DP and his job situation...I think I might kill him

[Eastie77]

Thought about a NC as I have complained about DP in the past and received a lot of useful advice. I have taken it on board. But this is a new issue.

I need help managing DP and getting him to take this (un)employment situation seriously.

The background is he is from Southern Europe, an area of high unemployment where a lot of young people do not have their first real job until they are mid-20s. He has never quite understood the working culture in the UK. He tells me that the fact that I had a job working PT when I was 17 is tantamount to child abuse and what a pity I missed out on the lovely childhood he had spending every day on the beach.

So: he was suspended from his job on full pay in June. This wasn't totally unexpected as there had been ongoing issues with his performance for over a year and he had in fact been advised by a manager last year that he was considered incompetent and should look for another job. The grounds for his suspension were numerous as there were several complaints from one of his clients about the quality of his work. He suspension lasted around 3 months (long investigation) and during this time, despite knowing he would likely end up getting the sack, he did zero to find a new job. This was because he'd had enough of working for 'the man' and said if he was sacked he would take his employer to court and win a massive pay out. Cloud cuckoo land.

He was dismissed, as expected, and after taking legal advice he finally accepted the mega payout was not going to materialise and he would have to look for a new job. He then VERY reluctantly produced an atrocious CV which he haphazardly sent to a few agencies. When none of the agencies replied he said with barely concealed glee "well, that's a pity but at least I can look after DD on Fridays (our CM only works Mon-Thurs so we had previoulsy had to juggle her childcare arrangements on that day). He completely missed the point that we NEED 2 incomes to stay afloat.

I decided to re-do the CV for him. It was like getting blood out of stone just to get basic information such as his education and list of his responsibilities in his previous jobs etc. He was irritated and annoyed when I asked him a few basic questions. In short, I spent an entire day reworking the CV, creating a LinkedIn profile (of course he's 'never heard of LinkedIn') and sending off applications while he watched TV. He also decided that it was an optimal time to pursue his interest in alternative health remedies and signed up to an expensive part time distance course. I wouldn't have bothered making all this effort but as said we need his income.

After reworking the CV he was invited to about 8 interviews in the space of just 2 weeks and was offered a job last month. When he received the offer he was sullen and downcast as going back into the workforce would be a 'nightmare' and he would once again be caught up in the capitalist rat-race working like a slave etc.

Just to re-iterate he spent June, July and August at home relaxing while I worked FT and DD was at the childminder. We also have a cleaner so he doesn't do much housework either.

After 3 days in the new job he came home and complained that he was being worked too hard and asked to do dangerous jobs (he works in building maintenance). These were the same complaints he had about the job he was sacked from and from what I can gather he considers being asked to climb a ladder 'dangerous'. Finally he said he'd have to get a new job as he hated this new one so much. He arranged interviews via a few agencies. While I would ordinarily have been pleased with him taking some initiative, the problem was he taking time off his new job to attend the interviews as he apparently couldn't arrange them before or after work.

In the space of 3 weeks he took the equivalent of 5 or 6 days off to go to these interviews. Eventually his new manager (who works from a different location) called him at home one day to discuss his concerns over DP's attendance, timekeeping and general attitude. The new manager actually seemed to really like DP and said that he wanted to find a compromise to keep him happy. He therefore proposed a new, mobile role which would involve DP driving to different sites but the jobs he'd be carrying out would be more in keeping with the kind of things he wanted to do rather than the 'dangerous' tasks he was performing. DP's reponse? "Thanks but I don't like driving around too much as I get dizzy." I don't know if this is true or not, he has never mentioned dizziness before when driving.

The manager persuaded DP to nevertheless try the new role and a brand new van was delivered to our flat a couple of days later which DP was to use to drive to carry out his jobs. The first job he was assigned was at an airport about 1 hr drive from our place. The hours were 8am-5pm. DP woke up on the day and declared that he would not drive to the airport as he did not have a Satnav and was not sure how to get there. I offered him the use of one of Smartphones which has a map facility (I basically use it as a Sat Nav) and he said no as he is not good with technology. He therefore took the train and arrived 1.5 hours late.

