Family adjusting to SAHM returning to work

[Joysmum]

Being a SAHM suited me and our family. I missed out on my mum when I was growing up due to her long hours. My extended family have benefitted too as my MIL was seriously debilitated by a serious heart attack at a young age and then died 7 months later, followed by my FIL being diagnosed with dementia which ended his life 2 months ago. The trouble came some years ago when I decided I wanted a career of my own.

DH has been able to build a good career for himself because he could concentrate on doing that with no responsibilities or regular hours to keep at home. Him fulfilling his career aspirations gave good rewards.

He used to say he was doing all the long, unpredictable, unpaid hours for us...that was until last year when I asked him if he honestly believed if he didn't have us he'd be less committed to his job and work less? Mumsnet made me see the truth, before that I felt I ought to be grateful, that feeling resentful of being trapped in a life I didn't want was ungrateful. Of course then dawned on him I was right and those declarations stopped. He loves his job, it pays well, and makes him feel like he's achieved in life. He'd always said if I wanted him to change jobs he would, he knows I would never call his bluff.

Now, I want to work, I want a career of my own. I'm pushing hard and fast to accelerate the time it takes to get qualified, I'm actually working longer hours than him. Despite his assurances that he'd step up with the household responsibilities, he hasn't. It's not because of anything sinister, he just genuinely believed the amount of household responsibility he'd taken on since I started studying was actually more than half.

Things came to a head as I asked him to consider the hours he spent last week doing chores, and what hadn't been done in that time and how long those things would have taken (that's even ignoring the occasional chores like windows and cupboards) it's suddenly dawned on him that what he's been doing is not enough.

This week has been dreadful, he's been so down as his job has required long hours and he realises what a struggle it will be to continue being as committed at work as he has been and take up even just half the household responsibilities (although by rights he ought to be doing more given I'm doing more hours than him). This will also cut out any quality family time together like we were used to at weekends because that's when he'll need to do much of his share of chores.

We're now at that stage where it's got to dawn on him that he can't cope, that the only way to fit it all in is to either lose our quality family time, or for him to cut back on his unpaid additional hours. This of course means he's got to really face up to the fact that his excessive commitment to work really is for him, that we've just benefitted from what he wanted to do anyway. What affect this would cutting back have on his current job and continued career development?

I'm now wondering if the answer is for me to continue to put him first and just work part time from home when I'm qualified so I can do the majority of the chores, he remains flexible in his availability at work and we still get quality family time to play hard. A cleaner isn't an option. There's no reason financially for me to work, it's something I want to do. I never thought I'd be a SAHM, I always thought I'd have a good career.

He's really struggling emotionally this week (with the realisation of just how much his commitment to his career has impacted on my life and will continue to need) and I'm torn between feeling vindicated in my feelings (resentment, but then feeling selfish because of being judged 'lucky' by others who don't understand how much of myself I've given up, or the enrichment it's added to DH's life) and in worrying about the impact on our lives of me expecting him to take on at least half the responsibilities at home.

I'll also admit, I have a massive chip on my shoulder from social attitudes that I'm living off my husband, am not setting a good example to my DD and how 'lucky' I am being a SAHM. Ive resented it, don't feel fulfilled, feel trapped and have done for years. I'm a people pleaser though. I guess being stung by the attitudes of others and that resentment has made me want to aim for a well respected career so I can prove to myself, and others, that I'm very capable and can be a success and who has the self respect to not live off her husband! A well respected career that i enjoy and could do from home part time would fit in with my need to achieve, with his career aspirations and still allow for quality family time.

Mind you, I'll admit there's the petulant child side of me that wants him to find this hard, wants him and the world to truly appreciate how much of myself I've given up over the years, to value my input over the years. Him having to do the same now and compromise (although not give up) on his wants, will show the wider world the effects of him having to adjust and see how me compromising on my wants over the years has allowed our family to have a better quality of life.

