Damned if I do.....

[Everybodyleaves]

Ok, lawyer has just advised me to cease STBXH alternate w/end access due to many issues pending resolution (hopefully over next few weeks/couple of months). Last resort I'm afraid.

Knowing it would therefore be a while before DCs overnights resumed, earlier today I asked STBXH for details of the camping trip he had mentioned prior to all this blowing up as none had been forthcoming. He had been aware DCs were unlikely to be going yet had been talking about it with them on phone calls this week. It turned out to be starting tomorrow.

I then offered to let DCs go as a) it is a holiday for them with him b) it might be the last overnights for a long while as he can be VERY stubborn and c) thought it would be a nice gesture as aunts/cousins also going too (just found that out today too).

I asked for one condition to be met: that he agreed to return DCs to me when camping trip ended on Thursday (he was originally due to have then for 11 nights). He refused. He has previously not returned DCs to me when due to, hence my asking.

Many angry texts, calls and two confused and upset children later, he is blaming me for them not going.

Why do I even bother trying???

^^ exactly what quite likely said. The back story on this one makes things quite different. The op has been through a horrible time but, three years later, is still using her dc to punish her ex for it. This holiday debacle takes the tbh. Cruel.

Todayisnottheday - you clearly have had an awful experience and strong views. I respect your right to hold those opinions, but don't agree with them.

My lawyer is also a family mediator although we used other mediators when we took that route.

My lawyer has all the backstory. They based their advice on that and my current situation. The rates I have been charged have been the lowest possible so it is not money-driven. They are well known locally for their expertise in this area of law.

"Chatting" isn't an option with a man who used every mediation session to paint me in the worst possible light rather than come to a solution. I did what the mediators asked of me but he ignores it. I refused to pay for the sessions as I spent money I didn't have and got dogs abuse for my troubles. I left in tears three times, the mediator chased me down the street to make sure I was okay to drive home.

I have nothing against his family and we are polite to each other. I am disappointed that their closeness has gone, I didn't (stupidly) realise it was dependant on being with their son. My parents are both dead. Ex told me he had told GM & GD I wasn't going to let them see the DCs, I immediately phoned to put them straight on that, they had no idea what I was on about, took the completely wrong end of the stick started shouting and crying at me. Eventually managed to get message across thanks to his sisters, but the damage was done.

I've only just joined MN on the suggestion of a friend as everyone has decided to withdraw / remain neutral because of how this has played been played out. Ex repeatedly phoned all our friends whenever he felt like it to try to get them to take his side, so they eventually got fed up, as you can understand. Divide and conquer indeed. I was hoping for support and advice, and tbh didn't expect (clearly stupidly again) such terse opinions from complete strangers who don't know the full story.

Again, thanks for all your comments, opinions, support, food for thought, but I've put more here than I intended and I think it's probably best if I focus on my RL rather than MN world for the next few weeks.

P.s. Both still sleep on the floor, and I've never been to court.

Bye

Yes I have had terrible experiences and I have spent years in family courts. None of what you have said changes the fact that denying your dc their holiday with their father is nothing short of cruelty.

Solicitors get paid. They get paid more when relationships are difficult. They get paid lots more if things deteriorate to the point where court is the only option.
Please explain the mechanism by which solicitors get paid more when things are difficult or go to court?

todayisnottheday Then perhaps you could use your experience to advise and support rather than criticise just because it is not what you think should have happened?

Op came here for some support. I think without knowing all the ins and outs of someone else's situation, a lot of projection goes on. She is doing her best as a parent to safeguard her children.

everybody I hope you manage to sort the situation out and also to have some peace of mind and happiness away from someone who has obviously tried / is trying to manipulate / damage you.

I just re-read your comment :

"If he had provided details of the holiday earlier, perhaps something could have been worked out, but he provides no details. I think I have had a total of two short sentences for holiday arrangement this year from him, dates only. He has been told previously that he needs to provide details re destination etc if he wishes to take the kids away"

Why does he have to tell you where he is going? He doesn't have to provide that level of details if he doesn't want to.. he has no obligation to do so. You say he is stubborn, perhaps he is standing his ground against someone trying to control, how, when, if he see his kids. That's really poor.

You, your solicitor are using the children to get the advantage over him - i.e. If he doesn't do as you say then he cannot see his children, they can't stay with their father. That is damaging, that is extremely controlling, that is manipulative. It is good for the children because if they haven't already, it is mums fault.