On day 2 he took the train again and then took the afternoon off to attend yet another job interview.

On day 3 he once again refused to drive so arrived late and then left the airport site at 3pm without telling anyone as "it takes me 2 hours to get home so if I leave at 5pm I won't get home until 7pm and I am not paid from 5pm-7pm".

On day 4 I arrived home to find out he had been sacked. He had evidently exhausted the goodwill of even the manager who had tried to help him.

So here we are. He has not heard back from any of the interviews he attended so he has basically probably lost this job for nothing. He is TOTALLY unconcerned and said is 'relishing' the time off so that he can catch up with his studies and spend quality time with DD. When I ask how he proposes we pay our bills at the end of this month, and indeed how he intends to pay for the course which has a monthly fee of £300, he tutted and replied "They can't take what we don't have. If I'm chucked off the course for non-payment I will enrol again next month. Tell the childminder we will have to reduce DD's hours. You need to learn to relax" And then he offered me a homeopathic remedy to calm me down.

I feel like I need an intervention because I have a young child and so do not want to end up in jail but I feel like I might want to kill him. But maybe I do need to breathe and relax. I'm hoping one of the multiple interviews turns into a job offer. I just cannot take the laid back 'que sera, sera' attitude.

Thank you if you've got this far. No-one needs to reply really. I just needed to get this off my chest and feel so much better now I've written it all down.
Off to drink some
Eastie

As for the gold-digging comments..well, to be honest in the time we have been together I don’t think he has purchased one item of clothing or any kind of luxury item for himself and he has certainly never asked me to buy him anything or asked for money. He is probably the least materialistic person I know. He doesn’t spend money on himself (apart from food shopping) and probably goes out with friends once every 3 months or so. His idea of a good night is watching a DVD with a pizza and glass of coke as he doesn’t drink either. But I totally agreee he is basically freeloading right now in the sense that he is cannot contributing financially

arghh! I want to scream at you and shake you - you are still making excuses for him. We aren't talking about buying clothes when we call him a cocklodger. He has a roof over his head, his electricity provided for him, his council tax covered, he has hot water to wash in, he has nice living accomodation provided. His food is paid for by you. All his main living bills are covered by you and he refuses to work and do what is required to hold down a job. You are starting to look thick OP.

But she's in luuuuurve

In effect, he's abdicated any responsibility for the financial responsibility of your life together. He just gives up working when he feels like it because of some specious reason (driving a van makes him dizzy, for fuck sake???) or complains that his poor little soul could not take working in an office.

What about your soul? You are bearing full responsibility for everything. And THAT is why he's a cockfuckinglodger.

Op, he's already a sahd but one whose dd goes to a cm so he gets days all to himself.

It's like you've got two children to support.

And the cleaner ....what a lovely life he has....you could always pop to see a careers advisor and try to get him some lovely work experience doing something fun that won't make him dizzy or get dust in his eyes.

Bless him

Or endanger his soul.

Also (I'll shut up in a minute) if he keeps getting sacked or leaving jobs because of a paper-cut or whatever, there will come a time when no-one wants to employ him. This may not matter if he's self-employed but given his lack of motivation, I can't see the self-employment being a roaring success. He will just sit at home waiting for clients to find him.

Do you want to be venting on here in 5 years time?

No I don't want to be here in 5 years time. That's why I gave him a deadline of 30 days to find a job!

We had The Talk yesterday. Laid out my plan. He got a bit upset but I think he realised how serious I am. By some kind of cosmic alignment of the stars, Foxtons posted a letter through the door yesterday in which they advertised their letting services along with a bit of blurb to the homeowner about there being high demand for properties to let in the area etc. So I re-iterated to DP that it would be very easy for me to carry out my Plan B.

He reminded me that he had a second round interview for a job today and said it was unfair I had put all this pressure on him on eve of the interview as he will now go into it with the 'threat of eviction' looming over him. He then sat on the sofa sipping some kind of bicarbonate soda mixture as my threat had caused acidity in his stomach . I ignored him and carried on with my evening.

