Family adjusting to SAHM returning to work

[Joysmum]

Being a SAHM suited me and our family. I missed out on my mum when I was growing up due to her long hours. My extended family have benefitted too as my MIL was seriously debilitated by a serious heart attack at a young age and then died 7 months later, followed by my FIL being diagnosed with dementia which ended his life 2 months ago. The trouble came some years ago when I decided I wanted a career of my own.

DH has been able to build a good career for himself because he could concentrate on doing that with no responsibilities or regular hours to keep at home. Him fulfilling his career aspirations gave good rewards.

He used to say he was doing all the long, unpredictable, unpaid hours for us...that was until last year when I asked him if he honestly believed if he didn't have us he'd be less committed to his job and work less? Mumsnet made me see the truth, before that I felt I ought to be grateful, that feeling resentful of being trapped in a life I didn't want was ungrateful. Of course then dawned on him I was right and those declarations stopped. He loves his job, it pays well, and makes him feel like he's achieved in life. He'd always said if I wanted him to change jobs he would, he knows I would never call his bluff.

Now, I want to work, I want a career of my own. I'm pushing hard and fast to accelerate the time it takes to get qualified, I'm actually working longer hours than him. Despite his assurances that he'd step up with the household responsibilities, he hasn't. It's not because of anything sinister, he just genuinely believed the amount of household responsibility he'd taken on since I started studying was actually more than half.

Things came to a head as I asked him to consider the hours he spent last week doing chores, and what hadn't been done in that time and how long those things would have taken (that's even ignoring the occasional chores like windows and cupboards) it's suddenly dawned on him that what he's been doing is not enough.

This week has been dreadful, he's been so down as his job has required long hours and he realises what a struggle it will be to continue being as committed at work as he has been and take up even just half the household responsibilities (although by rights he ought to be doing more given I'm doing more hours than him). This will also cut out any quality family time together like we were used to at weekends because that's when he'll need to do much of his share of chores.

We're now at that stage where it's got to dawn on him that he can't cope, that the only way to fit it all in is to either lose our quality family time, or for him to cut back on his unpaid additional hours. This of course means he's got to really face up to the fact that his excessive commitment to work really is for him, that we've just benefitted from what he wanted to do anyway. What affect this would cutting back have on his current job and continued career development?

I'm now wondering if the answer is for me to continue to put him first and just work part time from home when I'm qualified so I can do the majority of the chores, he remains flexible in his availability at work and we still get quality family time to play hard. A cleaner isn't an option. There's no reason financially for me to work, it's something I want to do. I never thought I'd be a SAHM, I always thought I'd have a good career.

He's really struggling emotionally this week (with the realisation of just how much his commitment to his career has impacted on my life and will continue to need) and I'm torn between feeling vindicated in my feelings (resentment, but then feeling selfish because of being judged 'lucky' by others who don't understand how much of myself I've given up, or the enrichment it's added to DH's life) and in worrying about the impact on our lives of me expecting him to take on at least half the responsibilities at home.

I'll also admit, I have a massive chip on my shoulder from social attitudes that I'm living off my husband, am not setting a good example to my DD and how 'lucky' I am being a SAHM. Ive resented it, don't feel fulfilled, feel trapped and have done for years. I'm a people pleaser though. I guess being stung by the attitudes of others and that resentment has made me want to aim for a well respected career so I can prove to myself, and others, that I'm very capable and can be a success and who has the self respect to not live off her husband! A well respected career that i enjoy and could do from home part time would fit in with my need to achieve, with his career aspirations and still allow for quality family time.

Mind you, I'll admit there's the petulant child side of me that wants him to find this hard, wants him and the world to truly appreciate how much of myself I've given up over the years, to value my input over the years. Him having to do the same now and compromise (although not give up) on his wants, will show the wider world the effects of him having to adjust and see how me compromising on my wants over the years has allowed our family to have a better quality of life.

It's just a rant really

I'm no longer caring for familia and DD is at senior school now which is why I'm not waiting any longer. She has freedoms to be at home alone and has lots of jobs of her own to do, just as I did as a child. She can do anything round the house.

