Family adjusting to SAHM returning to work

[Joysmum]

Being a SAHM suited me and our family. I missed out on my mum when I was growing up due to her long hours. My extended family have benefitted too as my MIL was seriously debilitated by a serious heart attack at a young age and then died 7 months later, followed by my FIL being diagnosed with dementia which ended his life 2 months ago. The trouble came some years ago when I decided I wanted a career of my own.

DH has been able to build a good career for himself because he could concentrate on doing that with no responsibilities or regular hours to keep at home. Him fulfilling his career aspirations gave good rewards.

He used to say he was doing all the long, unpredictable, unpaid hours for us...that was until last year when I asked him if he honestly believed if he didn't have us he'd be less committed to his job and work less? Mumsnet made me see the truth, before that I felt I ought to be grateful, that feeling resentful of being trapped in a life I didn't want was ungrateful. Of course then dawned on him I was right and those declarations stopped. He loves his job, it pays well, and makes him feel like he's achieved in life. He'd always said if I wanted him to change jobs he would, he knows I would never call his bluff.

Now, I want to work, I want a career of my own. I'm pushing hard and fast to accelerate the time it takes to get qualified, I'm actually working longer hours than him. Despite his assurances that he'd step up with the household responsibilities, he hasn't. It's not because of anything sinister, he just genuinely believed the amount of household responsibility he'd taken on since I started studying was actually more than half.

Things came to a head as I asked him to consider the hours he spent last week doing chores, and what hadn't been done in that time and how long those things would have taken (that's even ignoring the occasional chores like windows and cupboards) it's suddenly dawned on him that what he's been doing is not enough.

This week has been dreadful, he's been so down as his job has required long hours and he realises what a struggle it will be to continue being as committed at work as he has been and take up even just half the household responsibilities (although by rights he ought to be doing more given I'm doing more hours than him). This will also cut out any quality family time together like we were used to at weekends because that's when he'll need to do much of his share of chores.

We're now at that stage where it's got to dawn on him that he can't cope, that the only way to fit it all in is to either lose our quality family time, or for him to cut back on his unpaid additional hours. This of course means he's got to really face up to the fact that his excessive commitment to work really is for him, that we've just benefitted from what he wanted to do anyway. What affect this would cutting back have on his current job and continued career development?

I'm now wondering if the answer is for me to continue to put him first and just work part time from home when I'm qualified so I can do the majority of the chores, he remains flexible in his availability at work and we still get quality family time to play hard. A cleaner isn't an option. There's no reason financially for me to work, it's something I want to do. I never thought I'd be a SAHM, I always thought I'd have a good career.

He's really struggling emotionally this week (with the realisation of just how much his commitment to his career has impacted on my life and will continue to need) and I'm torn between feeling vindicated in my feelings (resentment, but then feeling selfish because of being judged 'lucky' by others who don't understand how much of myself I've given up, or the enrichment it's added to DH's life) and in worrying about the impact on our lives of me expecting him to take on at least half the responsibilities at home.

I'll also admit, I have a massive chip on my shoulder from social attitudes that I'm living off my husband, am not setting a good example to my DD and how 'lucky' I am being a SAHM. Ive resented it, don't feel fulfilled, feel trapped and have done for years. I'm a people pleaser though. I guess being stung by the attitudes of others and that resentment has made me want to aim for a well respected career so I can prove to myself, and others, that I'm very capable and can be a success and who has the self respect to not live off her husband! A well respected career that i enjoy and could do from home part time would fit in with my need to achieve, with his career aspirations and still allow for quality family time.

Mind you, I'll admit there's the petulant child side of me that wants him to find this hard, wants him and the world to truly appreciate how much of myself I've given up over the years, to value my input over the years. Him having to do the same now and compromise (although not give up) on his wants, will show the wider world the effects of him having to adjust and see how me compromising on my wants over the years has allowed our family to have a better quality of life.

It's just a rant really

[ChickenFajitaAndNachos]

You need to pay for help if your DH and yourself can't keep on top of things or don't want to do the chores. This could be in the form of help for the in-laws, other properties or your own home. You can't create more hours in the day but you can get rid of things you and your DH actually have to do. It's as simple as that.

[dreamingbohemian]

How many hours does he work per week now? What would you like him to cut back to?

Will his career suffer from doing this or is it really just his call?

He may actually benefit from having some limits on his work hours and work more productively -- just as with sahp, work expands to fit the time you have.

