Help me deal with this woman!

[Sabellassweatyforehead]

It's pointless going into the past details, but this is just concerning a woman in my family who I am having a really hard time with. There are certain things she does that I need your help with how to react to her when she does them. They are things like:

• ignores me when she enters the room but acknowledges everyone else in the room excitedly
• despite being married herself (but very insecure in her marriage) frequently takes my DH off to do activities together like climbing and rowing while we are on holiday. I am pregnant so cannot do these things at the moment and hubby likes them and likes that he can do them with someone while I get a rest. But she is extremely giggly and flirtatious with him, takes lots of pictures of them together and posts them on FB. She also gets DH to help her do activities and care for her kids (her husband avoids her and is rarely around or available) so much so that I feel sometimes like I am watching a family together - husband, wife and children - even though he is my husband.
• my DH got dressed up in a wetsuit to go surfing and looked really funny, so I said I wanted to take a picture. As I was lining him up against the background, i heard a voice from behind me "oh (her private nickname for him) you look so funny, let me take a picture!" with that she pushed (literally) past me, whipped out her camera phone and stood in front of me and took the picture! As if he was her husband!
• She changes every single conversation to be about her
• when I am with my friends she is incredibly nice to them and overly intimate. She met my best friend for the first time two weeks ago and said she liked her nail polish and could she (my BF) please paint her toenails for her in the bathroom. My friend, surprised, but wanting to be polite, agreed. She then took my BF into the bathroom and locked the door and left me standing outside where she talked and laughed very loudly with her. Afterwards my BF said it was very strange!
• if she cannot get a foot hold in a group conversation or if attention is being directed towards me, she creates a diversion with her kids. Say I am talking about something to the group, in the middle of me talking she will interrupt and say loudly to my DH "please can you take DS3 to the bathroom because he said a minute ago he wants to go." My DH gets up, people shunt around in their chairs, and she uses the distraction to forget what I was saying and talk about herself again.
• she is so dominant. Her voice is very loud and shrill and when she is around I can hear her everywhere. As I am resting a lot with this pregnancy, I can often hear her outside my bedroom announcing to people that she can't believe how long I have been sleeping for and she hopes that nothing is wrong with me, in this sing-songy voice. My traction is usually moody, or to stay in bed longer rather than have to leave the room and face the "attitude" towards my resting that she has set up with the rest of the family

What IS this? And how can I combat it? It is so subtle and subversive and she is so incredibly charming to everyone else that nobody really sees what's going on. I can't exactly say "stop trying to take the photo I was going to take." Or "please don't ask my DH for help with your DCs." Or "why do you say hello to everyone and not to me when you come into the room?" That just feels pathetic and like I care too much. But how do I get a foothold?

Sounds like she's trying to assert her longevity with the family over you, he's obviously always been so attentive to her he's like a stand in husband, and she feels the need to constantly reassert that relationship. No wonder she's insecure, with her husband being like he is.

Really good that you have talked to dh, hope he now makes changes.

Next time she says anything about you sleeping, open the door, and give her your doctor's phone number. Then say, "I thought I explained very simply, but if you find it hard to understand, here is the number of someone who can confirm the medical advice. Now, please keep the noise down outside this room. You wouldn't want to be blamed for any problems with my pregnancy,"

Then shut the door.

Or have similar coping techniques. e.g. she asks your dh to do something, say "Can't you manage?"
OR - "How will you cope once DH has his own kids. He won't be running around for you any longer." Which is probably what she is terrified of.

Or - you could be honest, ask to speak to her, and tell her that obviously DH will stop being a stand in for her DH once you have your baby. Has she thought about how she'll cope.

It sound like an awful situation for her, but she is handling it awfully and taking it out on you.

How awful. SIL is absolutely not your dh's responsibility. And if I was you I would be pointing this out to him. He needs to be showing her that you're his #1.

I don't think there is any subtle way you can fix this.

She is being manipulative and everyone is pussyfooting round to let her.

Do you have other DCs?

Why are you spending time with her (nail varnish scenario).

I think I would be having a remarkably healthy pregnancy and insisting DH spends time with me and sleep when she isn't around.

If she and DBIL aren't divorcing this will prob get worse over time as the DNs get older and DH feels he must step in.

I have seen this dynamic before, (no cultural differences in that case), it is infuriating and you must feel like you wear a big sign over your head like "Outsider". Appealing to her directly would backfire.

However you hold a trump card: pfb. She knows that and will have ramped up her behaviour this year accordingly.
What do SIL and your DH call each other? If she has used DNs to get close you must use that against her. You must emphasise he is Uncle to her boys and dad-to-be for your DC. And drop her first name, call her Aunty. It will look affectionate to outsiders but it categorises her and using it will highlight the age gap.

When someone is playing at being giggly and flirtatious with your H I disagree it looks pathetic or desperate to match her occasionally for being sparkly and tactile.

When your baby is born you may find she is only too willing to give advice and muscle in as the parenting expert'. Easier to stand your ground then if you establish boundaries now. Just remember it will be your baby, so your decisions that count.

Is her DH in prison?

At best the relati

Sorry...

At best the relationship seems to be a pseudo brother/ sister thing going on, with her refusing to budge because she resents you coming in.

How much time do you have to spend with her when not on holiday? Cut this right back.