My people pleasing is coming to an end, that's why I'm pushing on with my wishes to have my own career despite how difficult it's proving.

The house an extended 30's semi and has 4 beds, 2 bathrooms and a dressing room so it's not a mansion.

I don't do house proud, things never have been perfect as I never had the time and saw it as a waste of time. Nobody goes to their grave wishing the house had been cleaner! I do do having a moan when people expect me to be a maid as they aren't tidy.

We will not be having anyone in the house to clean as we've been victims of a few crimes in the past that leave us feeing very anxious and protective of our personal space. Getting a cleaner is one thing that will never happen so I can assure everyone there's no 'playing the martyr' despite the love of a few to think the worst of people

We have someone to do the lawn weekly. That's fine, he's not in the house so we do have help and aren't 'playing the martyr'.

Cooking and clearing up after it daily is probably 5 hours a week on it's own, another 2 hours a week on laundry/ironing/changing bedding, shopping is an hour, Then there's cleaning out the chickens and feeding/medicating the animals which is probably 45 mins a week.

That's more than 8 hours on the bare minimums before we even get onto actually cleaning the house (2.5 hours maybe), DD's clubs or doing the things she needs (taking her clothes shopping or for haircuts/dentist/doctors etc) or decorating (my role in the past) or DIY (DH's)

Then I also manage our BTL houses, 2 are having major building works atm, and it's gas safety cert time again. Our own house is having another phase of building work. I deal with all the trades and project manage. Hardest bit of that is getting builders to even turn up to quote! That's quite all stressful and time consuming, as is managing the expectations of tenants to suddenly find good builders with no waiting lists.

Of course that' all is not even considering intermittent jobs and things like dump runs, the things not normally thought of but still need doing.

All of those things are a part time job in themselves so if they get shared out between DH and I, he needs to have time to take them on.

DH will also work either a Saturday or Sunday which leaves one day off. He likes a lie in then (quite rightly) and this doesn't leave much time for much else. His hours out of the house are far too long and that's been able to be the case because has had no other responsibilities at home. He focuses on his job and his time at home was leisure time so he got to rest. That's what I've tried to make clear in the OP.

Now I'm trying to do more than full time, and then add in all the stuff I listed above I'm doing very long hours too. I don't want to live to work like he does! Plus his irregular hours mean I'm the one who'd have to be flexible in my work. That's why working for myself from home is the goal, rather than being employed. Saves time on commuting too.

I've tried to be clear in the OP, there's not enough time with his working hours to allow me to sustaining working full time whilst managing everything else. Being a SAHM facilitated it before.

I'd love for him to cut back and my rant is because times are tough until he realises for himself it's not sustainable and declares his hand. Either he's going to support me in establishing my own career and is prepared to cut back and take on some of the other duties, or he isn't so. If that's the case I can only sustainably do part time and not throw everything into build my career as he's had the freedom to. That's not fair

OP, forgive me but you are being pathetic about a cleaner.

You go to an agency and get someone who's been vetted. We have a lot of highly valuable antiques and paintings, all kinds of expensive techie equipment, and we've never had any problems. Futhermore I have an immaculately clean house, none of which is my work.

Shopping can be done online from a saved list, in which case it takes about 30mins. One of us generally has to go out and pick up oddments but that doesn't take very long.

Are chickens really necessary?

As you're working full time now you cannot do any more decoration, but at the same time, you have the money to pay someone else to do it.

Your BTLs can be managed by a property manager, and if you have ongoing building work you need to have a couple of totally reliable firms you always use, rather than asking for quotes from people who don't show up.

So, there's a lot of time that can be saved here by intelligent choices OP.

If you want to work full time you have to be prepared to delegate other aspects of your life.

Get a property manager for the buy to lets. There, that's one big chunk of time sorted. Use a cleaning agency with a good reputation, one which checks all its staff for criminal records. Another big chunk of time sorted.

My DH works long hours and I work a 4 day week. We wouldn't survive without outside help.

Twinklestein, with respect it's not about property. We don't have lots of expensive stuff. More about having a sanctuary. Of course you don't know us or the situation and I'm not prepared to share publicly. Suffice to say there are anxiety issues. We won't be getting in a cleaner.

