Decision made

[adorably2014]

I posted here in June. I can't seem to be able to link to my old thread. After a summer of ups and downs I have decided I don't want to be married to my husband anymore. He has no idea and now the children are at school again I have more time to plan.

My fear is that because what is happening is always in private, how can I possibly document all this and be believed in the divorce courts? For example this summer he had bought me two really expensive pieces of jewellery which he presented to me in front of the children as a kind of I love you gift, only for 5 days later to do the stuff that has made me decide to leave. So he will easily seem like the wronged man with a gold digger wife. I am also concerned what to say to the children when a split is initiated. I don't want them to know exactly as it would be too awful for them but then again is it going to be possible to protect from everything? I also worry that if I talk about what has been going on then my H could potentially be in trouble which I don't want, selfishly I just don't want to have to live with it anymore.

For the moment I am focusing on my course and work experience where I asked if there was possible paid employment. My boss said they were very busy and would probably have two projects I could help with in October and be paid for. I hope it materialises. In the meantime I am putting as much money as possible into my own account. My H has not got access to it but knows the account details. Is it OK do you think or should I set sth he knows nothing about. For choosing a solicitor is it best to take a WA solicitor or one of my own? I reckon my H will get someone really good and expensive so I need to make sure I have someone very very good.

I tried to find a counsellor before the school holidays but it wasn't that easy. I also found that talking about all the stuff in a way made me freeze and reflect so much that I couldn't act if that makes sense. I think when things are over I will then hopefully find the space to talk ... So for now I am trying to get on with practical stuff like following advice on getting paperwork together before contacting solicitors. My H has loads of paperwork. I know because I sometimes do his filing. There are share certificates, pension stuff etc... Do I need to copy everything? If so,does it need to be recent or can I take copies now even if I don't start anything in 6 months' time.
Sorry I sound like such a cold calculating b here. I am mostly terrified of putting the children through such an upheaval but then I keep reminding myself our eldest saw something was wrong with me during the holiday and didn't really believe the explanation that 'mummy is tired'.

Anyway apart from my few questions not sure entirely why I am posting, for support I guess and to update on previous thread after this long gap.

[Scarletohello]

Just caught up with the thread, you're doing great OP! I agree that the 2nd solicitor sounds best as when the shit hits the fan you're gonna need someone who can play hardball, as your husband certainly will....

[adorably2014]

Yes the solicitor on Monday really didn't sound like she would take any s*. They have a children's department, deal with international so pretty much everything. I guess for me it is just that I feel hugely out of my depth. The enormity of what I want to do scares me as well as making decisions about things and understanding all the implications, like for example involving the police. I am also wondering how much money I really need to save. The solicitor said it was good to wait until I am ready but that realistically I shouldn't wait until I am so at the end of my tether I find I have money but my mental health has been affected. And I can see what she means. My H's current word is "relax" which is driving me nuts. For the past 2 weekends it's all I hear. He seems to think my course and work is making me stressed. Yes I need or contact the WA lady again to talk to her I think.

adara the book can be bought on Kindle which I have. But my H also has one. We use the same Amazon account and a while ago we realised that, although we bought a book specifically for one person, whatever he bought also found its way on mine and vice versa. I changed some settings but then over the summer I realised I was again getting his books. I need to look at this again. I have an iPad so should probably set up a new Amazon account and get books on that instead. I haven't had a chance to look yet.

I need more hours in the day to do everything really ... Thanks

[myfriendflickadee]

Be careful, adorably. I got caught out buying Lundy Bancroft using our joint Amazon account. Fortunately I had a plausible work related excuse when he confronted me - I often have to buy books on diverse subjects for research. He was suspicious for a long time though.

If you have been searching on Amazon for books like that, it will show up in recent searches on your account and may start offering you "similar" books you might like when you log on. You need to delete the search before he sees it. I'm sorry, I can't remember how to do it but if you call Amazon help they will tell you how to do it (no need to tell them why if you don't want to, just say you need to cover your tracks because it's a surprise gift).

Also, don't forget, not only will he get copies of anything you download from your joint account, he will be able to see any purchases you have sent from the account and, if he is the main account holder, get email notifications of purchases. They also send spam emails saying "you recently searched for..." to the account holder trying to nudge you into purchasing things you've looked at.

You really do need to get a separate Amazon account and don't use a bank account that he has access to to make payments. If possible, open a new secret bank account for things like this (solicitors etc). Women's Aid will be able to give you info on keeping safe, covering your tracks, hiding browsing history.

Take care

[AcrossthePond55]

I think the solicitor sounds perfect. Even more so if you feel out of your depth. They would be a firm who would be able to be decisive on your behalf and cut through your H's bullshit if or when you feel frightened or unsure. That's a GOOD thing. You don't want a wishy-washy firm that isn't invested in getting the best possible outcome.

