Help me deal with this woman!

[Sabellassweatyforehead]

It's pointless going into the past details, but this is just concerning a woman in my family who I am having a really hard time with. There are certain things she does that I need your help with how to react to her when she does them. They are things like:

• ignores me when she enters the room but acknowledges everyone else in the room excitedly
• despite being married herself (but very insecure in her marriage) frequently takes my DH off to do activities together like climbing and rowing while we are on holiday. I am pregnant so cannot do these things at the moment and hubby likes them and likes that he can do them with someone while I get a rest. But she is extremely giggly and flirtatious with him, takes lots of pictures of them together and posts them on FB. She also gets DH to help her do activities and care for her kids (her husband avoids her and is rarely around or available) so much so that I feel sometimes like I am watching a family together - husband, wife and children - even though he is my husband.
• my DH got dressed up in a wetsuit to go surfing and looked really funny, so I said I wanted to take a picture. As I was lining him up against the background, i heard a voice from behind me "oh (her private nickname for him) you look so funny, let me take a picture!" with that she pushed (literally) past me, whipped out her camera phone and stood in front of me and took the picture! As if he was her husband!
• She changes every single conversation to be about her
• when I am with my friends she is incredibly nice to them and overly intimate. She met my best friend for the first time two weeks ago and said she liked her nail polish and could she (my BF) please paint her toenails for her in the bathroom. My friend, surprised, but wanting to be polite, agreed. She then took my BF into the bathroom and locked the door and left me standing outside where she talked and laughed very loudly with her. Afterwards my BF said it was very strange!
• if she cannot get a foot hold in a group conversation or if attention is being directed towards me, she creates a diversion with her kids. Say I am talking about something to the group, in the middle of me talking she will interrupt and say loudly to my DH "please can you take DS3 to the bathroom because he said a minute ago he wants to go." My DH gets up, people shunt around in their chairs, and she uses the distraction to forget what I was saying and talk about herself again.
• she is so dominant. Her voice is very loud and shrill and when she is around I can hear her everywhere. As I am resting a lot with this pregnancy, I can often hear her outside my bedroom announcing to people that she can't believe how long I have been sleeping for and she hopes that nothing is wrong with me, in this sing-songy voice. My traction is usually moody, or to stay in bed longer rather than have to leave the room and face the "attitude" towards my resting that she has set up with the rest of the family

What IS this? And how can I combat it? It is so subtle and subversive and she is so incredibly charming to everyone else that nobody really sees what's going on. I can't exactly say "stop trying to take the photo I was going to take." Or "please don't ask my DH for help with your DCs." Or "why do you say hello to everyone and not to me when you come into the room?" That just feels pathetic and like I care too much. But how do I get a foothold?

OP - this woman sounds vile. I agree she is jealous of you and the fact you have a loving husband and a baby to look forward to.

Regarding the photo, I would have handed SiL my camera and gone and posed with DH for a photo.

Regarding not acknowledging you - I would call her on it every single time. Say hello to her in a loud voice and with a smile so everyone hears and she will have to say something.

Regarding the toilet issues - does she ask DH because nephews are using a urinal and she can't go into male toilet and nephews are too young to go on their own? If this is the case why can't either male family members take them?

I second the idea of babysitting the nephews so SiL and BiL can send some 'quality' time together. Your DH will feel he is doing uncle stuff and SiL will be out of your way for a day.

I really feel you need to get some boundaries before baby is born too. Do you think she will try to muscle in then?

What do your ILs think of her and also what do they think of their son's behaviour (her DH)?

You and your husband do need to work out a plan to tackle her after the baby is born as that's when the shit could really hit the fan. She could increase her attempts to monopolise him, seeing the baby ad a threat. As you say she uses him against bil so your child and the time your husband will spend with it hampers her attempts to play this game.
Yes your nieces and nephews need their uncle but a newborn needs their father more. Time for your dh to tell his brother if he can't do it for his wide then he at least needs to be more available to his own kids now he has to take a step back.