Likewise decorators is back to having people in the house again.

Yep, chickens and all our other animals are necessary. They enrich our lives. Getting rid would further tip the work life balance the wrong way. The animals are my interest. DH shares the interest but they are mine. He's even put up chicken and badger can he can feel at home when he's away.

Shopping online will save 30 mins, thank you .

Paying somebody else to manage the properties doesn't make sense financially. If I'm paying a management company then I'm having to work more hours to pay them. ATM it's tough because I'm investing, other times they run themselves. The other thing is that you've failed to appreciate that although I class myself as a SAHM, the BRL's are my babies. They are the one quantifiable thing I've achieved. It's a contribution I'm make to the household that I can feel is because of my efforts.

I think you are being over dramatic. Millions of couples both work and manage to run a house likewise so do single people. It's not that hard. How much mess can two adults and a senior aged child make?

It only feels harder I would imagine as you have had the luxury of not working before so had lots of free time. Its bound to be different.

You're not willing to make any changes to make life easier. So I don't think anyone here can help you.

Btw, agents wouldn't help much with my current building work. They don't help with investment. They don't draw up plans or discuss best practice or reassure tenants. They don't diligently chase things up as you do when it's yours. I do it better.

My properties were managed. I had issues with the tenants they got in and I took the decision is be better off managing them myself. We now have no issues and it's just coming up to 3 years that the newest tenants have been in one of the properties.

The housework aside here. Why is he working for no pay instead of spending his time with his family.
I would go ballistic if my dh did this for somebody else, even once let alone as part of his career. It's disgusting and his employers are taking the piss.
He is taking the piss by expecting his family to do without.
Maybe justifies it by telling himself he is doing the right thing for his family, but I'm sure you and the dc would like him at home more, being part of the family.

I think you are getting a bit of a hard time on here Joysmum. The problem isn't the cleaning and housework. The problem is your DH and the realization of what running a household actually entails. He's basically been allowed free rein over the last few years, you are (rightly IMO) saying Oy, now its my turn and he is actually finally beginning to understand how you have enabled his career over the past x years.

These things he is getting stressed & emotional about are things that thousands of women deal with on a daily basis i.e. working full time and dealing with a household.

What he isn't wanting to do is compromise his work position for pulling his weight at home isn't it? e.g. him working Saturday or Sunday. And people wonder why men make up such a high percentage of the top earners.

Joysmum, you aren't in the wrong here. It is your time. You have sacrificed a lot for the family (they are his family too after all), it is now his turn. And you know what? You aren't asking a lot. 6 hrs a week perhaps?

I'm going to be harsh here. You don't want a solution to this problem. You want your husband to "suffer" and experience part of what you have experienced over these years. You say that he works for himself, not for you and your children - as if that was a crime.

And even if you have a S&M dungeon at home, there are ways to protect your privacy and yet get a cleaner. This, believe me, is not a figure of speech.

I'm really not sure about what you want from this thread. Ways to persuade your husband to cut back on what he enjoys?

You only have the same chores as the rest of us, an average house and one child! Of course it's doable. How do you think the rest of us manage?

I struggle to keep on top of everything but as long as everyone is clean, fed and watered then the rest can wait. It's about your attitude towards it all as much as anything.

You go on and on about chores in your op as if you have some anxiety.

But that isn't solely Joysmum's responsibility Flossiex2. It is her DH's too. And he isn't stepping up.

Does everybody seriously think I'm being unreasonable to expect my DH to work less hours given he doesn't need to for financial reasons? That long and erratic hours 6 days a week with the tiredness and lack of time at home that brings is acceptable? That he should have no responsibilities other than bringing in a pay cheque and anything that's his share should be done by others?

Seriously, I don't understand?

Also the way you refer to your husband and his share if the chores and the number of hours sounds over the top. No wonder you are overwhelmed. Give yourselves a break.

The problem is that you want it all. Everything you do already and a career. It's not going to happen unless you give up some control.

OP you sound like you are trying hard to justify not actually having a career. Are you secretly scared of not succeeding or perhaps as your DD is older now do you feel you 'should' have a career but really deep down inside are happy running your home and BTL's?