Ask your husband whether he wants to be I. The delivery room with you, or abseiling with his SiL, because he needs to decide his priorities now. He can't just disappear, leaving you feeling insecure, then swan back in.

And I agree that this could turn into some nightmare MIL- like situation. Tell your DH now if and when you want to see this woman after the birth.

What an awful situation for you op.

What I want to know is where is your bil?

OP, you do seem to be treated by this woman (and your dh and his family) as an outsider in your own marriage.

Your dh needs to support you in all this but he clearly cannot see the wood for the trees because of the long history and background. I think the baby would be a good point to draw a line in the sand with your dh as to how he is going to interact with her going forward.

I think you should frame the way you want him to modify his behaviour in terms of YOU and the BABY needing his time and support and how he should back off from her and give you more respect. The great thing about a baby (esp the first) is that it is universally seen as a socially acceptable sucker of oxygen in the new parents' lives and therefore, your DH has a ready made excuse to distance himself.

But you also need to assert your ground and make it clear that you want him to change his behaviour around her to put you in the centre of the frame rather than at the margins. It is a problem that needs to be sorted now but you are prepared to wait until the baby is here ..

OP are you living in a non-Western culture? I can't get my head around the two month holiday with the inlaws thing.

I would sort this now, however you decide to do it. Because there is a high possibility when your baby is born she's going to push you out there too

^ This.

When I was pg with pfb - MIL started all this pushing out behaviour and undermining very subtle. Occasionally she was so blatant that FIL and DH cotton on. Got worse after birth - she wanted to be called mama and constantly undermined me. Marred the first few years of parenthood.

She calmed down considerably over the year - partly as DH finally saw what she was doing, she also became more conformable with time with being middled aged, we moved further away and had more DC. Even now though it can feel like she needs to compete with me about who my DC favour more - me or her. She's not evil just very insecure at times and seems to instinctively complete with other women.

Try offering up other suggestions when plan are made that don't include you or are for your benefit when clearly not - refuse to be sidelined. Harder when very active activates like rock climbing are involved - but you point out making the most of time before your DC comes and instantly offer another activity that does include you.

When she wants your DH to take her DC to the toilet - immediately agree and act like it's your idea and then take control of the conversation again - as I was saying. Go into picture with your DH when she pushes you aside - oh what a good idea you can e-mail that to us.

Any put downs come back immediately with something - that puts her in her place or pause give a look then ignore and move on. If she makes you angry - ask about her DH ware abouts about rather than lose your temper. Be polite but refuse to be sidelined.

Your DH also need to get that his DC and you his wife come before his DN and SIL - hopefully easier once you DC is born.

Oh and minimise contact as much as possible - being pg and/or with young DC surely you and DH can get out of two months stopping with IL and having to deal with this unnecessary stress?

I spoke to DH and he reminded me that he has "grown up" in the role where BIL is constantly unavailable, so he feels duty bound to help her when she needs it as no one else will, and he has become very attached to the kids. He said that he will work with me to stop her monopolising everything, however.

OP - do you honestly not see how fucked up that is?

How about feeling "duty bound" to put his own fucking wife first? How lovely he has become attached to the children. Maybe he can adopt them? Okay, this isn't the children's fault, but at the same time, what the fuck is he going to do? Play the role of dad to two families? So his own child is only going to get half a father because he is too busy playing dad for his brother's children? what the actual fuck?

This is so overwhelmingly disrespectful to you that it isn't even funny. I have no idea why you put up with this. For real.

His brother's faults are not his sins to rectify. His brother's fuck ups aren't his responsibility to fix. If he wanted to play the role of "saviour" when he was a free agent that's one thing, but to continue to do so when he has a wife and child on the way absolutely begs belief.

Unless you see some serious changes pronto I would seriously advise you to go and spend some time with your own family. Do not accept coming second.

When you need your husband most, she will suddenly have some "drama" that requires your husband. What is he going to do? Tear himself in half? Clone himself? I would bet anything that he puts her needs first - partly out of habit, and partly because you've accepted it until now.

I could not be in this relationship.

But if DH covering for his DB, or making up for DB's selfishness or cold heartedness, goes back to childhood it will be very difficult to change.

You telling him to change might just sound like selfishness (like his DB).

Some couples counseling might work better where an 'expert' would be pointing out to DH what is normal or fair.

Or his DPs telling him to step back might be more likely to work.

I suspect sil behaviour is a symptom of other unhealthy dynamics in the family. I would not approve of my son taking a spousal role with his brother's wife. I would not approve of a son who was disengaged from his wife and children. I would feel sick if I saw my Dil flirt with my other son in this manner.

There is no way I would tolerate a Dil domineering everyone in my home. I would make my feelings about the above very clear. In particular bitchy comments , and ignoring someone in my home wouldn't be tolerated. She would be civil to other family members or she wouldn't be welcome. In your shoes I would be feeling very let down also by the in laws. There is no way they are oblivious to this and it sounds like they also enable her horrible behaviour along with your Dh.

This sounds much more complicated than a pushy sil. The problem is long standing and a established family dynamic. It's going to be very hard to deal with this without the support of your Dh and in laws.

Can you speak to pil about this ? If they expect you to spend time with them it's a reasonable expectation on your part that they will ensure your visit is pleasant. If they're not willing to do that I would rethink spending time. I think you've been horribly let down by all of them.

Would they tolerate similar treatment on visits to you ?