It's just a rant really

Joysmum it's nice to hear you talking about your DH so positively. FWIW it sounds like you have both been working incredibly hard and it is frustrating as paid employment has a very tangible and obvious benefit - a pay check - in the way that looking after a house, building projects, elderly relatives and DCs doesn't.

I just feel that it might be simpler and more effective to have a heartfelt conversation with him about it. Take away all the elements that could be seen as noise to your objective - your resentment at being a SAHM, your feeling that he should step up to the plate without being told - take away all that and just tell him what you want.

I don't think it's unreasonable to state that now your DD is older and you are no longer caring for his parents you want to work more. In order to do this you are asking him to work 5 days a week and take on a list of tasks.

If he agrees to do that then it's a huge sea change. Give him some space to take on those tasks and let them do them the best way he can.

Maybe you should run the list of joint tasks past us then we can see if some of them can be pared down. No more talk of cleaners from me - honest .

Op. Almost all your responsibilities and daily jobs you've listed so far can be outsourced successfully. I know this. I work full time well as having 2 rental apartments, and I'm finalising my own new build project. I have 2dcs under 5. Its all doable but you don't have to do it all on your own.

My dh isn't even at home 40% of the time. He is a globe trotting exec and I would not dare demand he be home to do his share of the chores (within reason) as he works really really hard and be can afford to pay for cleanersd

You need to think smart and behave smart. It's what successful people do. The more successful you are. The more you delegate if you can afford to. It's the secret to happiness.

Reset your definitions of happiness and see if you can picture alternatives scenarios. You have no choice really, else you can kiss goodbye to your career because your situation would be impossible to hold down a demanding career otherwise!!

Try and think practically and constructively. You can do it!!

Sorry if this has already been suggested, but if your DD is now older, perhaps she could help with regular cleaning hours for extra pocket money. Two or three hours a week might make all the difference to you and it would mean you don't have to bring in a cleaner.

I have had similar issues to you Joysmum, spending many years as a SAHM while my DH worked all hours in a stressful job. I did do various term time jobs while the DCs were small, but all the chores and childcare were left to me. My DCs are adults now and unfortunately my DH died six years ago from Leukaemia, whether brought on by stress I will never know, but it saddens me to think of all the family time we never had because work was prioritised above having days out together. I am in a new relationship now and have recently returned to "proper" work. It is a struggle to cope with the many demands on my time, my DP works full time and doesn't generally see the mess at home (he will do jobs if I ask, but there is a fine line between that and nagging imo), my DCs still live at home and are quite demanding considering they are old enough to look after themselves (being a SAHM for much of their lives is not always a good thing!), I also have a BTL property, but have got managing agents for it now and we have three cats. My mum needs my help now as she is not very mobile but I have come to the decision that I must do something for me. Obviously I am helping my mum but I am trying not to let it become the main thing I do in my life. The thing is, my job doesn't pay that well, I know that in truth it is hardly worth my while driving there, paying the parking fee, and paying tax on my small salary, but I am actually enjoying being back in the working world, the banter, the office politics etc, it's given me a whole new dimension. We are in the middle of renovating our house and have no outside help with chores, but I'm now looking for a gardener and, once the house is finished, a cleaner. Not really worth it as I will earn less than I pay out, but working again has given me confidence and self esteem and that feels good.

DD's birthday today

Got another 6 months all clear from my mum's cancer too

Just heading off to the shops to buy all the bits in for the traditional family birthday breakfast in bed.

I'm going to see how things go for the next couple of weeks. DH has 2 weeks holiday booked. He knows I can't take much time off studying and he and DD will be spending some much needed quality time together. With me studying full time and him not working, he'll easily be able to see how much work there is and draw his own conclusions, if not, the spreadsheet will be produced!

Cheers everyone for letting me rant and clarify my thoughts

The pair of you could think more about some of your choices. You have too much on right now. That's a fact regardless of the emotional issues about being a SAHM and how it's viewed, and your BTL achievements.
Even if other people think you could have less on if you had a cleaner etc, fact is, it's your choice and there is too much.

So, frankly I read how much you have on and just thought "then why start a building project on your home ?"