Wife sorry stupid phone

All these things you've raised together aren't small. And trying to monopolise your BF and shut you out implies it's not just that she wants the family attention - she actively doesn't want you around! She's very jealous of you.

Next time she does something, make sure your DH notices. So if she doesn't greet you, raise your eyebrows at him or whisper 'see?'

Have some code with him so that he starts noticing these things for himself. He shouldn't be colluding with her to shut you out and at the moment, he is, even though he has been, until now, unaware. It's not acceptable that it continues. He needs to detach from her.

I think lots of people are barking up the wrong tree, and OP has a very clear view herself of what is going on and why.

The question is what to do about it?

There msy be a slight cultural difference as well.

I do hope you are not all living together snd this is just a holiday! Just keep calm and subtly avoid her as much as possible.

All the advice about sitting on his lap, saying on FB that your gorgeous hubby can't wait to have your baby, etc sound like advice for a 14 yr old.

well i guess what i'd do is try to pull her up on it subtly.

i'd wait til she warmly greets everyone in the room. then go up to her and give her a big hug saying how lovely it is to see her. no-one else will notice but she'll clock it.

if you have the opportunity to pull her up on crap she says in earshot, do it, but do it kindly.

i know this is going to sound woo woo but, essentially you have to make her see that you understand where she's at, but you're not putting up with it. you can do it kindly and gently, not with vindictiveness. if you do it with negative feeling you won't achieve your aim. do it with her best interest at heart and that will shine through and be much more effective.

Where

Where on earth is her husband?

Why is her husband so unavailable to her, to the point she is obsessed with keeping a connection to the man she has been married to for 20 years?

What's going on there?

Sorry but my curiosity has been well piqued by your last post.

if she was just straight with me about what's going on and her own feelings

I've known a few people like that, it would seem so much easier if they could just be honest with themselves. Do you think it would be possible to try and 'break' her? I don't mean in a nasty way but to try and get her to talk about her feelings, calmly and quietly, probably just the two of you and probably not when she's wendying.

I think your BiL is probably running away from her intense desperation.

Having said all that, if she pushed me out of the way to take the photograph of my husband I was about to take, I'd fucking flatten her

get your dh to read your op, get him on your side

I am struggling to see where BIL is in this?

I'm surprised your PIL's and DH haven't told him to pull his finger out.

Why is he so distant?

As to how to deal with SIL I think things will change when your baby is born. A young child (in your arms) is always the focus of attention and any attempt for her to "steal the show" will only come across badly.

I wouldn't try and play games with her - I think it's just a bit demeaning.

Overall a few curt comments to put her back in her box now and again should help change the dynamic.

Given her behaviour is so predictable you should have no trouble coming up with a few gems in advance, specifically as you have said around BIL.

Good luck - she sounds like a pretty sad and desperate woman to me - quite pitiful really.

I spoke to DH and he reminded me that he has "grown up" in the role where BIL is constantly unavailable, so he feels duty bound to help her when she needs it as no one else will, and he has become very attached to the kids.

That was fine when he was single with no kids of his own. But now he has you and baby to consider, he is, at some point, going to have to make a choice that his own family comes first. He can't be all things to all people, while he can be committed to his bro's kids, he can't effectively play father to 2 families.

I agree with twinklestein. He sounds like he understands but he also needs to understand that he needs to consider your baby too.

Perhaps you work on this bit by bit. Assert what you want immediately after birth. Do you want a fortnight together perhaps without his family around etc? I think some bonding time as a family will establish his role as a father. Then he can act like an uncle a bit later.

Again, regarding her cutting you out. some of it I think you'll have to tolerate and other bits you need to manage in a way that doesn't make you look like a bitch or a teenage girl in a way you have to react to each situation like it is new and without this history, what would you normally say to anyone who barges past to take a photo of your husband? etc. Your dh sounds ok to me but communication is needed. I think your best bet is to take some of his role with her kids so he's not as involved or so you are involved as a couple.

