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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

*Amended* Please help me discuss this with DH without having a nasty row

110 replies

SilverStrand · 10/09/2014 12:43

apologies i had to amend a couple of details in this and repost as was worried about being identified.

This is going to sound like a real first world problem, but there is a lot going on in our relationship at the moment which is making me more anxious about this issue than i normally would be.??

Dh and i have had a bad summer with some awful rows. We have had counselling in the past, (Relate - didn't find it helpful, we ended up resolving our own issues at that stage). Dh has come round a lot in the last few weeks and we are thinking of going away for a night in October if my bro and sis in law can look after our kids.??I would say we are not out of the woods yet, but we are at least working on it.

??The problem is that i know my dh is about to broach something with me, about a Rugby weekend away to Rome next March with some business associates of his and their wives/partners.??He will want to go on this weekend and will expect me to agree to it.

The issue i have is that i went away with this same group of people last March. It was two nights in Paris for a six nations match. Dh and i live 3 hours from the airport they fly from and had to take an extra night to stay over at the airport hotel the night before, then coming home, our flight was delayed and we ended up driving the 3 hours home at around 11 at night, and his poor parent had to wait up for us as they were looking after the kids.??

The weekend itself was pretty much a 48hour drinking session albeit in a posh hotel and with corporate hospitality for the match. We hardly got any time to ourselves, as soon as breakfast was over there was about an hour of free time before we reconvened in the bar for more drinks before the match, or before flight home.

They were all drinking champagne in the executive lounge at 9am on the way over. I am in NO way judging these folk, they are all nice people, and i love a drink myself, but it was so non stop it was actually oppressive and too much of a good thing.??

Also all bar one of the other couples were/are very very wealthy and there was a lot of talk of yachts and holiday homes in Portugal that i couldn't really relate to.

??Finally they are all in their mid fifties or older with grown up children and its not a big deal for them to skip off for a weekend here and there, and they do, which is great for them, but we have younger kids, the youngest is 5 and oldest 12, and it is a huge effort to get away, so much preparation has to be done, so many favours called in, that i would far rather make that sort of effort for a weekend away either just with my dh, or with a couple that we are really friendly with as opposed to this group of people who are really nice and that, but i have very little in common with.??

If i try and explain all this to my dh, he will sigh, and tell me i always focus on the negative and never want to try anything new, and that the fall out from me not wanting to go or not going, will be such that he probably won't want to go away anywhere with my on my own anyway, as he will be so pissed off about us missing out on this trip. (he can't go on his own, though i wouldnt mind it he did as its really a couples trip.)

There is a big part of him that is hugely flattered to be asked to join these people as we are not in their league in terms of income, but they seem to enjoy our company so want us there. Dh will be afraid to been seen to snub the invitation and will worry that we won't be asked away again.

??But i think its stupid to spend all that money (£3000 not inc spending money) on something I'm not that keen to do. I don't want to spend a weekend like that, and i told dh that last year on our way home when he was speculating as to whether we would be asked again on the next trip, i would be prepared to go maybe every 2 or 3 years but not every year.??Is this unreasonable and how do i put my point across assertively and clearly without having a row?

OP posts:
KittiesInsane · 10/09/2014 13:08

Sorry, but...

£3000 for a WEEKEND?

He's bonkers. Hope that's tactful enough?

LIZS · 10/09/2014 13:18

Fail to see how an expensive corporate weekend is a good way to repair a relationship. If you need a break it shouldn't be with other business associates. Yes it might be fun and different and maybe spending 3k isn't an issue for you but I would prefer other activities and breaks on which to spend that money and time, and I bet you could too.

Phalenopsis · 10/09/2014 13:26

Apologies if I've got the wrong end of the stick here, but I'm concerned about the fact that you want advice on how to talk to this man without having a row. Why can't you just say, "this holiday is costing a lot of money, it'll be full of piss heads (yes, that's the word I'd use) and I'd rather we didn't go."

Why can't you say that to him? He's your husband, you should be able to voice an opinion without having to choose your words so carefully and without it escalating into a 'massive row'. Is he a sulker? If so, let him sulk.

FWIW, I wouldn't want to go either, regardless of the cost. Drinking all day isn't my idea of a break.

petalsandstars · 10/09/2014 13:39

You can have a family holiday for that cost. If he would prioritise this group over you and your feelings then I think you have problems that aren't going away.

PhoebeMcPeePee · 10/09/2014 13:50

I'd tell him to go on his own or better still remind him of your conversation on the last trip about going alternate years & suggest a weekend for the two of you instead.

Iggly · 10/09/2014 13:55

The money alone would be a good reason unless you're awash with cash.

Insane.