I think it's completely fair to ask him to do this. I just question whether it's enough to take care of everything.

[cailindana]

What I'm hearing is that you essentially took on the role of carer for everyone - your ILs, your DH, your DD, yourself, while your DH had one thing to focus on - his career. Now your ILs have sadly passed away and your DD is older the pressure if off and you're realising that you have sacrificed too much for people who don't appreciate it. You want to rebalance things but it's scary. Added to that, your DH has become so comfortable with things that he can't readjust well either and you're feeling both resentful and guilty about that.
It's hard changing from one way of life to another. Your DH will struggle just as much as you. You need to sit down and make a plan together and try not to get bogged down in how hard it all is. It is totally doable, but things will have to change - attitudes, expectations, way of working, everything really. You need to get your head around that.

[careeristbitchnigel]

OP, forgive me but you are being pathetic about a cleaner

Have you ever had your home burgled ? I suspect that if you had been burgled or had ever dealt with victims of dwelling burglaries (especially involving violence or if it happened while you were asleep) that you might not be so judgemental of the OP

[careeristbitchnigel]

OP, would you be prepared to consider a cleaner if you were actually there in the house with them ? You could do your household/project paperwork etc and discreetly supervise until you built up some confidence in the person to leave them alone ?

[Eggsaregoodforyou]

The advice you want is how to force your husband to cut back on his working hours so that you can all enjoy the lifestyle, that his hard work outside of the home and your within it, have afforded you, whilst you also now enjoying the financial and other rewards of a career.

Unfortunately the is no obvious or ideal solution to this, as every family with two parents working know that sacrifices will have to be made, be they financial, career wise, relationship wise, or reduction in time an detention given to the DC.

It may be OP that there simply is no answer to this, you cannot keep the buy to lets, the animals, your DD's extra curricular activities, the renovation of you own home, the career and for your husband to reduce his working hours, as you would like.

I also think you are being a bit unreasonable in the sense that you, and your dd have also enjoyed the fruits of your husbands single minded focus on his work for all these years and how was he to know how bitterly you resented being at home.

You can't have it all.

[scallopsrgreat]

I agree with cailindana except I don't think it's Joysmum that needs to get her head around things, it's her DH.

You are not being at all unreasonable in wanting a career of your own Joysmum, remember that. And the household is not your sole responsibility. If your DH's career suffers because of this well, welcome to the real world where careers suffer because of family responsibilities.

[careeristbitchnigel]

OP I feel for you. I'm currently doing 45 hours a week working two jobs plus studying for a new job. DH works a lot and we have a 4 year old. Over the summer we had 4 x foreign students for 2 months which was a lot of work and we will soon be getting two more - this is basically a business at home. I have a cake decorating business, run the household and do the majority of the gardening. We also have an overgrown and neglected allotment.
A lot of the time I feel like a hamster in a wheel. I get up early in the morning to do housework adn try to make the most efficient use of time that I can.

[Joysmum]

Difficult to know what you are asking then op! You've had a lot of good advice. Were you just wanting to rant?

Yes, I wanted to rant, thats why I said it in the last line of my OP. I can take some of the suggestions be which will help, but won't save much time.

Tak1ngchances once again I can only say I'm not getting a cleaner in and am not prepared to share, but our sanctuary might mean more to us than others.

Everything could be solved by him working less hours. He doesn't need to, he wants to and has spent a lot of time justifying that by saying it was for us. It wasn't, he wants to.

Daisyflowerchain you've really hit a nerve there. I was going through the redundancy consultancy period and when the new owner was sat on my desk talking through my role I got the call saying MIL was in hospital after a serious heart attack and could I go to make sure she was ok and FIL being supported as DH was in London. I did, I was made redundant and found out soon after I was pregnant. She was ill for 6 months before she died. I held the in-laws together. FIL didn't drive, was was taking him over, supporting him too as she was a carer for her elderly FIL and my FIL couldn't do anything, not even cook, as she was the old fashioned housewife and it was her job in their household. She was also a carer for her FIL who lived with them.

So instead of DH demanding I go back to work after a year, he expected I became responsible for my in-laws so grandad didn't need to go into a home. DH couldn't, wouldn't have wanted to anyway, he was working.

Then FIL was diagnosed with dementia. He didn't need to go in a home quite so early because I supported him, I was the one going to find him when he'd leave the house to wander in PJ's and DH and SIL didn't want him to go in a home.

