Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can't work out how I feel about my bizarre relationship (long, sorry)

381 replies

snowiswhite · 19/08/2014 14:00

Have changed my name for this post. I don't really know where to start with this, and I fear it could turn out to be far too long, so will try to keep it as concise as possible (which isn't very). Apologies in advance if I leave out too many details.

Me and DP have been together since 2005. We have DD and DS, aged 4 and nearly 3. I fell head over heels for DP very shortly after meeting him: it really seemed we were soul mates, and I was sincerely convinced for many years that it was very, very rare for a couple to love each other as much as we loved each other.

Shortly after meeting DP, I received an email from someone I didn't know, warning me that DP was a liar and that I should check everything. It was a strange email in that there was info in there that could only have come from someone who had been spying on our instant messenger conversations and emails. To cut a long story short, it turned out to be from DP's ex-girlfriend, who somehow had gained access to his emails etc. She had used a fake name to send me the email. All in all, she hadn't given me any reason to believe she was a reliable source of information, and I dismissed her (after an angsty conversation with DP).

Over the next 6.5 years, I could never shake the sense that DP was lying to me - about everything. This seemed so implausible to me at the time - after all, who (outside of a soap opera) would lie about everything? - that I dismissed it, and attributed this feeling to the fact that DP's ex had written me that strange email near the start of our relationship. We went on to live together, to get engaged, and to have DD and DS.

To cut a very long story short(ish), it turned out that he was indeed lying to me about literally everything. The most shocking lie was pretending to be terminally ill for several years starting from around the time DD was conceived in early 2009 - even going as far to get a scar tattooed on. Aside from that, he would lie about our finances (I no longer had a bank account (because he saw to it, I later realised) and he pretended he was wealthy when in fact we were on benefits), his intentions to marry me (he 'made' literally hundreds of appointments for us to have a no-frills reg office wedding, all of which were cancelled due to unforeseen aspects of his 'treatment' - it later emerged that he was still married to his ex wife), and he borrowed £1000s from my family despite having no way of repaying them.

Throughout all this, I suspected him constantly, but dismissed my suspicions for various reasons. Partly it was because the lies simply didn't make sense: I was working on the assumption that if someone lies to you, it's because they stand to gain something by doing so, and as far as I could see, he stood to gain nothing (quite the reverse in many cases). Partly it was because, as mentioned above, I was afraid that I was being unduly influenced by his ex's email. And partly because, when you think the love of your life is dying, you are afraid that your mind is playing tricks on you: of course you would prefer to believe that they have made up their illness, because that would be preferable to them dying, so that is a reason to dismiss your suspicion that they aren't really ill.

So, fast forward to mid-2012. DD is 2.5 and DS is nearly a year old. For nearly 2 years, we have been living rent-free (or, rather, on DP's constant promise of paying rent) in a totally unsuitable and frankly dangerous-for-kids annex of the home of some lovely relatives of mine. I had not gone back to work after DD was born, and spent my days at home, in the middle of nowhere, with no car, no bank account, 2 small kids to look after, while DP goes out every single day for hospital treatment. All I would do with my life, every day, is feed the kids and take them out for walks. Almost every day I am expecting that we are going to have our no-frills wedding, and every time I hope that this time it will go ahead, but DP calls with some reason why it has had to be cancelled. And almost every day I am expecting that today, finally, after a zillion hiccups, our joint bank account will finally be sorted out and we can get access to DP's massive savings and repay my relatives the money we owe them - but this never happens (N.B. I am not mercenary, I didn't care about living the high life, I just wanted a normal life and not to be in debt to my relatives). Writing all this is making my chest constrict, and maybe you can imagine the enormous stress I was under. It was really difficult to cope with all this, but 'knowing' that DP had a far more difficult battle to fight (i.e. his illness) made me feel guilty for worrying about my own troubles.

