Decision made

[adorably2014]

I posted here in June. I can't seem to be able to link to my old thread. After a summer of ups and downs I have decided I don't want to be married to my husband anymore. He has no idea and now the children are at school again I have more time to plan.

My fear is that because what is happening is always in private, how can I possibly document all this and be believed in the divorce courts? For example this summer he had bought me two really expensive pieces of jewellery which he presented to me in front of the children as a kind of I love you gift, only for 5 days later to do the stuff that has made me decide to leave. So he will easily seem like the wronged man with a gold digger wife. I am also concerned what to say to the children when a split is initiated. I don't want them to know exactly as it would be too awful for them but then again is it going to be possible to protect from everything? I also worry that if I talk about what has been going on then my H could potentially be in trouble which I don't want, selfishly I just don't want to have to live with it anymore.

For the moment I am focusing on my course and work experience where I asked if there was possible paid employment. My boss said they were very busy and would probably have two projects I could help with in October and be paid for. I hope it materialises. In the meantime I am putting as much money as possible into my own account. My H has not got access to it but knows the account details. Is it OK do you think or should I set sth he knows nothing about. For choosing a solicitor is it best to take a WA solicitor or one of my own? I reckon my H will get someone really good and expensive so I need to make sure I have someone very very good.

I tried to find a counsellor before the school holidays but it wasn't that easy. I also found that talking about all the stuff in a way made me freeze and reflect so much that I couldn't act if that makes sense. I think when things are over I will then hopefully find the space to talk ... So for now I am trying to get on with practical stuff like following advice on getting paperwork together before contacting solicitors. My H has loads of paperwork. I know because I sometimes do his filing. There are share certificates, pension stuff etc... Do I need to copy everything? If so,does it need to be recent or can I take copies now even if I don't start anything in 6 months' time.
Sorry I sound like such a cold calculating b here. I am mostly terrified of putting the children through such an upheaval but then I keep reminding myself our eldest saw something was wrong with me during the holiday and didn't really believe the explanation that 'mummy is tired'.

Anyway apart from my few questions not sure entirely why I am posting, for support I guess and to update on previous thread after this long gap.

[chansondumatin]

Just read your thread. So glad you're taking positive steps to get out. Others with better advice will be along soon but I just wanted to say - don't let your pills out of your sight! Keep them on you at all times, spare packet in a secret place, another under lock and key if you have to, maybe another one at the office where he can't get at it... And think very seriously about a contraceptive injection.

[Scarletohello]

Well done for seeing a solicitor and glad you got some good advice. They sounded like they knew what they were talking about.

Well he's definitely feeling threatened by your independence which is why he wants to tie you down with another baby. Don't do it!
Agree with the above advice re pills or injection. Keep control of your body.

You're doing really well, one step at a time. You will get there. Keep posting here, we're all rooting for you.

And stay safe.

[adorably2014]

Twinklestein - thanks for explaining, I get it now. it makes sense. Does that mean that what I say to the GP (and later to a counsellor I am referred to) can be a court document then?

Yes he was blatant this weekend, very much so. I think Tipsy Trifle said he had a plan and she might well be right. He is desperate to book a weekend away for just us as it will soon be our 10th anniversary. He's also used his age as a reason for trying asap, and said we could get a night nanny so I could carry on as normal. He is away so much he doesn't really have any real idea of day to day with children, really. Anyway, he can say what he wants, there is no way I want another baby with him, Scarletohello. I did however speak the truth when I said I was happy to concentrate on school age children for a while. They need different things from babies and toddlers, equally enjoyable, but quite different and it's nice. But I was wary of mentioning my course/work experience again as a barrier to baby 3, although it's my biggest more practical reason, obviously.

The solicitor was very good I thought. I felt I could talk to her. Practical but also not unsympathetic. Telling me what next steps should be etc. I imagine they've seen all sorts but it was quite embarrassing being in floods of tears in her office. She got her assistant to bring me tissues and tea ...

I had seen the "friend" from my country before but I see she will definitely be no help. She thinks I misunderstand my H and when I told her about the early morning sex every day last week she thought it was fab he still loves me after all this time and I should make more of an effort. Made me both angry and sad so I kept quiet about my plans.

[Twinklestein]

I'm sorry your compatriot so didn't get it, I hope you have other friends to confide in.