You can't do everything.

I think it's your husband turn to support you now. You've got a lot going on and you're obviously the heart beat in the family.

If he is as great as you say I'm certain that he won't mind lending more of himself to your situation. Tell him it's an investment into your marriage. Good luck with the studying. Seems like you have a pretty nice life.

of chores you do some can be outsourced such as shopping online
I still don't understand the worry about having a cleaner in your house when you are there.

BTL - that is investment so you were working on something.

AS someone said above you can't have what you do now + 35-40 hours working week.

Couples who don't suffer exhaustion when both work full-time work as a team. If my partner worked every spare hour + saturday and didn't see it fit to cut down on his hours to help me I would assume he doesn't like spending time with me, helping me and really is not interested in family wellbeing.

OP - your problem is that you are a control freak.

Why on earth are you trying to do a house renovation at the same time as "fitting in 3 years of study into 18 months?"

That's the first thing id bin - renovations can wait.

Other than that, what the others said - if you are insisting on doing everything yourself then you won't get everything done between the 2 of you. Your "16 hour a week" assessment is basically saying there are 2 working days full of stuff to be done around the house - so even if your DH drops a day you would both need to work all Saturday to get things done. (Ofc if you are including things like "cooking dinner" in that - get a grip! What do you think working people do?)

Your DH overworking is a separate issue, and one that you should pursue separately from your own ambitions. I agree with the PP who said that you're unlikely to have success asking him to change himself so you can indulge your hobbies (animals, btls etc) - unfair as it may be, what's in it for him after 15 years? If you separate the 2 issues you may have more luck.

You chose to go back to work. You chose to study to develop your career. You chose accelerated study and attempting 3 years worth of degree (or similar) in 18 months to go back to work - that's hard work. You chose to manage your own properties, rather than employing a managing agent. You chose to have many animals that you need and want to care for personally. You chose not to have a cleaner and, I guess, impose all chores on family members (does your DD do many chores, maybe that's a way of getting more done?)

Your husband chose to work long hours, when he was and still is sole breadwinner. He also tries to do quite a lot of chores by the sounds of it, although maybe not 50% and maybe not to your satisfaction.

It's all about YOU deciding what's happening, what you want/don't want, imposing conditions and expecting your DH to fall into line. You've had sensible advice from posters who do juggle two careers and family. You're not interested in solutions, only badgering your DH to work less. Which is the real crux. If you're not prepared to accept professional help at home, then you'll just have to shoulder it all, as it's your choice to do so.

We both work full time in professional careers, 2 toddler DCs, we both with work long hours (DH often abroad at short notice) and some weekends - salaried, so no overtime. We have no family help. We have a cleaner six hours a week (who does ironing), occasional gardener, work shirts laundered, nanny and nursery for childcare in our case.

My advice? Accept help.

OP,
I think that you are so resentful of your husband that you almost want him to suffer do that he can appreciate how hard you have worked. That is why you say that a cleaner is not an option.
You want him to have to make sacrifices as you have had to do.
I think that you are extremely angry with everyone, particularly your dh

YANBU to want your own career. That's entirely fair, and he needs to chip in with his fair share of the housework. However, you don't get to dictate whether or not he cuts back his work to do this, or he eats into his leisure time. That's up to him.

You would be crazy to cut back on your own career plans to make more time for the housework that he doesn't want to do. It's perfectly possible for both partners to have proper careers and still get stuff done.

We both work FT. DH has his own business and works long hours to keep it going, often including evening and weekends. I am the main breadwinner, and also work full time, though my job is fortunately very flexible. Despite earning more, I don't do loads of overtime, and therefore do the lion's share at home. It's fine. I still have plenty of time for MN to relax.

Oh, forgot to mention that I'm doing a part time master's degree as well. I don't get much free time when there is an essay to be written, but it's fine the rest of the time! :)

YANBU at all for wanting to work. YAalsoNBU for expecting him to cut down his hours to give more than just money to family life.
BUT YABU to expect him to do this unless you are willing to also cut down on some of your commitments in order to compromise. And YABmassivelyU to expect him to read your mind and come to this conclusion on his own.
You have to compromise. Both of you.
Hope it all works out for you.

