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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

I have changed, I love you, will do anything to keep us together!!

155 replies

Funnyfishface · 09/10/2014 07:59

Married 25 years. 2 grown up DS. Couples counselling 16 months.
Dh is controlling, EA, VA etc.
4 weeks ago I told him that I couldn't go on like this anymore. I care for him but I'm falling out of love with him.
He is in complete denial. And for the last 4 weeks I have the 'changed man', he says he loves me. He has seen the error of his ways and will do anything to keep us together.
Of course we have been here hundreds of times and each time I get reeked back in.
How do I know for sure that THIS time could be different.

I have seen a solicitor, I have spoken to DS and my family. Lots of RL support. No financial worries.
It's just that dilemma - what If this time he means it. My head is saying there is no way he can keep this going. But I'm surprised it's lasted 4 weeks.

Any advice welcome.

OP posts:
Anniegetyourgun · 09/10/2014 19:01

Bear in mind that "investing" in a marriage is not the same as paying money into a deposit box, where if you throw away the key you lose everything inside it. You lived those years, they happened and nothing can make them un-happen. You can't withdraw them and use them again either - they're spent, whether well or badly (my guess is some of each, and you did get your two DSs from it so it wasn't an overall loss). The true equivalent of money in the bank is the future, not the past - the years you have yet to spend. How do you intend to use them?

Anyway, no, he's not going to change fundamentally, and you know it really.

AnyFucker · 09/10/2014 19:05

Annie, I love your analogy of what true "investment" in a marriage actually means

and in my own words, it does not mean putting up with shit just for the sake of it

Anniegetyourgun · 09/10/2014 19:16

Quite so - and "for better, for worse" does not mean "however badly one of us decides to behave"!

Original poster
Funnyfishface · 09/10/2014 20:22

Thank you all for taking the time to reply.
I came home from work tonight to be told that he has taken steps to arrange anger management counselling. This is a new tactic.

No I don't respect him.
I care for him and feel sorry that he didn't want to change until now.
In his head we only haven't been getting on for a short period of time. But I have been keeping a journal. It makes very interesting reading.

I suffered from extreme anxiety for 3 years and am on medication. In the last year I have got so much better, got myself a job and really feel like I have turned a corner.

I'm scared of being set back.

OP posts:
EhricLovesTheBhrothers · 09/10/2014 20:31

If you stay with him you will never be fully the person you have the potential to be. He's been an abuser for 25 years and you think that 4 weeks of best behaviour means he's permanently changed? Oh please, don't fall for it. He's hoovering you back in, and when you have dropped all your guards and believe he's really changed he will revert right back to being a horrible bastard.
Anger management doesn't work with abusers by the way. It's not an anger problem, it's an abuse problem.

helpmekeepstrong · 09/10/2014 21:05

Ehric is right. Abusers don't have an anger problem and they don't need 'anger management'. They are quite well in control of themselves while they are controlling you. They may exhibit anger and rage to intimidate you, but they are well aware of what they are doing. Keep reading and writing your journal. Make plans for a better life, not with him. Even when you have gone, he will not accept responsibility for your leaving - he will be unable to recognise what he has done, which is why he will be unable to change.

temporaryusername · 09/10/2014 21:12

It sounds like you have done so well and are on the brink of a much happier and better future. Don't let him spoil it.

TortoiseUpATreeAgain · 09/10/2014 21:24

Does he function well at work? With his family and his friends? Then it's not an anger management problem, it's an abuse problem, and an anger management course will achieve absolutely nothing.

Original poster
Funnyfishface · 09/10/2014 23:37

No I don't think that four weeks of good behaviour means that he has changed.
I am irritated and cross that it takes me to say ' it's over' for him to think about changing.
He says he feels differently now. He realises that it's me he wants. He can't think of a life without me.
In truth I don't think he is capable of loving me in the way I need to be loved. He confuses love with lust. He wants a trophy wife.

I'm sad that I can't make it work.

OP posts:
helpmekeepstrong · 10/10/2014 00:05

In the Freedom Programme, your husband would now be acting the role of The Persuader. He is not original in this. Abusers have patterns of behaviour and even use exactly the same words and phrases as each other in given situations. It's astonishing but true. Have you read the Freedom Programme book? Your husband's latest reaction is well documented in it.
Don't be sad. No one can make it work with an abuser unless they are prepared to live in complete obedience... and even that won't save you some days.

BertieBotts · 10/10/2014 00:11

It's a total script, they say the same thing.

It's always so vague as well. "I'll do anything" "I'll be better" "I've changed"

Ask him for details of what he will do, how he has changed. He won't be able to tell you because he doesn't know what you actually want him to do, because it wouldn't ever occur to him to behave in that way.

Lweji · 10/10/2014 00:46

As I was reading the thread title, my thoughts were bullshit.

What if he does change? I suspect you'll always be thinking when he's going to relapse.

How long to give? He will be thinking the same. How long he can keep it going before going back to what he has always done.

If you don't have the same feelings for him as you did, if you can't trust him, then you don't have to stay.

You can go just because you want to.