As regards evidence, you still have medical confidentiality. You can request a letter from your GP to support your claim for legal aid, whether that could be used as evidence in court, I'm not sure - you'd have to ask someone more knowledgeable.

[NotQuiteSoOnEdge]

A GP letter documenting abuse can help you access legal aid, and also protection orders such as a non-molestation order. It can be used in court as evidence of abuse.

[Lweji]

I think you should definitely discuss your concerns about getting pregnant with your GP. In particular if you ask for long term contraception
And request counselling for the sexual abuse. You don't have to call it abuse, but you should clearly describe what he does to you.

Unfortunately, lots of people, like your compatriot, have trouble understanding abuse. People being abused may not even really recognise it. :(

But you are doing great. Keep it up and you will be free.

[captainmummy]

'It's great that he still loves you after all this time' - but this is not love, OP. It's control over a sexual plaything.

He doesn't actually want anything else, does he? He forces himself to look after his own children for an hour. Decides that you will have another baby. Decides when you go to bed; when you awake. What and when you will study - preferably not.

Def see GP - get it logged as sexual abuse. Get long term contraception that is not noticable, just in case the pill fails. (You said it was very quick last time (I'm not surprised, with all the sex)- you sound v fertile!)

Good work with the soliticor, Adorably

[AcrossthePond55]

I don't want to alarm you, but it think I see the noose tightening. Talk of a baby, resentment at things involved in your course, wanting to tie you down to the house. Next it will be that you are 'neglecting' your duty to the family.

I know you have your own timetable. But please try to build in an 'escape plan'.

[tipsytrifle]

Just chiming in to wish you strength over the foreseeable future. Things will ramp up now. AcrossthePond has it right. Your womb is in the spotlight, dear adorably. Protect her well!

[Lweji]

It is something that we predicted earlier on.

He supports you studying as long as it doesn't impact him and it doesn't give you freedom.
He now has a plan to stop you from becoming independent and he is implementing it.
It is urgent that you implement your plan for freedom.

[captainmummy]

Re your whole hour away at your drinks, op he complained this was taking over everything, that my priority should be the children, did I need to go, who was there, he hopes it won't become a regular thing - what would he say if you levelled that same to him? He is away a lot - the dc are obv your job. What does he do when away? This whole attitude that the DC and his needs are your priority is infuriating.

I bet you can't wait for the day you can go to bed alone, read, go on holiday, study, wear a bikini without having to stop every five minutes and service him.

I think when you leave you should leave him a plank of wood with a hole in it.

[acharmofgoldfinches]

and make sure the plank of wood has splinters...

[captainmummy]

Charm - I did think, after i'd posted, that I'd make sure it was sanded, then thought no, bugger it.

[tipsytrifle]

Chuckling at acharm and captainmummy ... wonderful posts - and laughter is a Good Thing. This man is hideous and awful, he is your Enemy that you are sleeping with. But he is also very predictable and even more stupid than he thinks you are, adorably!

[WellWhoKnew]

Keep going with the solicitors Adorably and don't feel stupid for crying to them, they are used to it - after all they are dealing with a very distressing part of your life: the decision to leave a marriage.

Don't feel silly about crying anymore than you would feel silly for saying 'ouch' when you were in labour. Totally okay and good solicitors are used to it (as are good midwives).

Make sure your solicitors are Family Law Specialists as you've got children. Don't take one on that is a 'jack of all trades'. Then prioritise one who you click with.

You're doing okay - and keep contact with WA. Good luck.

[adorably2014]

Just catching up now.

Splintered wood - ouch!
Yes laughter is a good thing. Cynicism seems to have been a bit of a coping mechanism, I think. My work experience manager likes a good cackle, which I have really been enjoying... I can't tell her but she would definitely approve of the splintered wood idea.

I'm not sure what my H could do really. I mean he could try to hide the pills, but otherwise? The course is paid for, and because I was thinking of doing it last year, got a course programme and self-studied on it last year, and literally working any spare hour I have, I am now way ahead on a lot of the coursework. I'm trying to finish that asap so I can then try to do more paid stuff, and look for more stable employment. My H is very odd as he was the one who encouraged getting the pt after school nanny, in fact at one point he wanted a ft nanny, which was ridiculous since the DCs are at school. He pays for her from our joint account which if he wanted he could stop.

captainmummy he can look after the children. He chose to be difficult because he didn't want me to go to the drinks. It was not about the children but about me. I was actually expecting worse comments than I got. In essence I usually go out with people he knows, other mums or our friends. He doesn't know this crowd and so doesn't like it. Completely unwarranted especially and as (as you say) when he is away or out I don't check on him or complain. Also the course is impacting on nothing apart from the kids' pick ups being done by someone else on some days. But even then I am home pretty early, compared to some of the parents who have to work full time jobs and commute.