Anyway, in mid-2012, DP's excuses and stories started to build up to the extent that they become really quite implausible, and DP himself was starting to behave more erratically, presumably with the stress of keeping all the lies going. Even so, it was only after a long conversation with one of my relatives that I started to confront the possibility that DP was lying about his illness. (An aside: by this point, everyone else in my family had worked out he was lying, but they never said anything about it to me. Either they felt awkward about it or they thought I had access to more information to support my belief in him. But the fact that they all seemed to believe him itself made me think he must be telling the truth, and made me feel guilty for doubting him.) I spoke to DP on the phone - he'd gone to the hospital (or rather pretended to) as usual - and I gently asked him if he was really ill, and that maybe the problem was psychological rather than physical. Immediately he admitted it, if 'admitted' is the right term (given that, as I'll explain, he had trouble distinguishing lies from reality) - he said something like, 'yes, maybe you're right'.

From here, it's quite difficult to explain. It has turned out not to be a case of him consciously and maliciously deciding to lie. He genuinely seemed to have come to believe his own lies. I went to the GP with him and he was referred for a mental health assessment, and diagnosed with dissociative disorder, depression, and anxiety. He had large gaps in his memory and seemed not very capable of distinguishing reality from the fantasy he had invented. Over the months and years since (yes, we are still together), it has turned out that some very awful things have happened to him, and that he has been lying about things since childhood as a way to make himself feel better about himself and more important than he believes he is (he basically believes he is worthless). I think that he has been lying so long that lying comes as naturally to him as telling the truth does to the rest of us, and so it is very difficult for him to stop: much of the time, the decision to lie isn't a conscious choice.

He genuinely struggles wiith this and tries his best to get better. He has taken all the help he has been offered in terms of counselling - which isn't very much, and in my non-professional opinion he hasn't been offered the right sort of thing (basically he sees a counsellor and talks about his past, whereas I think he should be having something like CBT that would focus on getting him to stop lying, which is the root of all our problems). When I realised that we were penniless and on benefits, I saw that I would need to go back to work. I am very highly qualified but work in an extremely competitive industry where jobs are hard to come by. We lived in a shitty council flat, on benefits, for a year while I worked every spare waking minute at trying to get back to work, and eventually I did get a job. Last autumn we moved out of the shitty council estate and into a privately rented house in a nicer area.

My family, understandably, want little to do with DP after all this came out. However, whereas people tended to assume that he'd just leave after he'd been rumbled, he has not. While I've been working, he has tirelessly been a full-time dad. He is a wonderful father: far more patient than me, he adores our children and fills their days with fun things: they have planted flowers in the garden together, learned to ride bikes, etc, and he is involved with their pre-school as a committee member. At the same time he keeps our home in order, does all our grocery shopping, cleans and does the washing, etc. His only 'me time' without the kids are a night in the pub once a week with some friends who know nothing about his strange history (he doesn't get drunk, and doesn't drink much in general), and playing sport once a week during the summer. I am not trying to paint a romantic picture of him here - what I am trying to do is make the point that, whilst the lying etc might make it easy to view him as a villain, he has done his utmost to do the right thing since the problem has been identified.

The problem, though, is that he does still lie sometimes. I can't trust him not to. Sometimes he will admit it out of the blue, without me having pressured him to tell the truth, and he will be full of remorse. But sometimes when he lies, I know he is lying, but he won't admit it - and maybe can't admit it. He is not getting the right sort of mental health help to stop this, and we can't afford private treatment at the moment. And I'm left feeling that I'm dealing with it alone ... I don't really discuss it with people, and about a year ago he admitted it to his mum (which was a big deal because his mum has been through hell for various reasons recently, so he'd put off telling her). I was so pleased when he told his mum because I thought I'd have someone to talk to about it, but it hasn't worked out like that. His mum said she just needed time to digest it, then she and I would have a proper talk. But it's never happened. In the year since she found out, she's visited various family members who needed her help with various things, but she still hasn't tried to get to grips with what DP has been doing. And whilst I konw it must be upsetting for her, it also makes me see that maybe this is why DP is the way he is - he certainly doesn't seem high up her list of priorities. I feel like I've just been left holding the baby, so to speak: I'm dealing with it alone.

I never tell anyone about this. When the lies came to light, I had various friends who believed that DP was seriously ill, so I did tell them the truth in order to put them right. I rarely see them and they don't ask me about DP, perhaps understandably (what would they say?!). Everyone else - e.g. people I work with - just thinks we are a normal couple. I feel a bit like I lead a double life.

