How to get over the fact that I will never have children

[Whereismyb12]

Hi all. Hope to get some benefits from your collective wisdom.

I've been with my DP for nearly 5 years. He is my soul mate. He is the nicest, kindest human being I've known. He is my friend. I really like and respect him. He is the love of my life.

When we met we were both clear that we didn't want to do the 'traditional' stuff: get married, have children, get a dog, buy a house, settle down. We found it boring. We wanted to be together and have fun - live in different countries, follow our hobbies, feel young.

5 years down the line we are married (ok, it came as a surprise to both of us and we did it in a non-traditional way, but still) and in the process of buying a flat! We did it because we wanted it and that's ok. But there is another point on the 'never to do' list which we can't agree on: children.

A desire to have a child literally kicked me in the face (or rather in the uterus) overnight, around 2 years ago. I had always been disgusted/annoyed by kids and suddenly I wanted one! I couldn't get my head around it but the feeling was very strong. I spoke about it to DP: he was quite surprised but honestly responded that he didn't share my feelings and didn't know if he would feel differently one day. We had a similar conversation a few times afterwards and the outcome was always the same: he does not have a paternal instinct, doesn't mind the children of other people (in fact he's very good and caring with his nieces/nephews) but doesn't want his own child. I talked, I reasoned, I tried to persuade him. He seems honest that there is no other reason although I think in his eyes a child may be another step towards this terrifying idea of 'settling down'. Anyway his answer is no. Every conversation ended in me crying so I stopped talking about it but didn't stop longing for it.

Recently I observed some serious pregnancy symptoms. I was convinced that I was either pregnant or seriously ill as the symptoms were so out of the ordinary. I was ecstatic thinking that this could be my dream come true! When I talked to DP about my suspicions he reassured me that we would manage the situation if we were to have a child. He was very calm and supportive. Well, after a few weeks it turned out I wasn't pregnant. Stupid me, getting my hopes up so high.

It was like my own personal disaster. Like if something inside me broke and released the unstoppable desire for a baby that I tried to muffle for the last 2 years. It is constantly screaming inside my head. I can's look at children on the internet or in the street without thinking that I will never experience this. When I'm swimming I can't help thinking it's such a shame I will never teach my child to swim. When I'm running I'm imagining how I run with my daughter. When I see a bee I want to show it to my son and explain the world to him. I just think I have so much to share, WE have so much to share, me and DP, and that parenting would be a fantastic adventure for both of us. He would be an amazing parent as he's very patient and understanding, and young at heart. But we doesn't want to be a parent and I can't make him want it.

I fully respect his right to say no. I feel like this situation is my fault as I am the one who changed rules of the game and he doesn't have to accept them. But I feel so unhappy. I try to behave like before but often I will burst in tears out of nowhere or get snappy with him because sometimes something deep inside me feels that it's his fault I'm unhappy. But then I remind myself that he's not doing it deliberately. Which doesn't really change my situation.

Long introduction but my question is shorter: how can I get rid of my desire to have a baby? I need to do it to find peace. Will it fade with time? Is there anything I can do to persuade myself that this stupid longing for children will not happen so there is no point of focusing on it? Please don't tell me to LTB as this is not an option.

OP - rather than talking to him about why it matters to you, tell him that you want children, it's not a minor thing, and ask him to tell you if children really are a 'no not ever' thing for him or not. If he really is saying no to children ever, then he needs to be honest with you about that. (and possibly revisit his claim that he doesn't want the snip because he might change his mind). If it's a 'maybe' point out you don't have a lot of faffing about time, but he does. Spell that out, he can't take away your chance to have DCs then go off to have them with someone else, that's not fair on you.

Perhaps put time frames to him, you want more than one, a couple of years in between? So when do you want your first? 2 years?

Can I just add that there is no magic cut off date pre 40 or even 45 for having children?
I know there are some posters here who found they were sub or infertile in their mid 30s but this is not the norm.
I have a good friend who had her 1st at 41 and conceived instantly ( her 2nd marriage), by mum had my brother when she was almost 37, and there are plenty of women having babies in their late 30s and early 40s.
There was some research not too long ago- maybe last year- which poo-pooed the idea that women's fertility falls off a cliff in their mid 30s. For most women it doesn't. Unless you have reason to think you may have gynae problems then you'd be right to assume you could conceive very easily right up to 40- 41.