What Twinkle said. He can't play husband to her and father to her kids (even if it is from good intentions/guilt/obligation) when he is married to you. He could take on that role as a single man when he had no one else's feelings to consider. But it has to stop now. If she has problems with her own marriage it is up to her and her alone to sort it out or end it, and your DH filling a BIL-shaped void is only prolonging her dependency/obsession with BIL.

If things don't improve, I would honestly just pack my bags and go home, to show him you are serious about him having to put you first. I see no point in you sitting watching him playing happy families with her.

And yes, where is BIL in all of this? Why is he so unavailable? If the marriage is basically non-existent, why don't they just divorce?

I also wouldn't do joint holidays again for a very long time.

How long have you been married OP? From what I can gather your SIL and husband have known each other a long time, long before you came on the scene....is that correct?

Your DH is out of line. It is one thing to support the children but he is not there to fill a void left by his brother. He is your DH not hers. I can't help but ask if there are cultural differences involved? My BIL is Lebanese and what you described sounds similiar to they way his family operate.

is she from a different culture?

Just read the whole thread.

I understand from your update that it isn't a sexual dynamic going on, but I think you are wrong about it being about BIL per she.

If it was only about that, why would she need to be horrible to you? Undermining you, ignoring you etc?

IMO it's about the fact that she has had your DH at her beck and call for years and you coming onto the scene has pushed her nose out of joint.

She dislikes you so much, she even tried to manipulate your bf on side. She showed you that she can exclude you there too.

I think I would be saying things like 'wow' and 'how rude' under my breath when she barged in on photographs being taken or ignored me. I would probably laugh and give a shake of my head too.

Or go the whole hog with sarcasm (I love sarcasm personally)

She might not want your dh in a sexually way, but she does want him to have her in the top spot over you, and your dh is helping her achieve this.

I would sort this now, however you decide to do it. Because there is a high possibility when your baby is born she's going to push you out there too. If she starts taking your baby away from you and playing "mummy" then it's going to be hard to stop if you haven't already got your dh on side. She'll dress it up as giving you a break or you not coping but this could be like the worst MIL stories you read in here.

Is she and your DH's family from a different culture to you, OP?

Where is BiL and if he isn't there then when is he coming on this two month holiday?

Sabellassweatyforehead
Not to put too fine a point on it, is there any chance that there has been anything i.e. a fling between them in the past or that its going on now??

I had this with my ex. His SIL used to blank me every time I went round, would not acknowledge me at all, truly bizarre. Then one evening I heard her in the living room telling him that "she didn't have a boyfriend at all" - in this really winey, smouldering voice. I just refused to go round there after that.

Personally think that you should cut them off for a while (and make sure that your husband is in on this) until her husband asks whats wrong. Then tell him loud and clear. And then he'll have to deal with her.

I think it's quite common for a divorced wife / or a wife who's marriage is in trouble to cling onto his family for status and security reasons. However , your sil doesn't appear to be doing this. There's a contradiction between being obsessed with bil but using your husband to do it. That's bound to add fuel to the fire. Her behaviour towards her own husband is pretty disgusting , flirting with his brother ect. It doesn't sound like someone who's desperately clinging on. It sounds calculated , demeaning and cruel

You really don't know what is motivating sil behaviour , you only know what she's doing. What she's doing is being flirtatious with your husband , putting you down , and treating him like a spouse. Things are often exactly what they seem.

Can you speak to pil about this ? Because really , when she's making bitch comments about you sleeping , whoever she's saying it to should show disapproval. In part it's happening because the entire family are allowing it.

OP, you said this: he has "grown up" in the role where BIL is constantly unavailable, so he feels duty bound to help her when she needs it as no one else will. I disagree - not his responsibility and if he continues to make it his responsibility then he stops her from sorting out her marriage. She sounds jealous of you too.