You already sound like you have a pretty f/t life, even if it doesn't involve working for a company. Managing properties, renovations, studying, animals (beyond ordinary pets), running the home so your husband can work 6 days a week, all of this is a very full life and not one you should feel embarrassed about or like you are living off someone else.

Everyone is right- you can't have this f/t life, plus a f/t job, even if your husband does a bit more about the house.

I also can't see the point of getting him to give up working a day on the weekend only to spend it doing chores all day. Not unless you have to for money reasons.

The idea of paying your dd to do some cleaning is a good one, I know someone who got their 17 year old doing an hour or so a day in exchange for living money although this was for a slightly different reason (child going off the rails, so earning his keep was for this benefit).

I work f/t, have two children and can't afford a cleaner or online shopping. I have had to lower my standards quite a bit and aim for healthy and happy rather than pristine (clothes clean, kids in right place at right time, but floor rarely mopped).

At least having vented on here, hopefully you can see some of the options before you. I agree with everyone who has said the issue of your husband's workaholic tendencies is a little different than the issue of how you can work f/t; the weekend working needs discussion, for a busy period I can understand it, but as a way of life- no. I still think even if he was home Sat and Sun then working your current life and f/t is too much, I couldn't work my job and do all those extra things, I would collapse with exhaustion. These things have to be sustainable.

Joy - just read this for the first time. Although TBH I've read all your posts and only skimmed the others.

Your DH works unreasonable hours. He got away with it while you were a SAHM mum, but you are allowed to want more. Having agreed to it once doesn't mean you are bound to it forever! At a minimum, he needs to cut down or stop the weekend work, especially as there's no real need for it apart from him wanting to, it's almost like his work is his hobby. Quite frankly hobbies only happen when they don't negatively impact on the family life this much.

Your work - managing the BTLs is already a part time job. That's why people are EMPLOYED to do those sorts of things. Looking after animals - same thing. That's why there are dog groomers, etc out there. Especially as you say that having the chickens etc is part of YOUR quality of life choice. So in all honesty, you are ALREADY working part time, aren't you?! If you want to continue to do it all, then you have to include it as part of your working life. So any other paid work you do will have to include it. You say he is working too much - if you try to continue the BTL AND work full time, then you will be guilty of exactly the same as he has been doing.

You may do it better than others do, but then the price is taking time out of any other paid employment. Otherwise you work full time, and pay someone else to do it - yes, it may seem to be a waste of money, as you are no better off financially. But as you've said before, you don't NEED to work, you're ok financially. You WANT to. So make a decision, what do you WANT to do more - work full time, or work part time and do the other bits of part time work you've already taken on?

I do understand you not wanting a cleaner. I can imagine a number of crimes/circumstances that would leave me refusing to have an outsider in my home.

So split the duties up:

Animals - hire someone to look after them, clean out the pens, walk them (not sure what other animals you have!) regularly.

Clothing - use a drop off service. Drop them off, and they can be laundered, ironed, and you just go and pick them up.

DD's clubs - again - you want her to continue them, then you have to either include it as part of working hours, or you work out a way for her to get there herself. Or you cut down the work by lift sharing - 1 week you take your DD and another child, next week the other parent takes them.

Clothes shopping - buy online, let your DD go on her own. Buy more items but on less frequent trips.

Do you see? There is just NO WAY you can expect to have everything the way it was. Neither can your DH though, you are very right there.

Think like a male

Stay in office working ? (or even socialising with work colleagues)
or
go home and do household chores ?

I know what i would choose

If you were male, what would you choose ?

Another one who thinks you want your husband to physically experience what it is like to the 'wife', and pick up the household slack, to the extent that you have.

DH and I are both professionals, although I 'only' work Mondays-Thursdays.

We have no family locally, so, like zillions of other professional couples with children across the planet, we rely on outsourced help.