I was going to comment on the obvious like your refusal to have a cleaner but as you won't qualify what the issue is then I won't but you can certainly send the ironing out, buy in prepared food or eat out lots, use a window cleaner etc. Your DH can surely manage to unload the dishwasher and chuck clothes in the washing machine as easily as you can - these are hardly arduous tasks!

I run our BTL's as well as working (am doing this from work) and we had major works done on both our home and two of the BTL's over the past three years. As a previous poster said you have to have builders or tradesmen you trust and have a long term relationship with them. Whenever something goes wrong they will be there for me v quickly but I do pay them promptly and make sure they get good Christmas presents!

If you want your life to change, you have to be prepared to make some changes.

Either reduce the amount of things that need to be done or bring in other people to help.

I think it would be fair to expect your husband to no longer work weekends, that should give enough time for chores AND quality time. But you will still probably need to make further changes if you want to work full time.

I understand you are emotionally tied up in your BTL but won't this emotional need be fulfilled by going back to work FT? So you could get a property manager.

Personally I think it's great for you to go back to work but I think you're making it more complicated than it needs to be.

You only have the same chores as the rest of us, an average house and one child! Of course it's doable. How do you think the rest of us manage?

Perhaps you'd like to reread my posts. I also property manage and invest in buy to let projects and am currently just managing the final phase of renovating our house. That's been interspersed with being a carer for both my in-laws too.

Seriously everyone, we are not compromising our sanctuary by getting cleaners in the house. If it were that easy I'd do it.

Difficult to know what you are asking then op! You've had a lot of good advice. Were you just wanting to rant?

You have filled a full time role with caring for your home, animals, family and a side-business as a landlord.
If you want a career then there just isn't time for all that too.

Yes, your dh needs to work less, but unless he's going properly part-time or you are then you still have three peoples worth of work (two careers and your previous role) between two people.

My advice would be to forge ahead with your career but you and your dh need to sit down and simplify the rest if your lives. Most households with two working parents do not also self-manage let property or care for many animals. It's just not possible.

So basically you want to maintain everything exactly as it was when you were a SAHM but also work and study more than full-time? That's a circle that can't be squared. If you have anxiety issues around people in your home and a need to keep animals then that's what is limiting your choices here, not your DH's working hours.

That said, it would hardly be a huge sacrifice for your DH to e.g. drop his 1 working day per weekend. He must surely be well established in his career now so surely a year or two of cutting back won't destroy his earning potential. It would only be temporary I presume until you qualify?

Really though I think you both have unrealistic expectations. You seem to have built up a lot of resentment over years of being a SAHM. Unless you communicated this to your DH at the time, it's hardly fair to hit him with years of pent-up frustration now. This should just be about the two of you finding practical ways to manage a change in your household arrangements, not point-scoring.

Compromising our sanctuary is a very strange phrase. What do you think everyone else is doing when they get a cleaner in?

I won't list what I do as it's not a competition but you focus on the chores that everyone in the land has to do as if they are preventing you from having a career.

He wanted to work and you didn't. He was happy for you not too and prepared to take on full financial responsibility and sounds like he still is the sole earner.

Now you have decided you have had enough of being home, it doesn't mean he has to stop working or cut his hours back because you say so. He has to want to work less, not be told he has too. Just like you have choices so does he. You wanted to stay home, he didn't force you into it yet now you seem to think he's held you back which makes no sense. If he had demanded you return to work after a year as you are now telling him what to do, would you have been happy?

Between you, it would take less than an hour a day to do household jobs. If you had returned to work after maternity, you'd have been doing it for years and would have known no different. Millions do a day at work and still keep a home, it's not that hard.

I think it would be fair to expect your husband to no longer work weekends, that should give enough time for chores AND quality time

Thank you for that. All this would be achievable if he didn't work such ridiculous hours. I honestly don't think I'm being unreasonable in hoping he'll trim the time he works. Especially as I'd still be flexible in my hours to facilitate his.

I can't wait to be qualified. That's why I'm squeezing what should take 3 years into about 18 months! To do that I'm asking no more of him than to just work reasonable hours.