The problem is though pinkfrocks, that the older she is when she starts trying the narrower the window is to get help if she needs it and also to have more than one child.

A friend of mine hung on with Mr "I don't want children" for 10 years and finally left when she was 38. She was very lucky to meet her now husband very quickly and to conceive her son right away. But still she was 39 when her son arrived and after that she didn't feel able to have any more as she felt she was too old (her husband is 6 years older than her and he felt that even more strongly). She would have loved to have more children but her age stood against her even though her fertility was fine.

So he is horrible and selfish and should just give in? What a sexist attitude. Would a women give in or be advised too, no would be the answer.

He has a right to his choice and view, it doesn't get over ridden just because he is male and the female should get her way.

The OP has changed her mind, of course she can but it doesn't mean she should force him into a huge lifestyle choice that he doesn't want. Not wanting the snip doesn't mean he plans to do it with somebody else.

Daisy - no one has said he should just give in.

pinkfrocks i read the same research but, speaking from experience, the later you leave the whole child thing the more bloody knackering it is ... and it is certain that the chances of somethign going wrong get higher and higher.

I think we need to get away from the idea that OP's DH is stringing her along, neglecting her feelings, refusing to allow her a child while at the same time keeping his own options open (by not having a vasectomy), and about to bugger off with a 20 year old.

The poor bloke has no idea how she feels. He reacted in a supportive and reasonably positive manner when she thought she was pregnant. The chances are, he'd be absolutely horrified to realise how cut up she is about this, and desperate to find a way through the situation.

It's perfectly possible that the prospect of losing OP over this would force him to make up his mind once and for all about having children. Far from thinking 'Oh, I'll just go off and have a child with a 20 year old' (although this is a possibility, as I and others have mentioned), it's more likely he would think that if he and OP split up, he would probably end up with a woman in her later 30s, and that realistically (when you add on maybe 6 months of being single and then at least a year between meeting a new partner and TTC) this could make it too late for him to have children too.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: TALK TO HIM!!!!

Pinkfrocks - as said earlier, the time to sort it out if you do have problems disappears the older you get, and it limits how many you can have and how big a gap you can leave.

Daisy - He's not selfish if he never wants DCs, but if he's leaving it open ended of "maybe at some point" or "never say never" in order to keep the OP in the marriage, then he is being selfish. I always remember this problem page in the Guardian and remember thinking how selfish this man was. To not be honest that he never wanted children in order to stop the writer from leaving her DH.

In this case, the OP's DH hasn't been clear, he wants to avoid having a vasectomy because he might want children in the future, what's that if not dangling a "I might change my mind" to the OP - she's crying but he's not saying "I'll never change my mind, I don't want children" - possibly from fear she'll walk away.

OP, ask him straight out where he stands. If it's a 'never' then you can deal with it. But I would expect him to put his money where his mouth is and have that vasectomy. If it's a 'maybe' then he needs to tell you what he wants in place first, if it's to own a property, be married, complete some study he's currently doing, or completes a year in a new job etc, then ok. But just some vage "some point in the future" isn't good enough. You are in a settled position, you are approaching 30, if life isn't likely to change over the next few years, then there's no reason to wait to have children, just make the decision if you're having them or not.

I wrote a long post while I was on public transport, but then lost it due to poor wifi....in the meantime the thread has moved on a bit.

I think that what I would like to add to the mix is that the ability to 'not' have children by choice is largely a phenomenon of the last few decades, which I think makes the choice to reproduce seem larger, more life-defining and more profound than it really is. While easy access to contraception has improved countless lives, the decision to reproduce, in situations like yours, has become almost too huge. Your DH is also going to be bombarded by headlines about how stressful it is, how costly childcare is, how babies cost ...You never see a headline 'happy parents adore new baby' or 'cheeky toddler brings joy to family'! At the same time, modern long-term contraception like the Pill means that couples have to make an active choice, wait for the 'right time' etc. Whereas in truth, any sexually active heterosexual couple can become parents at any time - as your DH might find out one day when a condom splits, which surely it must do sooner or later!