Once again your H is trying to undermine you. 'Relax' is code for 'give it up'. This way he can be 'supportive' whilst trying to intimate that it's 'too much' for you.

As far as how much money you actually need, that's a tough one. It all depends on how you want to live once you've separated and what, if anything, you can expect from him financially during that time. Something to talk to WA and the solicitor about.

[Adarajames]

Def be careful if joint Amazon, maybe set up new email address too, that way you have some method of communicating with people that he won't know about. Koko x

[adorably2014]

flickadee thank you so much. My heart absolutely sank when I read your post earlier. I delete my history and Google browsing but I hadn't thought of the Amazon history still showing on the site when actually yes there it always is even when you log out and I should really know this. Can't believe I am so stupid. There's a box called "manage your browsing history" so it's now all deleted. I only looked at it twice, last night and when WWK first mentioned it but that was enough to get a trail of family law books. Thankfully I had ordered completely different things in between but still
Account is in my name, but linked to joint email and to two different cards, one of which mine. I've now looked at plenty of children's books and videos and hope they send emails about that rather than the book. I have checked the email account and there is nothing in any of the folders. I will have to check it every day now for a while. I had been so careful ... Obviously not so S s s*

[acharmofgoldfinches]

Hello Adorably, you are doing so well - I know it's scary, but just one step at a time...

if there are books you want to look at/buy then it doesn't have to be from Amazon, Waterstone's also do downloadable books and you can also get some online, our local library used to have a selection of e-books that you could borrow. As the others have said Amazon is a bit of a nightmare when there are several accounts, it may be worth giving them a ring and checking if they can delete your browsing history completely.

this week's solicitor sounds a much better bet, someone who will be tough about things when you are feeling anything but, you could get more advice from other firms but if you feel "comfortable" talking to these people then you may have found the ones you need.

re the GP, you wouldn't be the first person to write something down and hand it to the GP to read because it's too hard to say out loud. And re the osteoporosis risk with injections, keep in mind that you are only doing this for the short term, so it's not like you're going to be on it forever.

Keep going love, you are doing really, really well and we are all right behind you.

xxx

[AwakeCantSleep]

Dear adorably, I'm de-lurking to send you strength. You are doing amazing. Just wanted to add my thoughts on a couple of points:

Re GP. Please write it all down on a piece of paper and hand it to your doctor (if you feel unable to speak the words). I did the same a year ago when I first sought help for severe depression and anxiety. Your GP should be very sympathetic. If they aren't, demand to see someone else. My doctor has been amazing over the past year. I have sat there in tears many times.

Re sexual abuse. I can't even imagine what it feels like to go through what you have been enduring. Please get it on record with the GP. Your solicitor will advise you regarding the police. Write down the things you told us in this and your previous thread. I can understand why you are struggling to put it in words. In my recent therapy I was asked the question if I had ever been abused. It was so hard to say yes, sexual abuse, once. All memories came flooding back. I had put the incident in a tiny corner to the back of my mind. Now I am glad I talked about it, and I understand it is okay to be affected by it (even many years later).

Wishing you the best of luck. You sound like an amazing woman and mother.

[acharmofgoldfinches]

just had another thought about solicitors...

What seems right about the people you saw this week is that it sounds like they would "manage" the process for you, telling you what you need to do, when to do it and how. Also the fact that they clearly have a lot of expertise in areas you need help with - this will make them more expensive of course, but it sounds like they would be worth it.

As the others have said you don't need someone gentle - that's not a useful thing to be if you are a solicitor. Gentle is for friends (RL and MN), for solicitors you need someone who is sympathetic to your situation and who combines that with their professional expertise to look after you, fighting damned hard if necessary.

And apart from getting the right outcome for you financially and with the children, it also sounds like this no-nonsense approach might actually be more help emotionally as well - when you are overwhelmed by the enormity of it all (and I don't blame you) it sounds like they would carry the weight of it all for you.

You are a very strong person - I know it won't feel like it some days - to be making the plans you are making. And having an equally strong/even stronger solicitor next to you is just what you need/deserve; you don't have to have this fight on your own.

Enough now, I am all fired up on your behalf I need a drink! xxx

[Scarletohello]

Just remember how you wrote how your husband is 'ruthless' in business. You need someone equally ruthless to combat him as he will be undoubtably ruthless when you try to divorce him..,

[adorably2014]

Catching up now. Thank you for your kind comments and advice. It's really very kind of you. I will use the same paper I took with me to the solicitor when I go to the GP again. It's next week.

