How to get over the fact that I will never have children

[Whereismyb12]

Hi all. Hope to get some benefits from your collective wisdom.

I've been with my DP for nearly 5 years. He is my soul mate. He is the nicest, kindest human being I've known. He is my friend. I really like and respect him. He is the love of my life.

When we met we were both clear that we didn't want to do the 'traditional' stuff: get married, have children, get a dog, buy a house, settle down. We found it boring. We wanted to be together and have fun - live in different countries, follow our hobbies, feel young.

5 years down the line we are married (ok, it came as a surprise to both of us and we did it in a non-traditional way, but still) and in the process of buying a flat! We did it because we wanted it and that's ok. But there is another point on the 'never to do' list which we can't agree on: children.

A desire to have a child literally kicked me in the face (or rather in the uterus) overnight, around 2 years ago. I had always been disgusted/annoyed by kids and suddenly I wanted one! I couldn't get my head around it but the feeling was very strong. I spoke about it to DP: he was quite surprised but honestly responded that he didn't share my feelings and didn't know if he would feel differently one day. We had a similar conversation a few times afterwards and the outcome was always the same: he does not have a paternal instinct, doesn't mind the children of other people (in fact he's very good and caring with his nieces/nephews) but doesn't want his own child. I talked, I reasoned, I tried to persuade him. He seems honest that there is no other reason although I think in his eyes a child may be another step towards this terrifying idea of 'settling down'. Anyway his answer is no. Every conversation ended in me crying so I stopped talking about it but didn't stop longing for it.

Recently I observed some serious pregnancy symptoms. I was convinced that I was either pregnant or seriously ill as the symptoms were so out of the ordinary. I was ecstatic thinking that this could be my dream come true! When I talked to DP about my suspicions he reassured me that we would manage the situation if we were to have a child. He was very calm and supportive. Well, after a few weeks it turned out I wasn't pregnant. Stupid me, getting my hopes up so high.

It was like my own personal disaster. Like if something inside me broke and released the unstoppable desire for a baby that I tried to muffle for the last 2 years. It is constantly screaming inside my head. I can's look at children on the internet or in the street without thinking that I will never experience this. When I'm swimming I can't help thinking it's such a shame I will never teach my child to swim. When I'm running I'm imagining how I run with my daughter. When I see a bee I want to show it to my son and explain the world to him. I just think I have so much to share, WE have so much to share, me and DP, and that parenting would be a fantastic adventure for both of us. He would be an amazing parent as he's very patient and understanding, and young at heart. But we doesn't want to be a parent and I can't make him want it.

I fully respect his right to say no. I feel like this situation is my fault as I am the one who changed rules of the game and he doesn't have to accept them. But I feel so unhappy. I try to behave like before but often I will burst in tears out of nowhere or get snappy with him because sometimes something deep inside me feels that it's his fault I'm unhappy. But then I remind myself that he's not doing it deliberately. Which doesn't really change my situation.

Long introduction but my question is shorter: how can I get rid of my desire to have a baby? I need to do it to find peace. Will it fade with time? Is there anything I can do to persuade myself that this stupid longing for children will not happen so there is no point of focusing on it? Please don't tell me to LTB as this is not an option.

I dont think that she should hold out for a few more years - not sure if anyone has suggested that?

I think that there are chinks of hope....and that they should explore the reasons for their differences together in a safe rational objective environment thru counselling NOW -- then let the dust settle for a few months - and if he still cannot commit - she should move on knowing that she has done all she can to understand. I would NOT recommend holding on hoping and wishing....

It depends on the value one places on marriage and if you believe, as an earlier poster said, that all relationships reach their natural end.
Personally, I believe marriage is for life, but I don't know what the OP thinks about marriage. MillyMolly faced this same dilemma and chose to stay in the marriage childless. Not easy, but possible.
I don't think we should be advising the OP to walk away from her marriage at this stage. Husband has not said an absolute no never to children. He is willing to go to counselling. The communication channels about it are still open. OP needs to use every possible avenue to try to see if a resolution can be reached. It would be wrong to walk away at this point over just the baby issue, as there is still a chance of them moving forward together on this.
If after counselling, the position is the same, then OP will have the difficult choice to make. She may decide she values her husband above a child, or a child above her husband. But she doesn't need to walk now. The counselling may not change the ultimate position,mbut will hopefully give OP a chance to clearly explain how important a baby is to her,so husband can really hear it, help him explore his objections and assess their significance and whether he is just feeling it is a 'no' now or forever.

chase I wasn't meaning to suggest she waits- far from it. But there was a lot of discussion going on about fertility etc and cut-off dates.

