your feelings are complicated by finding it hard to forgive your Mum for leaving you with your Dad. She knew that he was a violent bully but left you, a vulnerable child, with him. My DS is 5 and I would fight with everything I have to keep him with me (and also 2yo DD, obviously).

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:44

frumpy. Calm, unemotional is just not something I can be where this is concerned. I have sat here in angry tears since this thread began, I can't help it. It is the only issue that really rips me up.

OP posts:
frumpygrumpy · 03/10/2006 11:44

cuddly and loving is good, she is showing her feelings, she does love you both

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:45

Bozza. I have 'phoned her 5 times in the last 2 months, she has not 'phoned once.

OP posts:
frumpygrumpy · 03/10/2006 11:47

sorry we crossed. The DTs have trashed the kitchen and i must sort it out. Back as soon as I can....

Dior · 03/10/2006 11:49

Message withdrawn

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:49

Thank you. I think I need to walk away from this thread for a bit, too. Get on with something banal, nice and mindnumbing.

OP posts:
NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:50

Thanks Dior, I read you thread but had absolutely nothing helpful to add. I'm sorry you are dealing with the fallout of questionable parenting. x

OP posts:
flashingnose · 03/10/2006 11:51

I completely agree with frieda's post. The one thing you can control and can do something about is your reaction to your Mum's behaviour. At the moment, you're holding DD up and saying "look mum, isn't she gorgeous, surely you want to spend time with her?" and your mum's indifference is hurting you immensely - more so because of the instability of your upbringing.

Reading through your OP, your mum has actually been pretty consistent in her attitude towards you/your dd i.e. she has a fairly "out of sight, out of mind" attitude to you both. It sounds pretty much as if she's not going to change that and hoping that she will is just going to hurt you further.

FWIW, my Dad is very similar to your Mum and it has caused me anguish from time to time but I try very hard to step back and let the children make up their own minds - as far as I'm concerned, he is the one that's losing out and it's the same with your Mum. Your DD is only losing out in your head - you have an idea of what an "ideal" Grandma should be like whereas DD doesn't and will be quite happy with whatever relationship she has with your Mum (and from what you say, it's a very good one).

I really would try and get some counselling for your own peace of mind and hopefully you can move past this and accept your mum for what she is.

Good luck

Bozza · 03/10/2006 11:51

Right, fully agree with you on the dogs. You just cannot take your DD into a room with dogs that have previous history of biting her. I am sure you are fully aware of this.

What happens if you don't ring her? Does it get to a certain point and she eventually gets round to ringing you? This is what happens with my Mum but it could be 2 or 3 weeks or more. I have similar issues with my Mum as you but without the traumatic history.

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:53

I actually said to DH, about a fortnight ago, that I wasn't going to 'phone her. I was going to wait for her to 'phone me. It has been 3.5 weeks now. Whenever she does phone it is usually to tell me about something going on in her life. She doesn't bother with the 'hello, how're things at your end' bit first, she just barrells in, talks about herself and hangs up.

OP posts:
NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:55

Maybe I am projecting my childhood onto DD's relationship with my Mum, but I cannot understand for the life of me WHY she doesn't want to know how DD's first day at school went etc

OP posts:
flashingnose · 03/10/2006 11:59

If I didn't phone my Dad, I'd never hear from him! He has a new girlfriend, they go travelling all over the country together, but coming to see us for the day is a "bit of a long drive" - we're less than an hour away. It's incredibly hard not to be hurt by that so I do know where you're coming from. But I think this runs much deeper with you because of your childhood and that's why I think counselling would be a very positive and helpful thing for you to do (and believe me, I have been very sceptical about it in the past but have seen the fantastic way it helped my friend move past some serious issues in her marriage).

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 11:59

Thanks flashingnose. Maybe I'll broach it with my GP.

OP posts:
Dior · 03/10/2006 12:00

Message withdrawn

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 12:00

Can I be referred for counselling for this sort of thing or will I have to go private ? I don't think DH would be pleased with paying private fees.

OP posts:
flashingnose · 03/10/2006 12:00

You really do have nothing to lose.

Dior · 03/10/2006 12:04

Message withdrawn

flashingnose · 03/10/2006 12:04

I think DH would realise it was money well spent - he's seen how much it hurts you and it's not like it's a problem that's going to go away.

NomDePlume · 03/10/2006 12:08

I know, but I am 'fine' for a couple/3 months or so and then it all comes bubbling back up to the surface. DH's first wife suffered from depression, DH did all he could to support her, but they split after 8 yrs together. I guess I'm afraid that if I show a chink of weakness like needing 'professional help' then he'll worry that history is repeating itself.

OP posts:
Frieda · 03/10/2006 12:09

[Amateur psychologist hat on here ] I was wondering whether her "out-of-sight out-of-mind" approach could stem - to some extent - from the fact that it was the only way she found to cope with the fact that she must have felt she'd effectively abandoned you at the age of six to your domineering, controlling dad. Possibly she hasn't "grown out" of this coping mechanism. They'd obviously had a volatile marriage and she knew what he was like, yet her fear of his dominating, controlling behaviour prevented her from confronting her own feelings.

Underneath it all, I think she must feel a huge amount of guilt and responsibility for your childhood, but possibly cannot face up to thinking about it. No one could possibly hold a six-year-old responsible for such a decision. To take a somewhat ridiculous comparison, if I asked my six-year-old DS between eating his usual (reasonably) balanced diet for the next six months or having nothing but chocolate for breakfast, lunch and dinner, I think I know what he'd choose. And I also think I know who's fault the consequences of that choice would be - and it wouldn't be his.

wartywarthog · 03/10/2006 12:22

ndp, your story breaks my heart. i think it is all brought to the fore because of your dd and perhaps since your nan was so important to you, you want hers to be just as good a rock. unfortunately i think your mum isn't capable of being responsible in the way that you need. your upbringing and her detached parenting style shows that that is just the way she is. she probably can't comprehend what you actually need, and under the surface is riddled with guilt at what your father put you through. i'm sure she feels responsible for it but doesn't know how to handle it and doesn't know how to repair it.

i also think that you're very good at understanding and analysing yourself and you're a very strong person. it's ok to admit to your dh that you need to have his understanding and support. you can reassure him that you're not like his ex, but you need him to back you up at the moment.

i think my first step would be to write a letter to your mum. don't phone her just yet, but write it all down and think about whether you want to send it to her. i'm not convinced that she'll change as a result, but it might help you accept her the way she is, and come to terms with the fact that you will always have to make the effort. it's a shame, because some parents don't deserve such wonderful children like you.

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