I was reluctant to have children (bereavements in my late 20s, sister with extreme PND) and we didn't try to conceive until I had come to the point of really wanting a baby. But a little before that, when I was gradually coming round to the idea, I decided to start using the 'Persona' device to monitor my cycles, as this identifies fertile and infertile days. We were very lucky and I fell pregnant with my lovely DS at the age of 33, on the first cycle where we did not use contraception on my fertile days. However, unfortunately we haven't had so much luck trying for a second from the age of 37 onwards.

I think that using Persona or similar could be a very useful thing for you to do as it would a) give you information about your fertility b) take the pressure off the situation as there is no more huge one-off decision - you and DH can simply decide each month whether or not to use contraception on your fertile days c) you will learn things from how your DH reacts to this process. Either way, you will be wiser.
Best wishes.

I don't think he has to committ to a vasectomy. To prove he doesn't want children. I don't think the OP needed to get sterilised when she was sure she didn't want children, either.
He is sure he doesn't want children, but like OP he is entitled to change his mind.
However, you have to take him on face value. If you need to try and have children. Then, your only option at this time is to leave your current relationship. To Pursue this need elsewhere.
If you stay, then you may end up resenting yourself. The buck stops with you. He isn't stopping you. It's your choice. It's your feelings that will keep you with him. It's your desire that will make leave. It's all on you! Don't project that on to him.

I agree with those who say there is no such thing as compromise re a baby. You can't have half of one. But if your partner loves you then he owes it to you to be open and honest about his feelings.

Anyone in their late thirties who says 'oh I might want children in the future' is a bit of a bullshitter/not thinking things through.

Obviously if they're not in a relationship that's one thing. But if they are, they must be aware that the now or never time is coming up. Sure, as a man, he should still be able to have children later, but the quality of his sperm will still decline. How old a dad does he want to be? When he's 60 is he expecting to have a ten-yr-old (which will require a lot of running around after still) or a 20-yr-old?

And I can understand men not feeling the desire in the same way as women, either from a hormones point of view (do men get that sudden 'I must have a child' feeling?) or from a window-of-opportunity-closing pressure. But if they have partners they care about, surely they know that said partners do not have the luxury of 20 years or more to conceive.

You are young, OP. You still have time. But what if he says 'maybe next year, maybe next year' for another 7 years? It might be too late for you by then, or if he says no and it's a dealbreaker, too late for you to find another partner who does want them.

He either a) doesn't want kids but doesn't want to say so, b) is truly oblivious to the fact that time (and the chance to have kids) is passing by or c) knows that when he does want kids he'll probably be able to find 'someone' to have them with.

Instead of putting off thinking about it, he should genuinely consider it, and give you a solid answer. That would be the decent thing to do.

It's interesting that you maintain that feelings towards your partner won't change ("unconditional love"), yet clearly your feelings about having a baby clearly have.

I just want to take the chance to convince him it would be a good idea. I will fully respect his decision even if it's negative (what else can I do about it?) but I have to make sure he's fully aware where it is coming from. I know his father wasn't brilliant when he was a child. I know of his aversion to 'settle down'. I asked him if these could be the reasons why he doesn't want to have children but he says no, it's just how he feels. I want to make sure and an advisor could help me do it. I need to get to the root of the problem before I can tackle it. If it is something I can help (convince him we don't have to do it like our parents and it's not the end of the world), then I want to try. If it is as he says, just a strong feeling of 'no', then... I don't know.

I am sure of one thing: I don't want to feel like that for the next 15 years or more.

Frontier maybe it's because I have loved my partner for 5 years and my maternal instinct switched on 2 years ago and it's still 'theoretical'? I hoped it would go away at the beginning but almost everyone tells me now it's probably not going to be the case

Just re. that recent research poo-pooing the idea that women's fertility falls off a cliff after 35 - I think I know what you are referring to and it really annoys me that it hasn't got more attention. I heard the statistics (nerd alert) discussed on a Radio 4 programme about 6 months ago. Turns out all those oft-quoted stats about what happens to fertility rates post 35 are based on a small survey (I think about 200 women) taken in France in - wait for it - the late 1700s. Yes, you heard it right. In other words - utter bollocks, frankly. None of my friends even started having children until mid/late 30s and many are still producing them like they are going out of fashion in their 40s.