And now, I don't know whether I want this any more. I'm so tired of it all. I will always love DP, and I think he is a wonderful father, but the head-over-heels aspect of my feelings for him have gone, and I don't know if they'll come back. It's like the person I loved never existed, and whilst in the early days I was desperate to get that person back, I've sort of given up now. I know he still lies, and I really don't want it to be my problem any more - I don't want to live like this, with the stress of not being able to trust him. But, at the same time, I sort of can't imagine life without him. The children adore him. I care deeply for him and want to help him get better - I think he deserves to get better, he certainly struggles so hard with everything. I don't know what I want.

Complicating my feelings is the thought that, even if I did want out, I don't know how to get out. We live in a very expensive part of the country, and if we broke up we would have to pay for 2 households on my salary. I'm nearly 40, and hoping to buy a house in a year, otherwise I'll be too old to get a mortgage. DP could work, but we'd have to pay for childcare in that case, so wouldn't necessarily be better off. DP has occasionally said that we're not a normal couple and that if I want he will move out and find somewhere alone (presumably a crappy council bedsit), but still come over every day and look after the children. This itself breaks my heart ... his self-esteem is so low that it wouldn't even enter his head to fight for the children to live with him. He believes he deserves so little.

I have sort of lost track of what I was even wanting to ask with this post. I guess I just want to tell someone my story so that maybe, in the discussion that follows (if anyone has read this far!) I might get some clarity to my feelings.

OP posts:
WildBillfemale · 28/10/2014 19:11

DO NOT MARRY HIM

Stupidhead · 28/10/2014 19:13

I had a brief (6 week) 'relationship' with a guy who had the most bizarre life. It was all lies, looking back I can cringe that I fell for his stories and fantasy life. So I can totally understand how you could get sucked in.

Good luck Snow, I hope it works out.

blueVW · 28/10/2014 19:13

This is deeply sad and you're being pragmatic and brave OP. I haven't read every post, but IMHO would suggest you do, though need to separate as soon as you possibly can - no-one who can hurt his mother like this can possibly be a 'good dad' - all he is doing is lying (through his actions) and mimicking 'good dad', knowing this is only what stops you chucking him out.

I would not trust him with fundraising for anyone btw - although not a matter for you, I suggest you distance yourself from it.

Thank heavens you are so well educated and have a good career.

The very best of luck - you will come through it.

SagaNorensLeatherTrousers · 28/10/2014 19:14

I think it's worrisome that he's been bad-mouthing you to his family. Does his niece seem to be believing your side of things?

Viviennemary · 28/10/2014 19:20

Whatever the problems are and the reasons for your DH's behaviour you have to think to the future and concentrate on that. And make decisions re what is the best thing for your and your DC's. And if that means counselling to help you decide then consider it even though you say it hasn't helped you in the past. You have to decide whether your future is with him or not.

Momagain1 · 28/10/2014 19:22

You, his mom andhis niece need to have a conference and compare notes. You may not be able to convince them right away, but in the long run, it's the only chance they have of ever believing.

Charley50 · 28/10/2014 19:47

This is an awful situation but there is no way you can be out of the house five days a week for twelve hours and at the same time keep an eye in him.
Your final decision that it is over is recent but of course you can find another person to look after your children, millions of other single parents do. Childminder or au pair, if you don't earn enough you'll get tax credits.
Good luck but please realise that he has 12 hours per day when you ain't around to mess with your children's heads. It's not fair on them. They are growing up and becoming more aware every day.

Charley50 · 28/10/2014 19:47

Sorry, on him.

ChelsyHandy · 28/10/2014 19:59

I realise you must be in shock OP, but you are dealing with this really strangely.

You are renting your property, would it not make sense to have a goal of arranging your life in some way so as to lead it as separately as possible from this conman? I'm sure that is not impossible, you sound so organised, so clued up, so motivated, that I find it really rather strange that you dismiss all notions of doing so. If all you want from him is childcare, would you really choose to have as a childminder a compulsive liar who doesn't tell you the truth?

Rather than the usual response, which would be to distance yourself from him and this oddly untenable situation, all your posts are littered with references to multiple types of counselling for him, speaking to various members of his family about him, his feelings, etc..