I was adding my twopenneth worth not so she stays with him but rather that she doesn't stay with him! In other words she has plenty of time - a good 6 - 7 years- to be single again and meet someone else and TTC before completely panicking about the bio clock ticking.

But you can't bet with any certainty. I lived with a bloke for years who said he wanted kids in a while and was very good with kids and would have made a terrific father, I dotingly believed. It wasn't the reason we split up but he still doesn't have them. On the other hand the current Mr Inferior was adamantly anti-kids till his mid-30s. Till just around the time I met him, in fact.

Actually I think chase raises a good point.

OP -- one of the scenarios you might have to consider is that you don't have kids but instead make a happy life with just your husband. Is that scenario realistic if he does end up travelling the world for his art? Would you be going with him? Or would you be happy at home without him, without kids, enjoying your own interests and hobbies?

Basically, it just seems potentially doubly cruel -- if he doesn't want to have kids so that his art can take off.... but then that would mean he is not around that much either. That is really asking you to sacrifice a lot (unless somehow you can share that with him).

Lets face it, his art is extremely unlikely to take off whether they have children or not. Even if he is brilliantly talented, all the creative pursuits have very long odds on any individual becoming well known or making a living through them. So if that is key to his reasons for not having a child then he is putting the OP's desires to one side for the sake of preserving a very small chance. Which is fair enough if that is his decision.

His art may not take off, but it may still be very important to him; more important than being a parent or indeed holding on to a partner. At least the OP and he can think about this now ie before she has an 'accident' and he is pressured to stick by her and they spend the next 18 years bitterly resenting each other...
Slightly OT but there is something annoying about the idea that only profitable art-creation is valid, and that people who care passionately about their photography/music/poetry/acting but are either not all that good at it or (more likely) just unlucky in terms of fame and fortune, should give up, marry and breed instead. It is a different matter if someone has agreed or indeed been enthusiastic about the idea of having DC and then wants to pursue the art thing rather than sharing the domestic work and/or seeking a lucrative job. Once you've got children, you need to prioritize their needs.
But if you don't want to have children (yet) because you want to spend your time dancing or playing an instrument or drawing pictures because that's the thing that matters most in the world to you, a person telling you to cut back on it in order to do the thing that nearly everyone can do ie reproduce yourself, is actually not being fair.

OP I think you are in a difficult situation.

What I'm not sure about is - is your DH saying no to kids when he thinks his choices are 1)staying with you without children, or 2)staying with you with children, ie whatever the decision about children you will still be together?

Given your longing, it seems more likely that his choices are 3)staying with you and trying to have children, or 4)possibly breaking up. It doesn't come across that he realises having to choose between 3) and 4) is more likely than 1) and 2).

I think he needs to know that, either direct from you or through the counselling he's agreed to. It's not an ultimatum in any sense but somehow I get the impression he thinks the not wishing to have children will not possibly cause you to split. I think he needs to know it is a possibility as he may well decide he would rather have children than lose you.

I think that just as you must make a decision where you may have to lose him to have children, he also needs to make a decision if he's prepared to lose you through not having them. Has he really considered this?

I think it's really positive that he's agreed to go to counselling, actually. There have been questions raised on this thread about his reasons for choosing a younger partner - control and power being a possibility - and the willingness to let an outsider in on these discussions is I think really positive.