Programme called More or Less - Tim Hartford presents it. You can probably find link to it if anyone wants to listen. Really blows all that stuff out of the water.

I know his father wasn't brilliant when he was a child.

Oddly enough this came up in conversation with two friends at the weekend. All three of us had partners who were ambivalent, at best, about being fathers and all three men had very difficult or non-existent relationships with their own fathers.

What is this "settling down" aversion nonsense?

Does he want to roam the world forever like a hobo or something?

Does he want to be forever single?

Does he never want to own a home?

I don't really understand the "settling down" thing.

Is it an aversion to convention? Or biology?

Has he made it clear to you what it is? Curious as to what he means exactly.

Is he generally a free spirit unconventional sort?

I wonder if he deliberately seeked out a younger woman for a relationship, as she would be less likely to make "demands" of children on him? (Unlike her predecessor, who he finished a relationship with as she wanted children). I think there's a reason for that 10 year age gap.

I don't think it's an aversion to biology, winky. I don't think there is anything natural about settling down or monogamy.
It a social construct, probably designed by religion.

These conventions are becoming less popular. Look at divorce rates. They are becoming slightly outdated. Remember that the woman would do all the housework/childcare, conventionally. Thank god things change.

How about some couple counselling to go over the issue in a safe, controlled environment? Sounds like it could be a make or break issue for you - and maybe he needs to really hear that and understand it. Exploring the reasons for his reluctance (and maybe your reluctance for so long) might be helpful. At least you should figure out whether he might change his mind or whether it is really intractable. Good luck. Really tough one.

I think it has to do with his artistic career that he tries to pursue on the side of his 9-5 job. Putting a lot of time and effort into it while waiting for his time to come. Don't misunderstand me, I do support him in this but our views differ. I am the more rational type who sees it as a hobby. He hopes it will become his full time occupation one day, free him from his dull job and enable him to travel and earn money by doing what he loves and not what he has to do. Which may or may not happen!

Biology as in reproduction which for many is a primal urge.

I think it's really dangerous to get into the whole 'it's not the right time for children yet because I'm still xxxx' It's NEVER the right time in a way one is ALWAYS doing something.

But - one way of looking at it or presenting it to him might be that becoming a parent would give him masses of new material/inspiration for his artistic career…… Worth a try????

It is hard. I got pregnant with my first DC when I was 24 and newly married. If I hadn't, I don't know when DH would have felt "ready".

After we had DS, I wanted more almost immediately but DH did not. It was awful as I did not want DS to be an only child.

DH decided he wanted more when DS was five. I got pregnant immediately and now have a seven year old DS and a 14 month old DD. Also now he has become much more committed to his religious beliefs (he is Catholic) and now doesn't want to use any contraception. I've agreed for the time being as I would like more children anyway, but have told him explicitly that I am not a Duggar and there will come a time when I am done.

He was 27 when we conceived our first accidentally. After that he was really very reluctant until his early 30s.

I really do think our society these days infantilizes people, especially men. (Although where I am it is a bit of a class thing; it's not uncommon here for working class men in their early 20s to be married with DC...which I think may have something to do with their not going to college. They planned to farm or mine anyway so skipped over the student part.) DH studied literature and planned to be a professor, which didn't work out due to our son's birth. But no one in the circle of people he'd studied with even contemplated children until their 30s.

My best friend's sister is getting married this autumn in her late 20s and she has told me "we might have DC, but we'll probably wait til early 40s." She was honestly shocked when I mentioned that it can be difficult to get pregnant in your forties without intervention. She said "but I'm still a kid!" When, no, she is 27. But that is the prevailing attitude I've seen these days (front the ripe old age of 32 :o), that people extend the student lifestyle of not being a "proper grownup" until their early 30s.

If your DP (are you married) is 38 but feels as though he's a decade younger, he may very well be in that "not a proper grownup" stage.

What is it that he doesn't like about settling down? I feel like there is this image nowadays of the "proper" way to do parenthood...house in the 'burbs, minivan, matching PJs on a Christmas card. It really doesn't have to be that way. You can raise children in a flat in the city or in the a commune in Zanzibar. You can travel with them or hire a nanny and travel without them. You can get babysitters and go on nights out all you want.

Sorry, this was a rambling post. But I find the parenting choices of my generation really interesting!