We have a live-in au pair, a cleaner and a gardener.

Your house might be your sanctuary, and that might be your number priority, bar none. For most families in this situation, quality family time is the number one priority, and the only way to ensure it, is to outsource some of the sh!twork.

No thanks, to spending our precious weekends donning the marigolds, and scrubbing the skirting.

Of course there are daily jobs that always need doing, but there's also so much that a cleaner can help you with.

By all means, stick to your guns on this point. But accept that your DH might also, understandably, stick to his. I'm sure he'd far rather do something vaguely enjoyable/rewarding, like working a few extra hours, than come home and Hoover.

Who wouldn't, male or female?

Your dh should reduce his hours. You've said he can, so he should. Might be waiting a long time (forever) for him to realise that's the answer, though. If he's not getting paid and doesn't need to be there he's having eztra leisure time not working?

I am obviously from a different world (I don't know anyone who essentially has extra houses ) so to me all the btl and renovation stuff sounds surplus to requirement. Especially assuming you don't need the cash...or at least wouldn't if working full time. So sack it. Sack it off, have dh reduce his hours, and you working full time.
You can't have it all, even with dh's reduced hours. The thought of it all gives me a headache. I'm a dirty leftie but all that for some extra capital...nah! I totally get the animal thing, though. Mine wouldn't be going anywhere. They're not commodities.

Throw in the towel on the extra curricular stuff and enjoy your family and work. Dh can do the same.

Fwiw I don't think you need a cleaner. It's perfectly possible to have two full timers, multiple kids and hobbies so long as you're organised and expectations aren't too high.

It sounds like this is all about your wish to change your DH, who unfortunately isn't present in this discussion. And, in the end, the only people we can really change are ourselves.

But as the one thing you want is for him to change, you've got to talk to him. It's all very nice to think that he should read your mind, but he obviously isn't very good at that or just does not want to spend his weekends doing boring housework when he could be doing the job he enjoys.

You say you love him so maybe you will just have accept that that is the way he is and jettison something else.

So if he doesn't want to take on the housework, you could maybe make a list of all the lovely things you have in your life right, and the additional things you want to have, and put them in order of priority. Whichever comes at the bottom of that list gets jettisoned.

Have to say I don't agree with the above. I don't see why the OP should just accept that her dh doesn't like housework so she needs to carry on doing more than half and give up something of "hers" so that she can have any chance of a career.
He's working for free ffs. A few hours would go a long way. It's not a personality transplant she's after just dropping a few hours of free work at weekends.

The "change" thing only really applies about hoping he'll "get it" all by himself. He won't. He hasn't yet and more skeptically it's inconvenient for him to "realise", really.

Yes, I agree Dirtybadger, but I'm working from the principle that the only people we can change are ourselves and on the facts that the OP has given us.

With the ops list of jobs that need doing it us obvious that with the extra study her dh will know that something has to give. It does not take a rocket scienctist to work that out. It seems to me as though the dh does not want to drop the extra hours or he is just not that supportive in the study for fear of rocking his cushy life style that he has become accustomed to. Time for a blatant heart to heart talk and none of this "hoping the penny drops" in relation to the extra tasks. The penny won't drop because ignorance is bliss.

I'm not sure I would describe someone who works long hours 6 days a week as having a "cushy lifestyle".

Generally people work such long hours for a number of reasons:

• Their work is actually so demanding that they physically need to in order to complete the tasks they have to do.
• They are insecure about their abilities so feel that by putting in extra hours they will be indispensible to their company
• They do it to avoid home life which is unpleasant to them for some reason

None of those, to my mind, are the mark of an overly happy person.

BTW I'm absolutely not saying that the DH shouldn't cut back and that the OP shouldn't ask him to. I just think that working such long hours smacks almost of an addiction to work and one that will be hard to break.

It would be good to have a look at the list of tasks that apparently need doing all the time as well. I work 4 days a week and DH f/t and we don't spend all weekend doing tasks ( although the gently crumbling nature of our property reflects that somehow).