Rape -Judy Finnegan

[HiawathaDidntBotherTooMuch]

DH and I were talking about this earlier. I hadn't heard anything about it, but he said 'Judy Finnegan got into trouble earlier for what she said about that footballer, going on to recount what she had said. Then he said 'you can understand what she meant though, there are different types of rape ...'. I flew off the handle, and said that I was offended and disgusted by what he had said.

He then went on and in about how sentences can vary to reflect the degrees of violence in rapes. I again flew off the handle and said that all rapes are violent.

He tried to explain what he meant. Which was that all rapes are disgusting, and every rapist should go to prison for their actions. But that some rapes involved more violence than others, just like some murders are more violent than others. He wanted to discuss it with me, but I couldn't speak to him, I was so disgusted. He has stormed off saying that I am pathetic and weird for not discussing what he had tried to explain.

I cannot get my head around what he is saying.

I would only date someone found not guilty of burglary if i believed myself that they didnt do it, and not that the evidence wasnt quite good enough. Same would apply to rape.

I'm not flying off a handle? I didnt read warysara as being angry either?

I'm not angry. Was genuinely interested in the 'Why'.

I just think sexual crime has a stigma attached when found innocent, especially in this google oriented world.

Oh, I think the other person was referring to the original poster rather than us BeyondPreparedforHell.

If I can reply as a man, OP try to talk with your DH you may not be far apart in your views but just not taking the time to understand each other.

There are different degrees of rape, some are more serious than others, but all are violent in that the perpetrator is forcing themselves on the victim. The punishment should be more severe for more severe cases, for example if a guy repeatedly raped a woman over a number of years that could be viewed as more severe than a single rape. If the perpetrator is in a position of authority or responsibility over the victim could that be viewed as requiring a more severe sentence? When sentencing a criminal a Judge will take these things into account. I'm not trying to say that any rape should be minimised or that the victim of any rape has not suffered a violent assault that they may never get over, just that some are more violent or despicable than others.

So HBoy you thought it was a good idea to mansplain rape to a bunch of women? Did you even bother to read the thread? You're simply spouting the same rape myths as the OP's husband.

Rape is rape. Some rape occurs with additional violence which is then charged separately - ABH, GBH, kidnapping etc.

"There are different degrees of rape" eh Hampshireboy? Um. No. The only measure of rape is wether a man has penetrated another persons vagina, anus or mouth with his penis. That is rape. There is no shades of grey. Wether it was for a second and he stopped or wether he continued for a period of time, the ONLY measure is did he pentrate.
There may be differing degrees of how it affects his victim, but the rape bit of it is quite clear in law. Penetration, without consent, no matter how brief.

Exactly the point and that shows the difference in view. There are no degrees of rape, there are differing levels of violence used with rape.

Those increased levels attract an increased level of punishment, as they should.

Thanks for the angry irrational responses, yes I did read the thread. It was not mansplain or myths; I was trying to say what the OPs H might have meant if she hadn't bit his head off. Having had to help several women survive rape and attended court I am well aware of the trauma.

For all your ranting you are refusing to accept that there are degrees of rape, as reflected in sentences passed. Also penetration does not have to occur for it to be rape.

You also carefully ignored that I said that all rapes are violent.

Ok, "degrees" might not be the right word for you. There are different amounts of violence and trauma suffered by the victim.

Hmm. Looking back i was raped at uni. Woke up, found him in me. It was definitely not consensual, I'd been drinking and fallen asleep in his bed. I pushed him off me, shouted at him, put my clothes back on (which I hadn't taken off) and stormed out.

Obviously he shouldn't have done it. But really, I shouldn't have drunk that much and put myself in a position where harm (of any kind) could have come to me. He was a nice guy, he'd also been drinking a lot that night. Obviously not that nice, but certainly not a threat to society in normal circumstances.

I wasn't emotionally harmed by this, more disgusted with myself. I certainly did not see fit to report it! Lesson learnt.

The lady who described a client who was violently raped..well, that's beyond awful. How would you get over that? My body was not harmed. University experience more than anything (not a nice one)

So in a way..I do agree with Judy Finnigan, and your husband. No means no, but I don't believe all rapes are 'equal' or violent.

But obviously I'll be now flamed for having such an opinion on here.

The responses were perfectly rational HB, it was your post that was irrational and actually outright incorrect.

There is no such thing as a 'degree' of rape, as you claim:

There are different degrees of rape, some are more serious than others

And if you've ever sat through a sex offence trial you should know that.

Sentencing has nothing to do with the 'degree' of rape, as it does not exist.

Not flamed, Fairy, but it was not your fault at all. It was only his.

But really, I shouldn't have drunk that much and put myself in a position where harm (of any kind) could have come to me. still his fault

He was a nice guy, he'd also been drinking a lot that night. Obviously not that nice, but certainly not a threat to society in normal circumstances.
As when he'd drink a lot? Or if he found himself close to a woman who couldn't consent?

I wasn't emotionally harmed by this, more disgusted with myself.
If you were disgusted with yourself, you were emotionally harmed.

I certainly did not see fit to report it! Lesson learnt.
Which is a shame.
What lesson did you learn? That you shouldn't drink? :(
What lesson did he learn?
Would you have reported a thief if he had stolen from your purse when you were drunk?