As I said previously, he died a couple of months back and my DD is more independent so this is my time and I don't believe I'm being unreasonable in wanting to follow my career aspirations now.

I don't believe I'm being unrealistic when I say that if he worked normal hours I could fit everything in, it's no more than other families do with both partners working full time plus overtime.

[prettywhiteguitar]

So really this thread is about your dh working 6 days a week ?

Mine does and it is hard, my friends does and we often moan. But we do accept outside help.

I rent out two of our properties too, you just can't do it all you have to delegate. Also I dropped a day of work, I was exhausted. Unfortunately my dp cannot change his hours but does help an awful lot when he is at home. We do chores at the weekend and have family time. It is all possible.

I think you need to lay down the law with your dh

[Twinklestein]

So basically you want to maintain everything exactly as it was when you were a SAHM but also work and study more than full-time? That's a circle that can't be squared. If you have anxiety issues around people in your home and a need to keep animals then that's what is limiting your choices here, not your DH's working hours.

Totally agree LizLimone - exactly what I was exactly what I was going to say.

Essentially OP you want to maintain your life as SAHM, housewife, property manager, people and animal carer and now add in FT work. That's not possible as you have found. I think the problem here is as much with you as your husband: your expectations are totally unrealistic.

It's reasonable to ask your h to work less hours, but, then equally, surely you have to be prepared to do the same. I don't think you can ask him to cut his hours if you refuse to cut any of yours.

If you won't get a property manager and you won't offload your animals, you could get counselling for the anxiety issues that prevent you allowing anyone into the house.

Otherwise I can't see your career working. There aren't actually enough hours in the day to do all the things that you insist must be done within the family.

I think you're going to have to choose: either your career or continuing the way you've always lived and don't seem to be able to let go of.

[Twinklestein]

Have you ever had your home burgled ? I suspect that if you had been burgled or had ever dealt with victims of dwelling burglaries (especially involving violence or if it happened while you were asleep) that you might not be so judgemental of the OP

Of course we've been burgled, not only in London but abroad too. Not by the cleaner though.

[Joysmum]

I think you need to lay down the law with your dh

I really don't want to. I want him to realise for himself. I said in my OP: -

We're now at that stage where it's got to dawn on him that he can't cope, that the only way to fit it all in is to either lose our quality family time, or for him to cut back on his unpaid additional hours. This of course means he's got to really face up to the fact that his excessive commitment to work really is for him, that we've just benefitted from what he wanted to do anyway

It's either that or I don't go full time.

[Eggsaregoodforyou]

OP I have a career. I also have two DC, a largish home and some others stuff such as an elderly relief needing help.

For the last ten years I have turned down opportunities for career progression simply because, as other posters have said, you can't circle the square or suchlike!!

Despite me being Ina. Qualified professional role my DH is the way higher earner and so it made sense for me to take the step back.

To provide us with the lifestyle we have he has to work 12 hour days 5 days a week, this has not been easy for any of us but needs must.

I could turn round now and say I wanted to progress my career but I don think that would automatically result in DP being able to work any less, if he cut his hours down then his business would suffer or he would kill himself trying to squash the same amount of work into less hours.

Obviously we don't know what your DH does for a living but maybe it is not quite a simple as him simply reducing his hours???

[Joysmum]

I fully maintain that if he only worked reasonable hours plus a bit of overtime, we would manage.

Why are most people focussing once again on what more I can do rather than seeing that this is something he can solve. That's the way it's been for the past 13 years, I'm the one who has compromised on my life.

I thought men nowadays were meant to take an equal share in raising children and the household?

Why is it then that many of you believe I am being unreasonable in my expectations for this in my marriage?

[prettywhiteguitar]

Humm realise by himself ??? My dp is very sensitive and caring it still needed spelling out to him that we needs a cleaner and that he has to sort an engineer when the boiler broke in the rented flat. We had a row I explained about joint responsibility after it being my job for a long time. He got it.

You will be waiting a long time unless you speak up....

[prettywhiteguitar]

We needed a cleaner that should be. ! He wasn't keen but we love her now

[melissa83]

I dont think its unreasonable him doing 50% but in rl most people manage that and both work full time + and it doesnt mean they have no family time.

[TheFowlAndThePussycat]

OP, I agree that your DH's working hours are unreasonable, but it is not fair on either of you to wait for him to say something.

Either he knows, in which case he is not going to say anything and waiting for him to do so is going to drive you mad.