This morning he seemed brighter and said he would try his best. I replied that regardless of how hard he thinks he has tried he needs a job offer within the month.

He is very unsuited to Building Services and he knows it. I think the last job he took had a fancy title but turned out to basically be maintenance work. He then got into a comfort zone and the hours suited him so he just stayed. He did do the odd bit of language tutoring and coached a friend's child for GCSE Italian. It would be a good side gig but he is against exams in principle as they unfairly categorize children and I overheard him telling the child that it didn't matter if he passed or failed so I don't think he's suited to teaching (children anyway).

I won't labour the point about the Southern European thing except to say I'm surprised at the poster whose Italian friends all had jobs at 16/17. I've honestly generally found it's quite unusual for young people from that region to start work at that age. I interview young graduates from around Europe for roles at my company and the ones from Spain, Italy are often mid-20s highly educated with e.g. a Masters degree, a couple of internships but def. no work experience in their teens. To note I know there are millions of hard working, industrious people from that region. DP just isn't one of them!

youmedancing agree about the beekeeping. Who doesn't like a pot of home made honey? Seriously, the point I was making was that he can study homeopathy, mandarin, astronomy..really doesn't bother me either way but he has to work and contribute to the household while he pursues his personal interests. I doubt his studies will result in him starting a successful business but any negative comments I make is perceived as lack of support so I generally don't say anything.

Anyfucker - re. the first thread I wrote back when I was pregnant, yes DP's behaviour was ridiculous specifically with regard to my health and the baby. Many people suggested on that thread he had some kind of health anxiety issue which he eventually admitted was probably true (linked to his parents untimely death). Anyway point is that I put my foot down and the nonsense over DD not getting vaccinated etc did not happen and I went ahead and got her the jabs. He just accepted it. He is opinionated and spouts a lot of nonsense but does listen if he thinks I am very angry. I just don't get angry very often. Maybe I should!

He really is a precious little soldier isn't he? Sipping his thing for his acid tummy that YOU CAUSED.

My goodness me, he has some out there opinions doesn't he... against exams in principle? And yet he has degrees himself. What a shame he can't do italian tutoring as a sideline to tide him over until he does actually find a job.

Is there anything about work he actually does like or agree with?

So, in order to get reasonable behaviour out of him, you have to bring out the Big Guns?

That must be utterly exhausting

Is it worth it ? Really ?

Why do you want an adult child? Really? What is he adding to your life?

I should think he is panicking and stressed. His lovely lazy lifestyle propped up by you looks a bit shaky. If he doesn't get the job it will be your fault for stressing him so he didn't look good during the interview.

If he does get it, then it will only be a matter of time before he is sacked or leaves and again, somehow it will be your fault. Pressure, making him do a job not suited to the likes of him, he sounds very entitled. ( arrogant) did you mistake self assurance for arrogance? Common mistake and I've made it myself. He does sound a bit of a gigalo actually.

Quite shocked he is passing on his don't care attitude to children he is being paid to coach. He doesn't care does he?

It depends really - you either want a dh who pulls weight, an equal team player and want the same things and are both prepared to work for them. Or you pay for everything and he looks nice and tells you how to live. Or he sulks.

Why not an office? What's the point of all the degrees then? Was he at uni to avoid work?

A friend of mine had one of these. She made a huge fuss in the end and he was v contrite. Whilst he looked for someone richer, got her pregnant and moved out. He did it again too, to that one. He looks lovely mind you. Thinks he's master of the universe of course, but without that outlook he might feel guilt and he doesn't.

Christ he sounds like a full time job in himself, never mind proper paid work.

No relationship should be this much hard work, it really shouldnt.

Eastie77, I think you've got a Lost Boy.

I know a couple of men like this, and they never change. One of them is now in his early 50s and no job "fulfils him" or makes him happy -- even though he has done jobs that some men would pull their teeth out to do (jungle exploration etc).

What I have noticed with it is that these chaps view their jobs and careers as the expression of their entire identity; what they do for work is "who they are" .. so work needs to fit their personalities and beliefs exactly.