But I also feel at the image of you crying in his arms OP, he does understand how and why you are upset - he's just unable to deal with it. You need to be strong here - you need to be unlike your usual self and really place demands on him, really state the facts of fertility and be really clear not just how you feel, but how biology works! He is being immature and struggling to commit I think (the flat is 'his' rather than yours, yes?) but I think the agreement to counselling is a really positive thing. Get it all booked ASAP and keep a strong and persuasive thing going. Not begging him or explaining 'how you feel' ad infinitum, just stating the facts. You want to be a mother (a much better phrase than 'you want a baybee') - if he wants to be your life partner then he needs to step up to that. If he wants to delay it, he needs tangible reasons for doing so that you understand and are willing to abide by. If not, you do need to give him an ultimatum . And I think by the sounds of your relationship, all the straight talking you need to do, you will find easier to do with the counsellor there. So it will result in a massive shift in your relationship from you being the one who provides everything your DH fancies without any return, to being someone who places demands on him. But y know - it will make him respect and love you more, in the long run

SolidGoldBrass - yes, I couldn't agree with you more regarding everything you say there, I have expressed myself badly if it came across otherwise. I meant - if his reason for not having children was that he might commercially take off, not that his reason was to have time/energy to put into his creative work. Still, either is fair enough as I said. I totally agree that the OP is confronting this issue in time for it to be resolved in the best possible way, whatever that turns out to be.

SolidGoldBrass and OvenChips, you are both very wise women.

The idea that having children somehow diminishes the time to give to something creative is all in the mind.
Look at some of our most successful authors- PD James is still writing at 94 and she was a single parent with 2 girls. she used to get up at 5am or something daft like that to write before she went to work, full time. JK Rowling has had 2 more children since the first Harry P book. Dickens had 10 children and it didn't stop him.
All I'm saying is that it's easy to use domestic responsibility etc as an excuse in theory for not being able to get on with being creative.

I'd still like the OP to come back and tell us more about his house that he rents out and why it wasn't sold and the equity put towards their joint home ( assuming it is jointly owned) . If the DH has held onto his own house and they have only been able to buy somewhere else with a gift from the OP's family, then that seems to show a lack of wholehearted commitment from him- but I'm only summising.

The thing about fertility and reproduction is that you never, ever know what curve balls it will throw you. We started trying for a child when I was 27. I conceived very easily, had my sons at 28 and 30, but I had also had three miscarriages by my 30th birthday. Have had another three since 35 (am now 37), while trying for no. 3, and it took a little bit longer to get pg each time. Am now into month 7 or 8 (losing count a bit!) with nothing.

There is nothing at all reprehensible, innately immature, etc. about not wanting children, but the OP needs clarity on this, and her dh owes it to her. It is unfair for him to continually postpone the issue for her and himself. I think discussing this in front of a neutral third party (person-centred counsellor) would be a good way forward for both of them. (Sorry for third person, OP).

Hi OP - I am so sorry that you are in this situation.

I can see both sides of the coin - you couldn't have envisioned that your biological clock would start ticking like a bomb, but at the same time, you both went into the marriage on the same page that children weren't wanted.

So he is simply standing by his initial view, whilst you have changed your stance.

That's not meant to blame you in any way - I actually think it's way more common than people realise.

When we're growing up, we always hear about how the secret to a good relationship is learning how to compromise. But we rarely hear about what to do in situations like this, where there is no compromise possible. You either have a child, or you don't. There aren't many shades of grey to explore in this scenario.

I've only seen one person recommending that you go for a "happy accident" (someone was saying "omg so many people are suggesting that). Whilst I can genuinely see the appeal in that (especially for a desperate woman), please don't go down that route. Men aren't sperm banks, just as women aren't incubators. Even if a man decided to have nothing to do with the child, it's still a huge HUGE thing to force onto someone. And it's wrong. It's absolutely wrong and there is no circumstances which would ever make it right.

You really only have two choices here.

You either accept - completely - that you will never have children, and you try and fill your life with other joys. Travel, pets, whatever.

You decide that you cannot accept a life without children, and you leave your partner. You don't have to spend years looking for someone new. You could always use a sperm donor. Hell, don't they even screen donated sperm to get rid of any potential bad shit in there? Score!

Again, these are black and white choices. There are shades of grey, but they are only going to drive a wedge in your marriage, and cause you great pain. Stay in the marriage and "hold out" that he might change his mind? Even if by some miracle that does happen, what do you do if for some reason your fertility has nose dived? How much will you hate and resent him for making you wait years before trying, for no real reason?

I'm not saying he needs a reason, but let's face it - if your partner is desperate - to the point of tears and heartbreak - for something and you are saying no, it is much easier for the other person to accept if you can give them an actual concrete reason for saying no, rather than just "well....I don't really feel like it..."