I will make a GP appointment. lweji yes I will describe some of what happens and ask for a referral. I am dreading it really as I would prefer to wait to discuss in depth but I see it's really important.

tipsy i don't know about stupid but certainly lacking in awareness. Had it not been for the video, calling me names, or things like the beach incident, I would not be trying to get out to be honest. I really don't think he has realised at all that has tipped me over the edge, and that the trust and respect I had in/for him has gone.

[adorably2014]

Thanks WellWhoKnew - I will check that.

[adorably2014]

Had another free half hour with a new solicitor yesterday. They have experience of the situation I am in. She had a really no nonsense approach. Their fees are more than the one last week. She said there were different ways to go about a divorce but that if coercion was involved and very little real life support she would recommend police involvement. She said it would also make the initial process less costly and faster. My big big worry with this is that it will be my H's word against mine. I said that but she says there are ways round that.

For the children she says because I am their main carer a 80/20 split would not be unusual. The half hour went very quickly and I didn't ask her how that would work. My H currently works away so much maybe not 80% of the time! but at least 60-70% of the time), does that mean that he would automatically see the children when he is here, as in there would be no flexibility for me to have them at a particular time to make his 20 share? Also one thing I worry about would be that he might say it's his turn to have them and then goes off on a trip and gets nannies to look after them. That wouldn't be allowed, would it? That's what makes me the saddest and most worried now, the children as there is no way I could have them all the time, is there?

She looked at the documents I had and advised me to try and get some other ones if I could. She was very nice and efficient. I need to decide now who to go with. Last week's was slightly gentler, yesterday's had a more nothing is impossible/no nonsense approach. Left to my own devices I am far too soft so my head thinks the one yesterday might be better. I am now wondering whether to see both again for a fee - is that a complete waste of money?

Otherwise I saw the GP this morning. I completely failed to articulate in an effective way what the problem was and she said to make another appointment to discuss the referral. As I know there's only 10 mins I started out talking about my husband wanting a baby and me not, but she seemed to think it was a normal couple thing, with nothing sinister. For contraception she reckoned one of the injections was not a good idea (osteoporosis risk), suggested another or Mirena coil. I chickened out of changing for now as I'm worried about side effects.

[Twinklestein]

Generally contact is every other weekend for the non-primary carer, and holidays are then negotiated.

You'd think if he wants to see his children he would organise his trips when he's not due to have them. You might as well have them if he's going away - unless you meant he takes them with him - in which case he may get a nanny.

I much prefer yesterday's solicitor, you need someone tough and experienced to deal with your husband and I think she sounds like the woman for the job. She's right about telling police, it's true it's one person's word against another's, but that's generally true of abusive relationships unless there's physical violence involved.

Your GP clearly has not grasped the situation at all if she thinks that the baby thing is 'a normal couple thing'. It would be in a different scenario. I would call Women's Aid and discuss it with them to help you find words and phrases to communicate to the GP what the problem is. Some doctors are quite thick literal: so you have to spell it out: I would use the words emotional abuse, sexual abuse, coercion etc. Explain that trying to get you pregnant in this case is to control and dominate you, curb your independence, stop you working, earning money and having an independent life. If she really doesn't get it change your GP.

They're supposed to have domestic abuse training but the reality is many GPs have not got a clue.

[Lweji]

I don't think judges will go with the "it's my turn now". Family courts tend to keep the children in familiar surroundings and minimise disruption for them.
That would mean the same main carer.

I would also be tempted to go for the toughest solicitor, but she may be more optimistic than she should. Do you have any track record for either?

I think it may be a good idea to put what you need to say to the GP on paper and hand it out to them. Then they can discuss it with you without you having to muster the courage to start the conversation.

[WellWhoKnew]

Hey there, Good to see you're keeping on, keeping on.

Do not worry that it's his word against yours. Divorce is more about making arrangements for the finances and arrangements for the children. The onus is on you and he to agree this, with the help of solicitors if you feel you need them, or using a mediator. I know others who sit down with a glass of wine, have a row, and get it done.