This approach also seems to be connected to a strange, almost mystical notion that if they find the "right" profession, work will be incredibly easy for them, they will be able to achieve great things without much effort, money will suddenly rain from the skies, and they will socially and culturally ascend to some vitally important and respected position in society.

It is the application of this in reverse that causes the problem: "if my job is hard work and I am not recognised for my genius, then it must be because this path is not my true destiny."

And ... it gets worse as they get older. I think this is because doing "here and there" jobs when they are young can be psychologically excused as a youthful stop-gap or "gaining experience of different aspects of human existence" . When they age though, the solidity of those excuses weakens; they know, deep inside, they should have got it together by now.

In the cases I know, both men are highly intelligent and very unique and were expected by almost everyone to "do great things".

Of course, when the great things failed to turn up ...

OP, I was going to ask about language tutoring. Speaking English and other languages he would probably find it quite easy to get work at a language school, especially in London. Also, at the moment many shops will be looking at taking on temporary extra retail staff to cover the Christmas period. Again, in London this is a huge potential number of jobs. You should tell him that he should go out with some CVs so that he can take a retail job to cover the period while he is job hunting. After all, if you do move into your parents he will have to cover his own living costs. If he gets a shop assistant role he would be able to get a room in a flatshare.

With a good degree but particularly the three languages there ought to be something niche he could do that will be better paid and physically less strain than the jobs above. If he is always going to have a moral objection that is a different thing, but moral objections to exams or offices are a luxury based on his rent being paid by someone who took exams and works in an office. As I said before, if he has significant physical or mental problems then that would change some of the advice here, but you've not alluded to any.

Worksailhours – you describe many aspects of DP’s character very well. I believe he now thinks the homeopathy thing is his real calling. He does have a high opinion of himself.

Rousette I suppose he could tutor people who just want to learn the language for holidays, leisure etc. He is apparently against exams as he thinks children who fail them are then unfairly marked as stupid. The irony is he has sat and passed several himself. He often doesn’t apply his own logic to himself. Office work is a no-no for him. If I complain about a bad day at work a lecture ensues about the fact that we are not made to spend hours sitting at desks under artificial light as part of the capitalist machinery etc and I am destroying my Chi whatever that is. No, I have no recollection of him ever making a positive comment about work.

I cannot wait to get home and find out how the interview went, yes I’m being sarcastic. Anyway, the clock is ticking on the 30 day deadline. Thank you for all the input.

temporaryusername - I printed 10 copies of his CV yesterday and gave them to him to hand out to shops looking for temp staff. I mentioned up-thread that there are dozens of shops in our area currently recruiting, thank you for the suggestion. He can get a retail job in a week or two if he puts his mind to it, of that I have no doubt.

He will be homeless if my Plan B goes ahead. None of his (few) friends in London will put up with him and even flat shares are expensive. I believe this will spur him on to get a job.

a lecture ensues about the fact that we are not made to spend hours sitting at desks under artificial light as part of the capitalist machinery etc and I am destroying my Chi

He sounds like a poorly written character in a sitcom.

I suppose this would be a bad time to say that homeopathy is complete nonsense? "So a dilution of 200C would mean that one gram of a substance had been diluted within 100 grams of water, with the process repeated 200 times. At this dilution not a single molecule of the original substance remains. Most homeopathic pills are made entirely of sugar. However, the pills are supposed to retain a "memory" of the original substance."

www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/04/economist-explains

I don't have time to read past the first page but please please please don't let him do the childcare. You'll end up paying him and housing him as a SAHD and losing your child when you have eventually had enough of his laziness and try to split up

Ah, sorry, I missed that you'd already mentioned that. You're right though, they are snapping them up at this time of year and temporary work is easier to get. Being Italian he should be perfect for clothes/shoes retail since people in Britain seem to associate being Italian with having an innate understanding of style that we can only hope to emulate .

Degrees in 3 languages, and he can't write his own CV in any of them

That might be too demeaning.

how did the 2nd interview go ?