I think you are still head over heels in love with this man, and perhaps a bit obsessed with him. You were the one who tolerated living in a relative's child unfriendly annexe for a lengthy period of time. I think this situation is really about the two of you and not just him - you know the truth now but seem to be tolerating it.

Whereisegg · 28/10/2014 20:31

I think a goal of him not being the children's primary carer is excellent, do you know any of the parents from school?
They can have a wealth of local knowledge, as can the teachers.

The thing you can do now, right now is not associate in any way with him regarding the fundraising.
If he really did hand over all monies last time (and remember, you can't trust him at all), then great, but he is in a precarious position now and he knows it.

patronisingbitchinthewardrobe · 28/10/2014 21:05

I am so sorry. This could happen to anyone - no-one would expect to be treated to such a colossal web of lies.

Separate yourself from him. Detach mentally, then financially and physically. Rightly, find alternative child care. If he's devoted to the children, he'll keep in touch with them.

You can't fix him. People can't fix each other. We can work on ourselves if we want to but we can't make things right for other people.

Work out what you want and go for it. Don't be surprised if, a few years after you break free, you become very, very angry about what has happened. You're too close to it now to take that risk so your mind will probably hide it from you.

I wish you well.

Suckitup · 28/10/2014 21:41

How can a confirmed liar make a wonderful fundraiser? Hey it's the ideal job for a con artist.

When you casually mentioned that he was involved with the school's fundraising, it did not seem to have occurred to you that he might have an ulterior motive despite you knowing he lies and having recently been told by health professionals that he is 'just a liar.'

JuxtheDaemonVampire · 28/10/2014 23:00

Your story is so sad, Snow. Good luck with sorting your life out after this man has shat all over it. By the way, I think what he gained from his lies was being believed which gave him power over the people who believed him. God knows why that matters to some people but it does, and he is one of them.

It's going to be difficult to disentangle yourself and your children from all this, but with determination and persistence I am sure you will manage it.

Call Women's Aid and ask for advice on how to extricate yourself. Find a Shit Hot Lawyer to help you. You may be entitled to help with rent etc, so you may find you can afford something closer to work and perhaps closer to family/friends who could help with childcare.

All is not lost, just a bit muddled. I am sure you'll get there.

ZorbaTheHoarder · 28/10/2014 23:04

Hi OP,

Surely it would be better (and feasible) to find a small place for you and the children near your work, so that you don't HAVE to rely on this man, which leaves you and your children in a very risky situation.

Why are you not enraged by his ongoing lies to your niece, and his cover-story to her about you being "difficult"?

I know you feel that there are practical difficulties stopping you from getting away from him, but I think that you have to see him for what he is, and make getting yourself and the children away from him as a priority.

mamadoc · 28/10/2014 23:45

Pleased to see this update as I posted on your original thread.

I'm really glad you went to the MH appt with him, stated your side of the story and got a clear opinion.

I hope that makes it easier to free yourself of any feeling of responsibility for him. He has been screwing up his life way before he met you and he will carry on when you are gone.

You cannot save him

And you should not try

It will never be successful and he will drag you and the DC with him.

Equally I would not worry too much about his mum. His mum knows full well I am sure what he is like and TBH she probably is not blameless given these patterns of behaviour start in childhood.

Your no1 priority now must be to get out and get your kids out. I'm no expert on how to practically do this but have seen loads of good advice on here. Are you so sure you can't afford it? You will get benefits, tax credits etc

Put a time limit on it. A deadline by which time you must be out. Maybe he is a 'good dad' now but you cannot let them grow up with these lies for much longer.

I know if must be daunting to face being a single parent. Short term there will be pain. The kids will miss him, they will have to move, go to childcare, have less money. They won't know why, you won't be able to explain but you have to face it for their long term good

Make sure you take with you as much evidence as possible of the lies eg the mental health letters so that you can use it as evidence to limit his contact.

I very much doubt that an amicable co-parenting situation is possible with a man so damaged as this. I expect that when he realises you are serious about leaving he will up the stakes in some way eg suicide attempt

If you do leave he will of course lie to everyone about you and later on that will include the children. At some point you will have to tell them the truth about their father.