You cannot be forced to remain in a marriage because that's what the other person wants. Do speak to Women's Aid to get some assistance with the emotional side (because the divorce process isn't dealt with 'emotionally' but legally - so it's cold). It's the emotions that are the hardest part to deal with.

How you arrange child contact is really up to you and him - what is going to work for you both - but at all times, the needs of the children must come first. If he works away a lot, then you could say he gets them two weekends consecutively, and then you have them two week ends consecutively. He could have them for one week in four. The fact that your neighbour does EOW is the arrangements that she decided with her Ex, and if your other neighbour does 50/50 with his ex - is because that's what they decided (or a court did - but only after they couldn't decide between themselves). There are no hard and fast rules on this. Obviously, if he wants them 50/50 but wants to bring in a nanny to do his 50%, then it's not acceptable to anyone, if your children are being brought up by a stranger, when clearly they would be better spending time with their mother. Again, a good solicitor will discuss what you want and make him a proposal.

Don't be afraid of seeing other solicitors in the interim. But do buy the book I recommended because, personally, I found it all very hard to take in at my initial consultation (1 and a 1/2) hours because it was so overwhelming.

Make your decisions as and when you feel able to. Divorce is a long, stressful event but it ends. Good luck.

[AcrossthePond55]

I think solicitor 2 would be better. You need someone who will fight for you and be 'tough' when your instinct is to either give in or try to smooth things over.

As far as the nanny issue, I would assume that if it's 'his time' he can employ a nanny whilst he is at work. However, I would think you could have a clause that if he is out of town during 'his time' that the children are to be returned to you rather than being with a nanny 24/7 during his absence. That's very reasonable. I don't think there's a judge in the world who would insist that children be at their father's home with a nanny while he is out of town just because it's 'his week'.

As hard as it will be, you need to be blunt about how your H has treated you sexually. You need to make it clear that he has a pattern of bullying you in to activities you find distasteful and that he has disregarded your verbal 'NO' and proceeded with what he wants. Write it down and show it to the GP rather than trying to speak the words. Remember that when you have said 'yes' only because of his behaviour, that 'yes' is NOT TRUE CONSENT. This is true even if you ended up having an orgasm. It is the same as being forced to perform a sex act during a rape because there is a gun pointed at you.

[adorably2014]

I don't blame the GP. The waiting room was bursting at the seams, and I think she saw it was going to go over her time limit ... I wanted to say something more, it's just the way I said it initially made it sound like it was a simple disagreement, so she was a bit dismissive and then I said there was more to it and I felt pressurised and she said it would be best to make another appointment to deal with that. I'd made the appointment especially with her as she is the best of the female ones. The male doctor for the DCs is really good but I am uneasy discussing this stuff with him.

For who would care for the children it's just my mind went into overdrive last night after the meeting. I just wondered whether my H could ask to have the children 50/50 and then have them cared for by a nanny while he is out of the country. He would be abroad, they would be here looked after by a nanny. It would be nuts, but I think if he decides to make life difficult he will want to hit where it hurts, and the children would be the most obvious way to hurt me, I'm sure he knows that. As for his trips, he doesn't decide all the time when they are. He is often back at weekends so I guess would see the children then.

Yes WellWhoKnew it's a very steep learning curve, it feels pretty scary too. . I can't really buy that book you mention at the moment ... I am having to be careful with what I keep and where (the paperwork to show the solicitors) so not sure how I could justify a copy of a Family law book lying around in the house.

Lweji should I be asking them something about their track record and if so what? or did you mean whether they are members of any associations etc?

Thanks for your kind words - much appreciated.

[Adarajames]

Is the book available as an ebook? Then you could have on your phone / laptop, maybe with password if he's not likely up notice a new file?

[captainmummy]

OP - as you are the primary carer of your dc, he will not get 50/50. And jsut becasue he wants to hurt you by using the dc, (another pointer of abuse, there) doesn't mean that a judge will just go along with it! Having contact with the dc is for the childrens' benefit, not his, and there is no benefit in them going to his if he is not there.

Do go back to the GP - and have it all written down.

Re the 'his word against mine' - it's is always the case in divorce! don't worry about that - in any case, there is no 'fault' in divorce any more. If one wants to divorce, that is enough. But in this case - what about this video he says he has of you? The one where he said he's shown it to colleagues? Sexual abuse, right there, even without all the other things [bleurgh]