Just think about what you are doing. If this goes to court it may show you have been unreasonable. Denying access or time with the children will not go down well with the judge.

I did on your last thread. You've upped the ante beyond the pale imo. Tisraining this is an open forum, nobody has to post only in agreement. Supporting poor actions rather than challenging them perpetuates the situation.

denying your dc their holiday with their father is nothing short of cruelty

Not when the father is abusive.

The OP allowed the holiday, but not the children staying at their dad's where they have to sleep on the floor (surely he could give them his bed) and are disturbed enough to have been noticed by the school.

This is not about winning, but making sure the children are sufficiently well looked after.

You'd come across better, OP, though, if on your posts you were more concerned about the children than about how you can't win.
Forget who's on your side or not. Are the children winning or not? That's what's important.

I've only just joined MN on the suggestion of a friend as everyone has decided to withdraw / remain neutral because of how this has played been played out.

So all your friends think you are unreasonable to use deny your children contact with thier father because of your own selfish reasons.

In the excellent words of Donald Fisher - 'If 10 people tell you your ill, lie down'

What evidence that the father is abusive? The word of the op who is demonstrating controlling behaviour and is completely unable to see it as controlling?

The issue at hand the lack of mattresses for the dc. Doesn't everyone agree that this is wrong?

The issue at hand is that the dc have missed their holiday! The sleeping arrangements are wrong. Definitely. However that's a matter for the agencies designed to deal with these things and isn't grounds for a mother to deny children access to their father.

Totally disagree - It is affecting their schooling - Seems the one responsible parent in the relationship needs to make a call and OP made the right one - As for Harry's Dad - What are you on? Get with the real world

The dc need not have missed their holiday had their father either brought them back to their mothers home after the holiday or provided a proper place to sleep.

I would question any parent who prioritised a holiday over basic needs which this father has done.

How will SS know that there is an issue to sort out. OP has already said that she doesn't want to involve them because of her ex's likely reaction. What she is doing is the only recourse she has in a difficult situation.

Op, I'm sure there is much more to this than you are saying right now, but he has provided a bed, a sofa bed.

Firstly you said they wouldn't sleep in it together so one would still be on the floor, then in a more recent post, that neither would sleep in it.

Surely the issue is that the dc won't sleep in the bed provided for them?

My dc (11 & 7) are with my dm atm, sleeping together in a double bed.
If one refused to share and chooses to sleep on the floor then that's their own tough luck, surely?

That reads in more of an arsey way than I had intended, I am genuinely interested.

Wow. Where to start...to not reply to some of the above would surely be taken as agreement/ admittance of "guilt", I suspect...

Carol decker (shame I used to like your music)
So all your friends think you are unreasonable to use deny your children contact with thier father because of your own selfish reasons.
In the excellent words of Donald Fisher - 'If 10 people tell you your ill, lie down.
None of my friends think I am unreasonable. They understand I am in a very difficult situation and have withdrawn on one issue (divorce/separation) because he tried and tried to make them choose a side and they refused to do so. I still see them and get invited to events, holidays, he does not. They speak to both of us but not the same frequency. Take from that what you will.

Lweji.
I tried to let the DCs "win" by making the camping trip an option. Ex would also have "won", in what way have I won??? Your choice of words as "I cannae win!" is just a common phrase used up here to express the feeling of exasperation, not an intention of seeking some kind of victory.
I'm not trying to come across better, I'm trying to explain how it is.

Whereisegg
Didn't read it as being arsey. I never said anywhere that only one slept on the floor, just that they didn't want to sleep in same bed (1 boy, 1 girl and those 3-4 years age gap is a gulf now).
I have never seen the bed, but it is a sofa bed and also the main couch as far as I know so I've no idea how comfortable it is, or not.

As an aside,actually no. I'm not going to type what I just thought as I can see a(nother) can of worms being opened.

Maleficent
Thanks for your understanding. Did I mention he took them on a two week Med cruise last year??? Great priorities.

You're right, I assumed you saying that they won't sleep in it together meant that they took turns or something.

Whereisegg
I guessed that and it would seem sensible, but I know the flat in question. If the sofa bed was open, there wouldn't be any room on the floor for the other child. DCs have now told me that occasionally one of them sleeps on it (while it is still in couch mode) but usually they are on the floor in sleeping bags or with a duvet. It took several months for him to buy it, and I rather assumed it was being used on all nights he had them. I only discovered recently that was not the case.