I don't feel that strong but some kind of weird survival instinct seems to have kicked in. It's a bit like how I felt when I told my mother that I was going to take the bursary I had been awarded to study in the UK. She pressurised me no end to not accept it, but I did. Except now it's 10 times worse, in a different situation and with the children I feel so responsible for what might happen. The idea of being apart from them breaks my heart.
I have booked all sorts of appointments early next week. I will decide early next week whether to see this week's solicitor again. First I need to get copies of some of the stuff she asked me about. Yes I agree I need someone strong who would be able to guide me. I need to ask her more precisely about finances and what I have saved so far.

My H is back later. He says he has had a stressful week ... At least I have booked for a haircut tomorrow so he can't say I'm not "relaxing". in my saving drive I hadn't had my hair cut since summer - it's long so I thought I could get away with it - but my husband remarked on how long it was last weekend.

[AcrossthePond55]

I'm assuming that you are NOT cutting your hair because he wants you to, right?

NONE of this is on you. It is HIS intolerable behaviour that has caused this. If he had been a kind, considerate, NORMAL man you wouldn't be leaving. But he isn't. He's inconsiderate, bullying, and ABNORMAL (sexually).

Your children will be fine. They have you, don't they?

[acharmofgoldfinches]

Pond is right Adorably, the children will be fine, and you won't be without them...of course you feel responsible for them, but trust me they will cope with temporary upset now better than growing up watching you being bullied, especially once they are old enough to realise what sort of bullying is going on.

You will make the right decision for you about the solicitor - you've made all the right decisions so far - so trust in your head and heart, and the survival instinct will do the rest.

xxx

[adorably2014]

Acrossthepond it's not to make myself look good for him. I am trying to cut on the amount of money coming out of my own account, so put off going to hairdresser. He said something about my hair last week so I thought I'd better give it a trim as I wouldn't want him to realise I am putting money aside.

I was back at the GP just now. Thanks for encouraging me to go .She was very nice and is making a referral. I also have to go for a blood test as I have been having palpitations and feeling faint on the mornings I get on the train to work and course. She says it sounds like panic attacks but wants to check.

I am probably wasting headspace on this but I can't believe how he has changed for the worse in the last year/18 months or so ... If he is in a mood and I say the wrong thing he just gets so verbally nasty and rude. What gets me also is how normal he behaves after - as if he never said anything.

On Saturday evening he got into one of his moods again after we left a dinner party organised by a woman he used to work with. When she invited us my H made much of the fact she had moved in with her "toyboy" (his words and again the sort of comment which I find ignorant and that he wouldn't have made before). She is roughly my H's age. Though younger than her probably the man didn't seem that young. Anyway after we left their place H asked what I thought of the "toyboy" and said something rude about him being cocky. I agreed he was a bit cocky but they were good company and I said something like "yes he was but he is not much of a toyboy and anyway he seems to make her happy". My husband just went off on one and ended up saying I fancied him. I just said no and just kept quiet. In the cab he groped me while saying stuff in my ear. After I pushed his hand away a few times he then said to the cab driver about him working away all week and how he would expect his wife to be "gagging for it" when he gets home but no such luck. I felt so embarrassed. He was a bit drunk but even so. When we got home he went on again about the "toyboy", wanting me to say I fancied him. Told me to relax tell him, he wouldn't mind. I didn't but it is so sick.

On Sunday he was all nice as if nothing had ever happened . Let the children come on our bed for stories, offering to take them out, talking about choosing holiday destinations for Easter. Seeing him play with the children I just kept wondering how he could be such a nasty piece of work a few hours before. I wasn't very chatty so he kept asking if there was something wrong, was I ok? In the evening when he asked again I told him and he got crossed saying I made mountains out molehills. Then as I just looked at him silent he said he loved me and I should realise that. He disgusts me really I don't know how he can live with himself

Sorry it's so long again, just getting it out my system. I have contacted no nonsense solicitor as I can't take this anymore. They can only offer the day of my work placement but I have to take it I think. Not sure what I will say to work placement. I have also been in touch with WA too again.

[AcrossthePond55]

God, how horrible. Words really fail me. I'm not a professional so I won't try to put a label on him, but he really is one of the most self-involved, immature, self-centered, egotistical creatures I've ever heard tell of! What he said to the taxi driver would have humiliated me to the ends of the earth! And drink is obvs NO excuse. I also think that the reason he got so miffed about the boytoy is because he is worried that you will eventually want a man closer to your own age.

As far as wondering how he can be so nice the next day, it's because he sees nothing wrong with what he is doing, so of course there's no change in demeanor.

If he has stepped up his nastiness in the last 18 months it's because he either senses your change and is trying to assert control or possibly it's just that you gradually became more aware that what he is doing is wrong.