And if 25 years are too long to invest, what about another 25 year of misery?

Adarajames · 10/10/2014 02:42

Don't feel sad that you can't make it work, HE is the one making it not work, you've done everything in your power, and far beyond what you ever should've been expected to in an attempt to make it work (such as ensuring not to 'annoy' him so he isn't crush etc etc.

And have you considered that your anxiety us a result from having to do that for do long? Making him go and having your own life, safe from his evil abusing May just be the 'cure' you need for your anxiety!

All strength and support to you x

Original poster
Funnyfishface · 10/10/2014 03:01

Wide awake mulling things over. Driving myself crazy with all the what ifs.

I know that you are all right. His behaviour now is the absolute extreme to his 'normal'
He said to me tonight that he was thinking of us renewing our wedding vows.
I don't get it.
How did he go from me saying I have had enough and think we should separate to him thinking I would want to renew our vows.m
Madness.

OP posts:
temporaryusername · 10/10/2014 03:23

Oh, so he's remembered the vows then - first time in 25 years by the sound of it. He obviously thinks a 'gesture' will win you over, and be easier for him than actual day to day change. Remember that if a magical being descended from the sky and cast a spell on him, turning him into the most adoring and gentle supportive man ever, you still wouldn't have to make it work. You could still say, no - he looks too much like the man who caused me years of misery and I don't want that reminder.

yougotafriend · 10/10/2014 04:59

I was in your situation in June. I agreed to one more 'one more chance'. His act lasted less than 3 months (less really but as we were both supposedly trying harder I'd ignored some of the lower level stuff).

We're splitting anyway, nothing he can say will change my mind - not that he's trying! I could waste time regretting that I didn't leave sooner but I think I obviously wasn't ready, I am now.

I was 25 when we met, I'm 48 now, its the realisation that I've spent almost half my life apologising for who I am that gives me strength.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/10/2014 07:37

Bullies do whatever it takes to get their own way. Whether they're being intimidating or obsequious, it's all to the same ends. 'Renewing vows' probably means he thinks you can be bought off with a party and some jewellery. 'Arranging anger management' is utterly meaningless.

If you really want to see the real him.... lie. Play him at his own game. Tell him you've changed your mind and you won't be divorcing him just yet. He'll relax and all the old behaviour will magically spring to the surface.

Hissy · 10/10/2014 07:41

it's all bollocks love, he's had 25 years to be a 'nice bloke' and he can't do it.

stay strong, get out. you'll never, ever regret it!

Original poster
Funnyfishface · 10/10/2014 08:04

Cogito - if you really want to see the real him ...lie. Play him at his own game.... Old behaviour will spring to the surface . This makes me smile haha.

In my heart I do know its bollocks. I have been saying the same things to my friends for the last five years.
And I am surprised at my own strength. Seeing the solicitor etc.

He is changing tactics now tho. He all of a sudden wants to be best mates with both our DS. Where he is usually jealous of them.

OP posts:
CogitoErgoSometimes · 10/10/2014 08:19

I think you're getting strength from your contempt for him. Like the Boggart in the Harry Potter books. For 25 years he's been coming out of that cabinet looking like an angry bastard and keeping you on the back foot. And now he's this pathetic creature, promising the earth and pretending to be Dad of the Year. 'Riddikulus!'

Meerka · 10/10/2014 08:20

funny, do protect your vital paperwork and try to make sure you have some money of your own. Abusive men don't give up without a fight and they aren't usually clean fighters. When he realises you're serious, there's a good chance he'll get very nasty financially or in other ways.

Quitelikely · 10/10/2014 08:27

Jealous of the children! What a disgrace. God knows what your marriage has taught them about relationships.

Just end it. Yes it's nice to be wanted but not just by any asshole. Tell him he's burnt his bridges. Go. Be free

Dinnaeknowshitfromclay · 10/10/2014 09:37

One of you has to be the sensible adult that can see the situation for what it is and make the change. It's not going to be him though so it must be you.
Imagine something major like his getting ill and you need to nurse him/care for him long term. Imagine how that would make you feel. If it's anything 'less' than, 'I would do it in a heartbeat, I adore the man', get out now before the imagined becomes the reality or something equal to it. Some times it takes a cliché to realise the truth.
Keep going with the divorce. If you are legally free of him but feel you want to stay, stay as partners but at least divorced you will have options.

Lweji · 10/10/2014 11:00

Another way to see the real him is to keep to your decision of leaving. He'll try everything on the script, including being nasty when being nice doesn't convince you.
Make sure you protect yourself indeed.

thenamehaschanged · 10/10/2014 12:33

Anger Management is futile and him just stalling for time. It's not an anger problem, it's an attitude problem and his attitude comes from all of his learned beliefs. He believes he needs to keep his wife under control by using varying abusive techniques - it's not just the nasty him that's abusive, it's the nice him too - it's all control.

I agree with Dinnae - project forward 10 or 20 years into the future and you have stayed - and you end up needing to be his carer. Nah, not me, some other silly bitch can wipe H's arse for him while he bollocks her that she's not doing it right haha!!

Good luck!!