Or he doesn't know and you are expecting him to mind-read.

Believe me, I've been there, something seems to me to be bloody obvious, but DH either genuinely doesn't see it, or is in denial. Either way there's no avoiding actually talking about it.

[Twinklestein]

why are most people focussing once again on what more I can do rather than seeing that this is something he can solve. That's the way it's been for the past 13 years, I'm the one who has compromised on my life

But you're not apparently prepared to compromise now on what you need to to get your life to where you want it to go.

There are many women on here whose husbands won't listen or step up, but it seems to me your husband has. Whether he is truly able to cut back his hours and maintain his position I don't know, my husband certainly couldn't, although it may be possible in your husband's case. However he is only half the problem here - the problem is as much with your working hours, and the things you insist on doing, as your husband's.

[Merinda]

You are not saying what you DH does and what type of career he is in. Some jobs simply expect long hours (sadly), and you come across as not being "committed" if you do not work them.

[Eggsaregoodforyou]

But OP you have said yourself that thing have been this way for thirteen years? Of you were in a work situation this arrangement would constitute custom and practice, and neither side could re write the terms without the agreement of the other.

Surely in a marriage both parties get to say whether they want things to change?

[notinagreatplace]

I don't think it's unreasonable for you to want "your turn", OP. It sounds like you've done a lot of stuff (e.g. supporting ILs) that you didn't particularly want to do, whereas your DH has had everything his way for years.

I do think you both need to think about the whole raft of things that you guys do - e.g. the chickens, the BTL properties - and think about how you can reduce the time that both of you spend on them.

It may well be the case that your DH can't continue with his job because it requires long hours but he could go part-time or change career to support you for a change.

I wonder if you might find counselling helpful as it sounds like having an outsider to help you both to figure out how this might work for you as a couple could be beneficial.

[Chiana]

OP, it sounds like you’ve put in a huge amount of unpaid labour over the years looking after his family, and it’s understandable that you’d feel some resentment now, if you feel like your DH doesn’t appreciate the effort you’ve put in. There’s also obviously a lot of stuff going on regarding your DH’s working hours. Have you and your DH thought about going to a short course of counselling, so you can discuss how to move forward in terms of work hours, chores around the house, etc?

A lot of people have this idea that going to counselling is the first step on the way to divorce, but DH and I found it really helpful 5 years ago when I was a SAHM with a baby and a toddler, and our house was a building site. It was a stressful time in our marriage, we went to counselling once a week for 5 or 6 months, and eventually decided we didn’t need to be in counselling anymore, because we were communicating much better. Also, because I was getting ready to go back to work, which was taking a lot of the stress off (I found being a SAHM very stressful). Also, the wretched building works were finished, which was taking the rest of the stress off.

Also, have you thought about going away for a spa break or similar and leaving DH to get on with looking after the house, the animals and the DC for a week? It sounds like you’re desperate for some recognition that what you do around the house is work. Understandably so. If DH had to walk in your shoes for a week, it might be a big wake-up call, much more so than you just telling him how hard you work. And you’d get a nice holiday out of it. You could always make it a study break. Have a spa treatment and a swim every day, and spend the rest of the time revising, but in a different environment from the usual.

[kaykayblue]

I don't get this at all.

First of all, yes your husband shouldn't be working unpaid hours on a saturday. But some jobs, you sort of have to, at least on a temporary basis.

Look, I agree that he needs to accept that he has had YEARS to build up his career, and now it is time that he turns it down a notch. He might be sacrificing huge leaps in promotion, but if it's to enable you both to have satisfying careers, then that's reasonable.

What I don't understand is how the hell you think you are going to be able to work full time, and still do pretty much everything you are doing now.

Also...well....I don't mean to be rude, but a lot of the things that are taking up your time (the buy to rents, the animals, etc)...you say are YOUR interests, babies, whatever.

Why should your partner have to cut down on his hours just so you can continue to have unnecessary things just because you like them?

If you sold the properties and got rid of the animals, would you have time to work full time and for him to carry on as before?

Because if that's the case, then your husband could justifiably demand that you do it. You voluntarily took on those committments. If you can't have a career whilst keeping up with the house AND your additional "hobbies" then the hobbies have to go.

Compromise isn't a one way street.

Also, the way you talk about your home is sort of creepy. Do you really think that your house is just so much more special to you than to others?

That's all sorts of precious.