My dad and strange relationship with teenage girl

[Gramparsons]

I have name changed for this as it is embarrassing and disturbing and I really don't want to be outed.

In the past few months my dad has befriended a 14 year old girl who lives next door to my brother and nephews. She started tagging along when he was taking them to football training and for dinner after and she now has his number and she calls him to run her here there and everywhere. He thinks this is hilarious. The reaction in the family has gone from eye rolling, to bewilderment and now anger that he will not see sense. My brother used to give her lifts but stopped because people were calling him a pervert.

She phones him up to take her to the takeaway, pick her up from her friends house etc. and a while back he was late meeting me and my mum because she phoned him for a lift into town then when he was going she said 'oh are you not waiting to drop me off home'. She recently called him from a friends house where she had started an argument and she jumped in the car and shouted at him to drive, she rolls down his window and shouts at people, takes his camera to take pictures of herself and he thinks it is all funny.

He is an incredibly stubborn character and says he will not be told what to do. There is nothing going on, nothing wrong. He doesn't care if people are talking about him, he will not change his behaviour for other people. To some extent it's an admirable character trait but for fucks sake, he doesn't get what effect this is having on any body. My mum is embarrassed in case people are talking about her and scared that this girl may accuse my dad of something and it looks pretty much like he is grooming her doesn't it? He is driving her round buying her food (and knowing my dad and how he is generous with his money he will be giving her handouts like he does everybody). He has accused my mum of being jealous, she is angry at the position he is putting her in.

A couple of weeks ago she phoned and asked him to take her to McDonalds and that she had a 'massive favour' to ask him. She wanted him to take her shopping to a city about 3 hours away from us. He has gone today at the crack of dawn. He has now denied she asked, he said she told him she had been arguing with her boyfriend and he said she needed retail therapy. I honestly don't know what is worse. I don't believe there is anything going on, but I am aware it doesn't look that way. She could accuse him so easily. My other brother has said if he is accused of anything he will not be seeing his granddaughter, will not be able to take his grandson's to football. I agree.

My mum is distraught, she says she can barely bring herself to speak to him, she spent last night at my brother's house and had been sleeping in the spare room. I have sent him a text saying I am so angry he is completely disregarding my mum's feelings like this, and he should stop paying for things and see how long it takes her to lose interest. He should be taking his own grandchildren on trips like this, not a pushy hard faced girl he hardly knows. I have a choppy history with him and this is pushing me to the limit. I have had periods of no contact with him but we have grown close since the birth of my first baby.

I don't know what I think is going on. I know he likes to be useful, he goes out of his way to give lifts/run errands for anybody but this is not innocent to me. I don't think she has any interest in him but she is out for what she can get because he is a soft touch. It is making my skin crawl to think about them. I don't know what I want from writing this :((.

They don't have cosy one on ones when they teach them about poetry or religion. People who love poetry or religion share it with other adults. If they wish to share these things with children, they join an official organisation which works with children . They get training on child protection and they follow the rules and procedures. The children who attend these groups are there with the consent of their parents

My god, I'm glad my 'grandfather' had the guts to ignore super-conventional views like this.

What do you suggest young people do who have parents who don't care? Not every young person joins a group or wants to. Not every parent gives a shit.

or is it only the kind older people who join a group and the lost teens who join that group who are entitled to help? Sorry, the rest of you, you won't join a group so you can go to hell? Anyone who doesn't fit the rules deserves what they get?

My goodness me, thank god not everyone is so blinkered.

~proviso~: Im talking generally not this particular situation because while it's possible it's innocent, the way the father here is acting is inappropriate due to 1) the way he's treating his wife 2) ignoring other people's concerns 3) oblivious to how things can look 4) there is the possibility it's innocent but there's the possibility it's not, too.

meerka it is of course not beyond the realms of possibility that he is just offering fatherly support and friendship to a vulnerable girl, but even if he is, he is waaay overstepping the boundaries of good sense and leaving himself very vulnerable to accusations and suspicion.

And apart from anything else, he is being very disrespectful towards his wife in the way he is dismissing her feelings and her concerns.

Unfortunately the balance of probability is that he is also grooming her for an intimate/sexual relationship. Even if he doesn't admit that to himself.

Agreed, faceboook. I absolutely agree in this case, I hoped it was clear in the proviso I wrote!

I was answering a previous poster who picked points out previous posts of mine and came up with a reply I found heartless. It touches my personal experience with a grandfather figure whom was nothing but a good influence in my life and to whom I'm truly grateful. Kind of a personal thing.

I've had quite a lot of contact in the past with people who've been groomed and abused so I do know what can happen and I know you have to be very careful. And the way this man is treating his wife and daughter's concerns is awful. I just wanted to put another side in the overall picture because sometimes the moon is blue, as you might say. I was a kid who was pulled through awful teen years by my 'grandfather' and his patient wife; without him there's a high chance I'd have been totally lost. But absolutely agreed that you have to be wary, careful and sensible.

I have no idea what you are talking about meerka. I suggest you read my post again

In fact I know a lot about children whose parents don't care -I've been a foster carer and worked for childline .

But you should know that Not all children who are victims of grooming have parents who " don't care " . Many do care, very much, but they didn't recognise it for what it was

Or they did, and they tried to get help for their child, but they didn't receive appropriate support from the authorities

I understand that you believe that the older man you had a relationship with as a teenager was well intentioned. I do not . And Its ok for me to have a different opinion that you. Of course I only know what you are posting. But I'm struggling to see what other information would make me think " ah well, that's ok then " . I would not be happy if it were my teenager . Your parents were happy, and that was their decision to make

One of the reasons that makes it very difficult to protect teenager and children who are being groomed is that the victim thinks there is nothing wrong . That the perpetrator is their friend or their boyfriend . That they love them .