VanitasVanitatum · 10/09/2014 13:57

I'm guessing he feels that work wise, it's important to keep in with this group. It doesn't sound like you have great communications though, or that he has respect for your feelings really.

That is a lot of money, presumably in his opinion worth it and in yours not. Difficult when you both feel you are in the right, however you shouldn't feel like you can't discuss it, or that he will be little you or your opinions, which it sounds like he will.

Manipulate of him to say he wouldn't feel like going away with you, if he would say that.

I would start out by showing that you understand why it matters to him, but then setting out your case on costs and babysitting calmly and factually.

SilverStrand · 10/09/2014 21:53

My DH will say that we can afford this amount, and still have a good family holiday too. I have no reason to disbelieve him, he is self employed and has always been quite sensible and we have always lived within our means. Though of course it often seems to me that we can afford to do the things he wants to do, but when i want to say, get work done in the house, he will ask me if i think money grows on trees!

He claims he can get VAT back on these sorts of trips through the business, but even with that it is still a lot of money spent, and a lot of effort made, for something i am not at all pushed about doing every single year, even then fact alone of feeling obliged to accept this invitation every bloody year feels oppressive enough in itself.

He has had, and will continue to have nights out, or nights away from time to time with this group of men, so its not like i am taking us out of that loop by not going on this one trip, and i would be prepared to make the effort every two or three years if it suits us as we have a very busy house.

Sadly my dh does have a bit of a self esteem issue, though he does genuinely really enjoy these peoples company, (hard not to when they are really nice people) but even that fact that he is so flattered by their including us annoys me, as i feel we are all equal, apart from our income and lifestyles.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 10/09/2014 21:57

did you post about this back then ? Seems familiar.

scallopsrgreat · 10/09/2014 21:59

I asked this on your other thread but why is the burden of sorting out childcare and calling favours left to you if he is the one wanting to go on the weekend? It sounds like an enormous amount of hassle for something you don't want to do. Surely he should do it if this weekend means that much to him?

SilverStrand · 10/09/2014 22:24

Scallop I am SAHM so i tend to manage childcare cover and that sort of thing when we are going away but actually DH is good t helping with that, and makes the necessary calls and arrangements to help sort the kids extra curric tuff, who drives them to training, matches that sort of thing. Thats not an issue for me at all. But we do live in a fairly remote area and the nearest airport has a very limited amount of places it flies to so we tend to have to go to a city 3 hours drive from home to get to a lot of european destinations. This group of people live an hour close to this airport than we do, so can usually hire a bus to take them to this city at the crack of dawn whereas we (to avoid having to get up at 4am, and wed have to pay a babysitter to be there from the night before anyway if we are leaving in middle of night) tend to try and go the airport late the night before and therefore not have to drive 3 hours at that time of the morning.

Anyfucker i don't think have ever posted about this before at all no.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 10/09/2014 22:25

ok, fair enough

there has been a similar scenario then. No matter.

Cabrinha · 10/09/2014 22:25

I think you're a little bit looking for reasons to dislike it. How much preparation does it really take? For me, it'd be one phone call to grandparents, and if they're willing, then just the time it takes to fill a weekend bag for them. The 12yo can do that themselves.

Also the flight delay - a pity, but just bad luck. Why did the parents have to wait up? You picked the kids up at 02:00? Is it cos they're not local and you had to carry on the journey?

If you want to go, you have til March and you can get your husband to sort out the kids arrangements.

All that feels like excuses. I think you need to understand WHY you don't want to go.

It's not cost - I'm a bit Hmm that you seem to leave the money side of things to him. Or are forced to. What's this about money not growing on trees? Is this more an issue of you not being happy at your respective financial control?

You're obviously irritated by his hero worshipping (maybe too strong a phrase) this crowd.

Do you really not want to go? If it's more that you don't want to have that as your only weekend, I'd broach it with him.
Bring it up first. "You know the pisshead weekend and how we said we'd go every other year? I think you want to go in March. It would be fun... but I'm concerned it'll cash in our babysitting chips, and I want a weekend for us. What is the chance of PIL doing a weekend babysitting gig next month and in March?"

But it does sound like there are other issues.

PatriciaHolm · 10/09/2014 22:28

You "have no reason to disbelieve him" when it comes to finances? Do you not know how much money you have, how much money the household brings in? It's family money, not his to dispense as his wishes.

The trip sounds like a torment, especially if these people aren't really your friends.

Squidstirfry · 10/09/2014 23:05

Can you compromise somehiw? Ie go on the trip but instead if joining in with the drinking group immediately and continually, could you arrange some nice coupley things just the 2 if u? Then join the group for some of it?