You keep strong. See your GP, it may very well be panic attacks.

[acharmofgoldfinches]

He is totally revolting and I think Acrossthepond is right - you are possibly more aware of his disgusting behaviour now that you can see a way out. I'm not surprised you have had enough...

I'm sure the work placement people will be fine - just say you have a health appointment that's likely to drag on a bit. Or even just call in sick if your not being there isn't going to cause them a huge problem. Or even if it is, to be honest - you need to prioritise your needs at the moment, even if that does feel a little bit selfish (I don't think it's selfish, I just think you're not used to putting yourself first ).

[adorably2014]

Well I don't know if I've done the right thing but I phoned my aunt tonight and told her. Not everything but some. She was horrified and has offered to come over to look after the babies as she calls them. I now hope she won't tell my mother. I'm closest to her than my mother and anyone else in the family.
I just think things have sunk so low I can't do much worse anyway.
Fretting about the day off was silly as I'm not that important there anyway. The manager said to do 2 days the week after if I can.

I was hoping to keep saving until April/ May even maybe later but I don't think I can. Will see what solicitor says but not holding my hopes up ...

[Scarletohello]

Is it just the money keeping you there? Have you found out what you would be entitled to if you leave?

[AcrossthePond55]

I'm glad you've found someone in RL to support you. Did you specifically ask her not to tell your mother? If not, you should so there are no misunderstandings.

[adorably2014]

All the solicitors have said I won't be left homeless and penniless at the end of the day (in fact more than I thought) but yes I am frightened of the in-between stage. When he gets the papers then what? That is why I wanted to save money so I could pay for stuff if he becomes difficult. I don't like confrontation and I can see how the money saving is also me hoping that somehow I can manoeuvre my way out in a neat way. Probably stupid. He was such a pig on Saturday I think I just need to stop agonising and just press the divorce button really and see what happens. On Sunday I thought maybe I should tell him if he did this again then I couldn't see any point in staying together but then thought it might blow my plans.

Have found and copied the papers the solicitor wants. Appointment is at the end of week.

I told my aunt not to tell my mother. The 2 of them don't get on and hardly speak but they can get a bit tit for tat. I hope aunt doesn't use it to get one over on my M. I think I can trust her though. She was really good to me in my teens when it all kicked off with my mother. I feel better now I have told her actually. She was so outraged I hope I haven't worried her too much.

[Lweji]

Do you have a credit card?

I hardly use mine but it was a godsend when I was separating from ex and he took all the money from the joint savings account.

[adorably2014]

I have Lweji. I never really use it except abroad. Didn't think of that but doesn't it mean getting into a lot of debt? How long did you have to rely on yours if you don't mind saying?
The solicitor's fee are eye wateringly expensive. Unless legal aid is granted can't imagine how that will go without a stash of money somewhere.

[captainmummy]

OP - I hope the solicitors have reassured you that your H will still be required by law to pay maintenance for the dc, and possibly spousal maintenance for you too. With the benefits etc you should (hopefully) be ok.

When he gets the papers - well, if you are in any way afraid of his reaction, you should talk about getting a non-mol and an occupation order. These are so that he doesn't come to within a certain distance of you/the dc, and he can't harass or bully/abuse you in any way. You can arrange contact/access for the dc etc when these are in place. The finances will be sorted at the same time as a divorce. ALL finances will be taken into account, and sworn in front of a judge, who will then decide who lives where, and what gets paid by who to whom.

Don't forget - you do not have to justify your actions to anyone - including him. He is acting like a disgusting pig, but he will never see that. Don't waste you breath trying to convince him.

[captainmummy]

BTW the sols fees are usually paid at the end ie when the finances are sorted. You may need to pay on account as you go; but you will also need to sort who will pay. It's usually 50/50% unless the judge decides otherwise (It does happen that one party will pay the lot - it would be him in this case, dont worry) Did you get the DV/abuse logged? That will help your case of legal aid.

[AcrossthePond55]

If you are getting anxious and feeling that you'll want to leave soon, talk to the solicitor. Ask them (if you haven't): Is it to be expected that you will remain in the family home since you expect to have the children? At what point will a financial support order be made?

I do feel that it will be impossible for you to stay living with your husband once you have made it clear that you want to divorce. I just don't think he'll be the type to let you go easily. Do you have anyone with whom you will be able to stay for a month or two if need be? Have you looked at rental prices? I think any good solicitor will already have told you to think of these things.

I'm in the US so not sure how it typically works, but I've seen on other threads where a woman has been able to serve her STBXH divorce papers and an order for him to vacate at the same time. Again, I'm sure the solicitor will advise you.

Try to relax and be serene. You will be free in the long run.