They resist all efforts by parents, teachers and social workers to protect them because " they don't understand " . They sneak out of school to meet them. They borrow friends phones to text them .

They see their parents as " perverts who see paedos everywhere "

They think their teachers don't understand that the man who is grooming them " isn't like that " and " is special " .

There is a lot about grooming on the internet. You might find it helpful to read it

X posted with meerka

I understand that you feel this man was a good influence in your life. I'm sorry if my views are upsetting to you . But I'm still saying I would not allow it if it was my child and would do everything in my power to stop it

As other parents on this thread have done

I think we will have to agree to disagree

I know how it work, kristina, sadly. Saw the results of it in a semi-professional capacity many years ago, some of which still haunts me in nightmares becuase some of it was extreme stuff. Did go to the police about the very worst case of it, but they didnt have sufficient evidence to take it further since I was not the person involved .. sigh.

Decent, well intentioned men not strike up personal friendships with teenage children . If they wish to be charitable they join green peace or help at the cat and dog home or raise money for oxfam .

You just can't paint everyone the same colour.

Most people might join organisations but not everyone. It's not a crime to want to help someone else on a person to person level!

I would not be happy if it were my teenager . Your parents were happy, and that was their decision to make my parent didn't care He wasn't streetwise and I don't think it would have occured to him that my 'grandfather' might not have had good intentions. But in the end, as long as I was out of his sight whether that was shut in my bedroom each evening every evening or out of the house, he didn't care.

My 'grandfather' did care, and I'll be forever grateful for that.

Again, i am not talking of the OP's situatoin because her father is treating ... ach, I put it all in every single previous post, no point typing it again =)

anyway, i'm rather derailing things from the OP's post so I'll leave it here.

and fair enough, we can agree to disagree =)

Meerka - I'm sorry that you father didn't care . And I'm glad that you only have happy memories of the situation . I really don't want to upset you

Or, as you say, derail the Ops thread . Apologies if I have done so

I think the issue here is that the man is allowing himself (or perhaps encouraging?) a situation where he is developing a close relationship with this girl that does not involve his wife. If they are supporting her and mentoring her together it would be different, but clearly the wife is not involved in any way and it doesn't sound as if he is making any effort to include her, which is what makes it seem a bit sinister and certainly ill-judged and inappropriate.

agreed. sorry again for derailing

Well done OP. You did the right thing.

Justtherightbullets, I hope your rapist does get sent down. And i hope you do get a big grin on your face and get to dance the justice is served gig.
I wasn't trying to say I believed him innocent after all, but the WAY in which the girl was laughing about it made me doubt myself.

I said there was a hint of inappropriate thoughts, which he very strictly controlled and he behaved decently at all times. A hint. Which came out much much later, and he said in that conversatoin that I was taboo for him. He could not touch me in other than a fatherly hug. He knew it was wrong.

Not going to condemn a man after a steady years long stream of kindness and friendship because of some thoughts that skittered across his brain and were (i presume) kicked out. Because he never acted that way towards me. Nowt wrong with a bit of self-control.

Anyway, I really shall hide the thread now because somehow I couldnt let that pass and it is derailing!

Good luck OP.

Aaaargh I had no idea it was contempt if you didn't name names or such. Can my posts be removed?

Hi Gram hope you're doing ok. I posted yesterday but it must've been around the changeover as its not here. It was just to say once family know you reported, it will hit the fan. You have been so strong so far. You can get through this. I am concerned that you don't have the support of your partner. You need a trusted friend to lean on now. I hope you have someone. I have been where you are, had many sleepless night, got ostracised by family. It passes. Looking back I wouldn't change a thing. The impact was huge but I now sleep easier at night. You have done what needed doing.

Well done, op, for calling SS. What an awful situation for your family and of course the girl. Good for you for doing the right thing.

OP, our fathers really do sound very similar. Mine has done something much the same when ordering coffee, food, etc in restaurants. In my dad's case I think he thinks normal social rules just don't apply to him. He doesn't actually want to upset anyone, but he doesn't really understand why he can't just do what he wants. Again, I hope he never meets a teenager he takes a shine too.

I notice you said that your own relationship is in difficulties. Mine has been too, over the years, and I'm sure it's at least partly to do with my parents and their very weird behaviour/relationship. It sucks, doesn't it.

Purple, don't panic, it's gone . Super fast Mumsnet to the rescue

Just another note of reassurance for you Gram. Completely sure that Social Services will NOT reveal their source of information. That goes against their protocol absolutely. Please remember that their friendship might already be the subject of neighbour gossip and the referral could have been made by anyone.I think you did absolutely the right thing.

Kind regards and strength

It is absolutely appalling that trials are won or lost on the basis of whether juries feel that female witnesses are demure enough.

Thanks Kristina, and you're right to point out that sexuality has nothing to do with it. Abusers abuse regardless of who their adult relationships have been with.

Interesting that people own up to these thought processes though. Shows how mainstream and ingrained they are. Astonished - but not really astonished - that that juror isn't utterly ashamed of herself. "when we convicted him she looked pure but then she didn't look quite pure enough afterwards and we regretted it"