I don't know. I just get the impression that he is pussy footing around.

I would have more respect for him if he was saying: "I'm sorry love, but I absolutely, concretely, definitely do not want children. In fact, I have been thinking about getting sterilised, as I know that I don't want my life to involve children of my own. I like being able to hand babies back when they smell or cry. I like being able to travel when and where I please. It's not happening".

At least then he is clear and you know exactly where you stand. Instead he is giving you the

"Oh well, there's no reason really. Maybe.....if it happened, then we could deal with it, but it's not my PREFERENCE, and I wouldn't want to actively TRY to get pregnant....because, y'know....I don't want to settle down yet....".

That's very hogwash.

If you do decide to stay together and forgo your chance of children, I would strongly recommend that you ask him to get sterilised. That way you guys don't need to worry about contraception anymore. If he knows he doesn't want kids, then it should be a huge weight off his mind.

If he doesn't want to get sterilised then I would think long and hard about this relationship. He would basically be saying that he doesn't want children NOW, but might be happy to ditch you for a younger model if he changes his mind in his late forties.

I mean...if he deffo doesn't want kids (to such an extent that having his weeping wife in his arms doesn't make him change his mind - so obviously he is sure about it), but is willing to keep the possibility of it happening in the future....where the fuck does that leave you?

Thank you all for your input. You are all very wise indeed!

I took your arguments (those I agree or relate with) to heart and had a long and honest conversation with DH last night. To cut long story short: HE SAID YES!

Now this is what his reasons not to want a child were (in my understanding, after talking to him):

1. The potential child was just an abstract idea for him, it wasn't as real as for me. I have been doing a lot of thinking for the last 2 years, imagining our life with children, how I would like us to raise them, potential problems and their solutions, sometimes even every time when walking past kids' clothes in shopping windows down to how our children could look like! Se we talked about how we see our future with children in it and he actually quite liked the picture! We talked about finances, work, childcare, travel arrangements, but also about more exciting and emotional things like how much fun we could have together and how great would it be to have them around.
2. He was worried that once we became parents I would expect him to ditch all his artistic activity and focus solely on providing for the family. I explained to him that not only I will be there to provide for us (it's a shared responsibility, just like having children) but also I understand and support his creative needs. I also have a time-consuming hobby which is really important for me and which I don't intend to abandon. We agreed that if one of us needs to spend more time on their hobby (from time to time, not all year round obviously), the other one takes over domestic/children duties. We are also aware that our lives will not be exactly like pre-kids, that there will be different compromises to be made at different stages of our lives. But we want to stay who we are and our extra-curricular activities are a part of us (sorry if it sounds pathetic). He said that he didn't know any parents who wouldn't exchange their life for a more boring one after starting a family (hey, it's his opinion). Well, I gave him many such examples (I just happen to know people who actually achieved more from the professional and personal point of view AFTER they had babies. But I may be biased as my own mother is such an example)
3. There was a number 3 but I cannot remember it right now... will add later

We discussed all the above issues and he was surprised that he actually wanted a child once it became a real 'thing' and we agreed on some principles. As we both have some (stressful) projects to wrap up by the end of the year, we agreed to start ttc at the beginning of next year with a clear head.

Thank you. For taking your time to read, giving me the possibility to wind and all the pieces of advice and information. You are the best!

Pink - his other flat (not a house, it's quite small) was bought by him & his ex. They split up, he moved to the place where we live now (quite far), she moved in another direction, she needed money, so he paid her off and is renting the flat as prices went down and we wouldn't get anything for selling it now while still paying the mortgage. He hopes to sell it in a few years time when the mortgage is paid off the the prices go up (hopefully). It was never an issue as we haven't actively planned to buy our current place until my family kindly offered cash for deposit.

So happy for you OP.

Kids are what it's all about.

Wonderful news OP

I sometimes worry that because of lack of (as many) fertility issues, men just don't think about children in the way we do - they can put off thinking about it.

So good work on getting him to confront a possible reality of children and not just the vague idea of them :)

I think he sounds OK. If he backtracks again in the new year, come back here and talk again. Very happy for you OP.