So it's easy to see why you don't leave. It is a whole can of worms and a world of pain but it must be faced

Good luck

Mumoftwoyoungkids · 29/10/2014 04:16

Hang on a sec:-

Whenever you questioned him he would clutch his heart, go to the hospital, then announce various damage had been done to his heart?

And all along his heart was fine?

Ummmm - forget everything else and think about how cruel and manipulative that actually is for a minute.

And then imagine 10 years from now how he will deal with a couple of stroppy teenagers.

GoatsDoRoam · 29/10/2014 06:55

Stop "helping" him with the school fundraising. Distance yourself from it completely. Or you will just be implicated when it all turns out to be another scam of his.

SagaNorensLeatherTrousers · 29/10/2014 08:01

Very good point, Mumoftwoyoungkids.

Glastokitty · 29/10/2014 08:26

If I was you I'd be keeping my kids well away from him. He sounds utterly deranged. And cruel!

BalloonSlayer · 29/10/2014 08:28

the school fundraising thing. He really is doing it, I've been helping him a bit.

I have been thinking about this overnight, with a sort of cold horror.

You have been helping him. This means that if he turns out to be lying about it, you will be implicated.

If there is any discrepancy, the PTA will call the Police. I'd guess - though am happy to be corrected - that as you "helped," your bank accounts will get frozen pending an investigation.

And it could be worse: OK, he's not a thief so much as a liar, but what I am worried about is this scenario:

PTA chief: So how are the donations for the raffle for the fete going, MrSnow? Have the local businesses you have been approaching been generous?
MrSnow: Great! I've got a 40" TV, spa break, voucher for ££££, etc etc
PTA chief: Wow! That's fabulous! You've been working so hard!. We've never had a fundraiser as good as you.
MrSnow:

Come the fete and none of the lavish prizes materialise (like your wedding, his savings and his Mum's house), who do you think will get the blame? Do you seriously think this compulsive liar will put his hands up and say they never existed? Or do you think he'll do what he always does and blame YOU. It'll be you who fancied a [hypothetcial] spa break, or put the [hypothetical] telly on EBay or who spent the [hypothetical] vouchers. And then it will be police, and YOU will be the one in trouble.

If you don't tell the PTA now what he is like NOW, I think this is a very real likelihood.

He is a compulsive - and cruel - liar, who has lied about money in the past, and who is now working as a fundraiser. You need to do something to protect yourself.

Limer · 29/10/2014 08:47

What a heartbreaking story.

So glad you have "woken up and smelled the coffee" here OP.

WRT the fundraising, when you say he did similar a few years ago and was brilliant at it, did you see actual proof of that brilliance (and confirmation from third parties), or was it another of his fabrications?

As others have said, please distance yourself from him ASAP on all levels. Your DC are young enough for you to move to a new area and find a new job before they start school.

His poor mother Sad

LoisPumpkinPieLane · 29/10/2014 09:11

Nothing about him is saying "good father" to me. He is utterly untrustworthy. Life with him must be like walking on quicksand.

PoppyField · 29/10/2014 09:12

OP please listen to mamadoc.

She is giving you very clear, sensible advice from a knowledgeable position. Don't get sucked back in. You seem desperate to believe him, when you know everything is lies. You don't have to prove your love for him by believing him.

You have to harden your heart to this man. You cannot 'save' him or protect him from the damage he will do to himself. You can however protect yourself and your children from the damage he will do to you. You must do this.

Now is the time to concentrate on protecting your children - because you can. Expend your time and energy safeguarding them. You have to choose here. Safeguarding your dcs means ditching him. There really is no middle option here.

NickiFury · 29/10/2014 09:33

I can't add much because you've had tons of great advice from knowledgable posters but I think you've endured enough and I would be out if there like a rocket. You're obviously still very invested though and this is clear from the detail you go into about his possible diagnosis. I think both you and your children will end up incredibly damaged in the future by this man and his behaviour, even more so than you already are.

lemonpuffbiscuit · 29/10/2014 09:48

Just a couple of thoughts. Once ready, could you move closer to work so that the 60 mile commute is much less. Secondly could your DH present himself as homeless to the council and therefore be put in temporary accommodation.