Twinklestein I'll duck out now, but my posts were neither irrational nor incorrect. As I said "degree" might not be an acceptable word to you but the fact remains that some rapes are more violent than others. Sentencing reflects several different factors, including the severity of the offence(s).

HBoy - the law states rape is the penetration of another persons mouth, vagina or anus by the perpetrators penis.
Under what circumstances would it be rape if there was no penetration?

"agree JuniorMumber. Statutory rape is an ideal example. "

For the nth time, statutory rape is not a crime that we have in the Uk.

Anyone under the age of 13 is deemed unable to consent to a sexual interaction because of their age. Between 13 and 16 there is a public interest test of any potential prosecution - in general, two 14 year olds having sex will not be prosecuted if it was consenting whereas a 24 year old (say) having sex with a 15 year old might be prosecuted even if the 15 year old said yes.

Statutory rape is a US crime, not a UK crime.

Lewji That I shouldn't drink to such excess that I have no control over what I'm doing.

This happened 20 years ago to me. I would hope/imagine that girls of today are far more savvy and wouldn't stupidly put themselves at risk in this way.

Yes, of course it was his fault. But I put myself in a silly position.

I would also hope that boys/men of today are far more savvy and not so bloody stupid! Used to be considered 'banter' at uni fresher week for eg to talk about Girls who Love a Muppet ..pretty sure that type of thing is not allowed now, and rightly so.

Stupidly I didn't learn my lesson and I think in total, I've been in 3 situations that really shouldn't have happened. One I definitely just had sex because I knew/thought it would cause aggro if I said no. Again, too much alcohol to blame.

Thankfully I'm all grown up now , married and would never ever get into a situation like this!

BTW, this footballer, what a total creep. I am a little mystified though as to why he served time for rape and his 'mate' didn't??

the law states rape is the penetration of another persons mouth, vagina or anus by the perpetrators penis

Sorry I missed typed and meant that rape did not only apply to vaginal penetration. I have a vague memory that a guy was successfully prosecuted for rape when he used his fingers only, but that might be my incorrect memory.

Twinklestein I'll duck out now, but my posts were neither irrational nor incorrect. As I said "degree" might not be an acceptable word to you but the fact remains that some rapes are more violent than others. Sentencing reflects several different factors, including the severity of the offence(s)

It's not a question of 'acceptable' HB but correct and incorrect. There is no such thing as 'degree' of rape, there are rapes in different circumstances, by a person known or unknown to the complainant.

You seem to be making the assumption that degree of rape depends on how violent is its - as you connect 'degree' to 'some rapes are more violent than others'.

"BTW, this footballer, what a total creep. I am a little mystified though as to why he served time for rape and his 'mate' didn't??"

See link above, but broadly, the victim went back to the hotel room with the mate (who she knew previously) and the jury I suppose concluded that this gave the mate reasonable belief in her consent (I disagree as she was too drunk to have capacity to consent). Mate then texted Evans who took a cab to the hotel and raped her - she hadn't interacted with him before he came into the hotel room where mate was already penetrating her.

just delurking here. started reading this forum as useful prism for my own relationships and found many of the posters dealing with difficulty inspiring.

having read the court report on this case, itis a very good example of both why convictions are difficult in rape cases and why sentencing needs to be flexible to the circumstances of the crime. I recommend it to anyone interested in the conviction/aquittal. JFs comments were ill judged, whether she was drunk or not was only relevant to the reliability of her evidence not the crime itself. on the other aspects of violence involved I think it has an impact on sentencing but quite rightly that impact is limited. Rape is rape.

as an aside, I'm a man btw and find the term mansplain very offensive. no idea why anyone fighting for equality would lower themselves to use it.

I inferred that the verdict came down to the erroneous belief that if sex happens with someone a woman knows she is likely to have consented.

However when I did jury service on a rape trial, the jury concluded a woman had consented to sex because she had gone to a hotel room drunk with a man that she did not know. I'm not sure the general population is very sophisticated when it comes to men, women, hotel rooms and alcohol...

What did it for Evans was the fact of the text, that he arrived with the sole purposed of having sex, and that she did not know him.

But basically, if she was too drunk to be capable of consent to Evans, then she was too drunk to consent to both.

Glad you find FWR helpful!

"as an aside, I'm a man btw and find the term mansplain very offensive. no idea why anyone fighting for equality would lower themselves to use it."

I take mansplain to mean "a patronising explanation by a man to a woman regarding a problem that affects women which she understands anyway and indeed has more lived experience of than said man"

What does it mean to you?

"why sentencing needs to be flexible to the circumstances of the crime. "

I'm not sure I follow this wrt this case?

Or rather she's more likely to have consented than with a stranger...^^

HampshireBoy there are NOT different degrees of rape.

If I steal your wallet and hit you over the head at the same time, I have committed both theft and assault.

If I don't hit you over the head, I have still stolen your wallet and I am still a thief.

Or would you argue there are "degrees of theft" too? Either way, you have had your wallet stolen.

Rape with assault is charged as two crimes. Rape and assault. Rape without assault is still rape. If you are found guilty of rape, you are a rapist.

Rape is rape my friend. Penetrating without consent. It is a single crime, no degrees therein.