SilverStrand · 10/09/2014 23:06

Cabrinha the grandparents, (my PILS) don't look after the kids when we go away, they are too elderly, have their own health complaints. They kindly agreed to step in and babysit from 9pm till after midnight because our flight had been delayed and the childminder we had paid to mind the kids for the weekend had to go home as planned at that time, as she had a work shift that night. When we go away we have to pay someone to mind our kids, we can't call on the grandparents for that, (mine live in another country so thats not an option.)

I have a fair idea of our finances and what we can and can't afford, but not down to the last penny. When i say i have no reason to disbelieve him, i mean in all the 19 years we have been together, my dh has always handled money very sensibly, we rarely put anything on the credit card unless its an internet purchase where you have to use VISA or whatever. If we can't afford it we don't do it.

But that said, his business is in a very healthy position and he is in the lucky position of being able to afford most of the things he wants to do, (and all of the things i want to do, which are usually house related, much as he might moan about the cost.) what annoys me is he will moan about the cost of a painter to paint a few rooms, yet is happy to fund a drinking weekend out of the business, simply because its good fun.

I have nothing against fun, i just wish that we could spend money either having fun with our actual friends, or even with each other something he doesn't seem to prioritise, esp at this tricky point in our marriage

OP posts:
DeeDeeMe · 10/09/2014 23:06

3k for two nights in Paris but it's corporate?

Smells like shit to me Hun.

SilverStrand · 10/09/2014 23:07

squid thats what i had hoped to do on the paris trip last march, but it proved impossible. My dh felt obliged to do everything that the group was doing and was afraid of offending by saying we were doing our own thing for a few hours, he didn't want to be rude!

OP posts:
ColdCottage · 10/09/2014 23:19

I would explain why you don't want to go, perhaps put it in a letter so you can get it just right and he will read it all.

Is suggest that he feels there is no way out of it that he accepts but you agree beforehand that you will be I'll and unable to go the day before. That way he can just book for him, they won't know, though waste of corporate seat (perhaps a friend can fill in last minute) and you don't have to pull in favours etc.

In return suggest something that you know he will love as much as you. Maybe a family trip to New Zealand with rugby tickets over there which you can take the children to as well. Put together some ideas and images to spark his imagination.

Also when you write it, don't use words which blame him, instead just explain how it makes you feel.

Good luck.

kickassangel · 10/09/2014 23:31

OK - so. If you say no, or that you're not sure, it will result in an argument, ie.e you can't disagree without him getting annoyed.
he prioritises what other people want over what you want, both in short term, whether to miss a drinking session scenario, and also in respect of taking care of the house or going out drinking.
he's over-awed by these people, quite possibly because of how much money they have
if you don't do what he says he'll use emotional blackmail to bully you inot accepting what he wants, or to punish you.

I would say that the weekend away for the two of you should only included discussions and bring up these issues (not the March dates, but how you feel he puts impressing others and going our drinking ahead of family/couple needs). If he can't discuss these issues in the abstract, you have no chance of discussing the weekend.

It isn't the Paris trip, so much as the way he gets what he wants and tells you off/sulks if you try to get what 'you' (ie the house/kids/you) want.

SilverStrand · 10/09/2014 23:33

Thank you that is good advice, I could suggest that he agrees for us to go, on the understanding that I actually go, then if I become Ill at last minute he could go alone or bring another guy with him, it's certainly worth suggesting anyhow and would save face for him

OP posts:
SilverStrand · 10/09/2014 23:37

Kickass yes you have nailed it really. He is in awe of this group though he genuinely enjoys their company too. But yes, he has always worried more what others think of him before putting me and our marriage firstHmm

OP posts:
EverythingCounts · 10/09/2014 23:49

Get in first and say you want to go away just the two of you together at that time, to have quality time together. But I am Hmm at the notion that he clearly cares more about keeping in with his business contacts than he does about making you happy. You sound like you're afraid to say no to him, with you being the SAHM and him the big shot earner. Is that how it is?

ColdCottage · 11/09/2014 10:14

*Perhaps suggest not is suggest

Sorry just seen all my typos Shock

SilverStrand · 11/09/2014 10:38

Everything I don't feel scare of saying no to him because he is the earner, i suppose i dread saying no to him because of the ensuing conversation we will have around it, where he will be all disappointment, sigh, look all resigned, withdraw into himself, say things to me like i never want to do anything fun any more and am never prepared to try new things, (which is ironic, cos the trip to paris last march was a new thing that i was happy to try out, and the result of trying it out is that i firmly decided i didn't want it to be a yearly thing, and yet it appears now that it is expected that i go along with it every year) but he always throws that one at me in arguments that i never want to try new stuff, or that my first reaction to things is always negative.

We have had a lot of arguments over the last 3 months and i am just sick at the thought of the inevitable and tedious discussion this trip is likely to trigger, and such a discussion invariably ends up either in a row, or a sulk by him.

OP posts: